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We are developing a visual prosthetic for the blind: how would it be most useful? (self.Blind)
submitted by Brown_Vis_Prosthetic
We are a team of researchers at Brown University developing a prosthetic device to assist people who are blind or have low vision. Current technology can provide only a very low resolution image using brain stimulation, so this should be considered an assistive device rather than a restoration of normal vision. That said, we believe it could useful for day-to-day tasks. To focus our efforts, our question is, what daily activities are challenging and perhaps not readily handled with blindness techniques or existing assistive technologies? Are there tasks or situations that are frustrating or embarrassing that a little visual input could help with? Are there particular objects that you often wish you could locate visually, or difficult tasks that could be made easier with a device like this?
A few examples of things our device might do are listed below:
Show the user where a door handle or car door handle is
Locate text (on signs, posters, et cetera) and read it aloud to the user via an earpiece
Determine the distance of an obstacle in front of the user
Help the user sort laundry into lights and darks
Help the user to locate objects that have been dropped on the floor
We would be extremely grateful for any suggestions or ideas you might have, or any feedback about the functions we are considering. Thank you.
TLDR: What are some everyday tasks that you find especially challenging as a blind person? If you could find specific objects or perceive specific features of your surroundings using a low-resolution visual prosthetic, what would you want to be able to see?
A few examples of things our device might do are listed below:
Show the user where a door handle or car door handle is
Locate text (on signs, posters, et cetera) and read it aloud to the user via an earpiece
Determine the distance of an obstacle in front of the user
Help the user sort laundry into lights and darks
Help the user to locate objects that have been dropped on the floor
We would be extremely grateful for any suggestions or ideas you might have, or any feedback about the functions we are considering. Thank you.
TLDR: What are some everyday tasks that you find especially challenging as a blind person? If you could find specific objects or perceive specific features of your surroundings using a low-resolution visual prosthetic, what would you want to be able to see?
romanj35 3 points 7y ago
For the newly blind not used to living so, I'd say relearning tasks. It isn't just sorting lights fromd darks, it's learning the knobs on the washer/dryer and their settings.
The same goes for cooking. From turning the stove burners on, to judging the readiness of the prepared food. At least thats a problem for me.
I'd like to not have to be required to memorize tv channels. You'd think that with the tech available across the world, a simple dvr box could read aloud channels and what's on them.
I'd like some sort of way-point setup using G. P. S. That way I can set my own routes to constant places, and incorperate the tech you've described so that if something like a parked vehicle the machine could warn me ahead using device detection.
More object/word character recognition would be useful. I don't always like picking up my phone and taking a picture to turn a restraunt menu into a document so the phone could read it aloud to me. Signs are one thing. But words are everywhere.
I hoed this helped you some.
The same goes for cooking. From turning the stove burners on, to judging the readiness of the prepared food. At least thats a problem for me.
I'd like to not have to be required to memorize tv channels. You'd think that with the tech available across the world, a simple dvr box could read aloud channels and what's on them.
I'd like some sort of way-point setup using G. P. S. That way I can set my own routes to constant places, and incorperate the tech you've described so that if something like a parked vehicle the machine could warn me ahead using device detection.
More object/word character recognition would be useful. I don't always like picking up my phone and taking a picture to turn a restraunt menu into a document so the phone could read it aloud to me. Signs are one thing. But words are everywhere.
I hoed this helped you some.
[deleted] 1 points 7y ago
A state Commission for the Blind office can hook you up with an Independent Living teacher who will come to your house. Mine helped me with putting texture bumps on appliances controls and learning safe cooking techniques.
For navigation I use Google Maps but there are drawbacks. I require a sighted person to set up the best routes because I cannot tell which streets have sidewalks, and if I overshoot the chosen route by mistake, it can automatically continue me along an alternate route instead of correcting the chosen one. But it's reliable about telling me when to turn, and the distance.
For navigation I use Google Maps but there are drawbacks. I require a sighted person to set up the best routes because I cannot tell which streets have sidewalks, and if I overshoot the chosen route by mistake, it can automatically continue me along an alternate route instead of correcting the chosen one. But it's reliable about telling me when to turn, and the distance.
