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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2016 - 01 - 20 - ID#41vwsy
4
Free alternative to KNFB Reader? (self.Blind)
submitted by ThisIsMyBlindAccount
I am trying to find an Android app that would read aloud text seen by the phone camera. So far I have found KNFB Reader but from my understanding, it only gives you 25 transcription before they charge $78. Is there an app out there that's not out to capitalize on our disability?
geoffisblind 3 points 7y ago
>Is there an app out there that's not out to capitalize on our disability?

 

This is the biggest frustration for me about these apps and blind technology in general, so far NVDA is the only shining example of an organization that doesn't do this. Everyone else seems to egregiously take advantage of a market that depends on this technology by hiking up the prices simply because they can. I haven't been able to find a suitable OCR text to speech app on Android as of yet. I knew someone who had a pretty good OCR text to speech app on his iPhone, but that doesn't really help you in this situation. I'm sorry, hopefully someone has an app that works for them, I'd be curious to see if someone has found something.
preetnation 2 points 7y ago
I'm clearly putting myself at risk of getting flamed, but here are my limited thoughts as an app developer myself (we make BlueLight):

Some of these companies charge higher prices because the needs of the market are really unique. A lot of them are building from scratch and have to design with the same rigor as companies like lyft or Google that have much larger markets. The higher prices are to recoup costs when there are smaller absolute numbers of customers.

Ideally, an organization supporting you helps cover this cost and negotiate significant discounts.

To the KNFB reader question, I can't think of one at the moment
fastfinge 3 points 7y ago
Yes, I get that. But the one-time purchase app store model is absolutely terrible for these companies. First off, many blind folks don't have that kind of money up-front, so it strictly limits the market. Secondly, Apple (and I think Google) doesn't allow app developers to charge for upgrades. So once all the blind people who can afford the up-front cost have purchased the app, it means no, or almost no, on-going revenue stream for the company to maintain the app and do future R&D. And that means that eventually the app dies, and I lose the money I spent on it. Personally, I'd much rather that the KNFB app was a monthly subscription, at say $3 a month. In the long-run, they get just as much money from me, and perhaps more. But I don't have to lay out huge amounts of money up-front, and the company gets an on-going sustainable revenue stream to grow and continue the business. As an app developer, do you have any insight as to why KNFB may have chosen not to go this rout? Is there something obvious I'm missing? Because the problems seem so obvious to me I can't believe they haven't thought of them.

Oh, and as an aside, many organizations have a list of vendors they will purchase products from. In general, these are dealers in accessible technology (ATGuys and similar). If the Apple or Android app store isn't on the list of vendors, the agency just won't cover it at all. So this is yet another reason the app store up-front purchase model is a terrible one for KNFB.
preetnation 2 points 7y ago
I don't have a good answer for why KNFB doesn't use an ongoing subscription other than it was unproven for them. Subscriptions in-app, for non gaming products, are a pretty new concept. HBO and Netflix have really popularized it in the past 6 months. Don't be surprised if more of the services you see start to change in that direction (today, 7 of top 100 grossing iOS apps use a free trial mechanism - up from probably 1 a year ago)

That's a really interesting note about vendors that they will buy from! How would Apple or Google get on that list? That would benefit a lot of people
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
It usually depends on the state or province. Unfortunately, there's no federal regulations about this as far as I'm aware, making doing business with disability agencies really patchwork. I don't think Google or Apple are going to fill out different paperwork for every state, just to sell a few more copies of KNFB, sadly. Researching this a bit more, apparently the way it works now is the agency buys from an approved vendor at a mark-up, and then the vendor buys the app for the user as a gift via the gift options in the app store. Now I wish I hadn't asked around; that's just depressing.
geoffisblind 2 points 7y ago
Eh flaming isn't really my thing :) It's good to get different opinions and insights, especially from someone within app development. The problem is that it ends up being a lose, lose situation for everyone involved when these things are so expensive. For those that have access to state funding and non-profits, getting technology isn't so hard, it's super easy to request that an organization with funds set aside for this to fork over thousands of dollars for technology. Unfortunately there are a lot of people without support systems to help, I was just commenting in another thread about that very problem. This means that the blind individual has to go without the tools necessary to function and the company doesn't get anything.

 

I do get that it is a niche market and that companies have overhead. I bet it's like this wheelchairs, FM loops for the deaf, and really any other product for those with disabilities, but I go through some of the prices on different products and I can't help but think there has to be some kind of middle ground. I do like what /u/fastfinge said about a monthly subscription, that feels like a good first step that keeps technology within reach of those who don't have all of the support they need while making sure companies are getting paid. However I don't think it's a perfect solution, I for one don't like paying for subscriptions, and I know I'm not alone. I think a lot more thought has to go into this and it starts with better support systems for the blind and visually impaired community, but I think that the manufacturers and developers are also going to have to make a concerted effort to try to make their prices more reasonable. NVaccess is able to maintain one of the most respected screen readers for free, and I'm not saying that's a viable option for every company, but it is something to be considered when talking about the state of inflated prices in the blind/ low vision technology market.
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
They don't maintain it for free. Personally I donate $38 a month to NV-Access. And seeing as they're the only reason I have any income at all, it could be argued that I should be donating a lot more. Unfortunately, with the state of blind employment as it is, relying on donations just isn't a viable solution for NVDA long-term though. Programmers have to eat! And NVDA isn't like Facebook or Twitter, who can just sell ads. Neither is it like Linux; nobody is going to employ developers to work full-time on NVDA the way some hardware makers employ developers to work full-time on the Linux kernel. I don't know what the solution is going forward, but I know it isn't "everything is free forever".
geoffisblind 2 points 7y ago
That's a fair point, but I think the fact that they've made it this far by offering it for free is a testament to what can be done. I know it isn't viable for everyone, and it may not even be viable for NVaccess in the long run, but it's something to be considered when looking at companies that do inflate the prices. I also don't doubt that some of these companies are fully aware of the cornered market they have. Like I said, there isn't really a perfect solution, but a balance has to be struck because a lot of this stuff is just out of reach.
preetnation 1 points 7y ago
Something to look forward to - the cost of building products is getting much cheaper. 15 years ago it took $1M to have the servers to launch a digital service. Today that's not even $1000.

In turn, that should mean that designers realize that there is a significant value to building products for underserved segments. We could say that the blind community is 'niche', but it's still millions of people!

Can you tell me more about NVaccess?
geoffisblind 1 points 7y ago
That is a good point, and I do hope that more companies recognize that potential. I'm not an expert on the organization but from what I know they are based in Australia. They are well known for making $1, which stands for Non Visual Desktop Access. NVDA is a screen reader and it is different others like Freedom Scientific's JAWS because it is free and open source. This allows the broader blind community that can't spend $1,000+ to have access to a screen reader. I haven't even bothered with JAWS because I like NVDA as it is. Anyways, that's about all I know about the organization, they have tons of information about the project and the story behind it on their site.
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