Brown_Vis_Prosthetic [OP] 1 points 7y ago
Thank you so much for sharing your ideas! This is extremely helpful. About the GPS system you described, we are certainly thinking about navigation challenges like obstacle detection. We also have a personal connection with a company that makes GPS navigation systems for blind users - here's the link if you'd like to check it out:
[Sendero GPS System]
(http://www.senderogroup.com/about/about.htm)
Thanks again!
[Sendero GPS System]
(http://www.senderogroup.com/about/about.htm)
Thanks again!
Southpaw5000 2 points 7y ago
Ok so I have a few thoughts here. I love that this sort of thing is being worked on and the possibilities really are endless as long as it works well. I'm totally blind so honestly any information is usually useful. Even something as seemingly simple as locating doorways would be great. I was recently at a VA hospital and had one hell of a time navigating the maze and finding exactly what I was looking for. Having something that would let me locate doorways without having to hit them with a cane would be great. It would make following instructions like "It's the third door on the right" so much easier.
At the same time being able to find and read the info signs located in a place like that would be awesome as well. They have signs everywhere that say where things are located but again having no vision and therefore no clue where to look I often have to resort to just finding someone then asking them for directions.
I have always loved rock climbing and even after losing my vision it's something I continue to do. I can imagine what it would be like to be able to just look up and see the next hand or foot hold again without having to sweep an appendage around searching for it like a mine sweeper.
The city I live in has good public transportation but the bus sign posts are right next to the street and unless I already know where it is there's no way I'd be able to find one so again having something that would be able to help with that would be useful even if it just made a beep or chime when I was near it.
That brings to mind street crossings. While I can do it and rarely have issues having a system I could trust to guide me strait across the street would be amazing! Walking in a strait line can be a pain in the rear and any help would be an improvement.
Since I'm just rattling off ideas, getting info on other people and how close I am like in a mall would be great. If I could tell where they were walking or standing I'd be able to avoid cracking ankles with my cane in crowded places. Most of these things really aren't major problems but even small bits of info would be extremely useful.
The ideas you have listed already sound great but I think one of the biggest issues I've experienced with vision assist devices is the lack of actual usefulness. I was able to spend six months using the Brain Port device and while it sounds super in reality it was cumbersome and the effort it took to figure out what it was displaying made the whole thing more work than it was worth. I was able to sort laundry with it but there were wires everywhere and the battery didn't last very long so once I was done with the clothes I'd have to put it on the charger for an hour just to be able to use it on something else. At the same time the refresh rate was so slow that even a person walking past my line of vision would just confuse it. I could tell that something just happened but it wasn't good enough to even be able to figure out which direction the person was going.
I love hearing ideas like this and I always try to get involved wherever I can but so far I haven't found anything that's worth the time to use. The Orcam is another device that comes to mind. Sounds great when you read about it but when you try it out it's just not as useful as they make it sound. Even useful things like product recognition take too long, not to mention that you have to add products on your own and it can only remember 100 before the storage is full.
I'm sure that with time and projects like these it will get figured out which is why I love hearing ideas like this. Thanks to all of you for the work you're doing! Please keep it up!
At the same time being able to find and read the info signs located in a place like that would be awesome as well. They have signs everywhere that say where things are located but again having no vision and therefore no clue where to look I often have to resort to just finding someone then asking them for directions.
I have always loved rock climbing and even after losing my vision it's something I continue to do. I can imagine what it would be like to be able to just look up and see the next hand or foot hold again without having to sweep an appendage around searching for it like a mine sweeper.
The city I live in has good public transportation but the bus sign posts are right next to the street and unless I already know where it is there's no way I'd be able to find one so again having something that would be able to help with that would be useful even if it just made a beep or chime when I was near it.
That brings to mind street crossings. While I can do it and rarely have issues having a system I could trust to guide me strait across the street would be amazing! Walking in a strait line can be a pain in the rear and any help would be an improvement.
Since I'm just rattling off ideas, getting info on other people and how close I am like in a mall would be great. If I could tell where they were walking or standing I'd be able to avoid cracking ankles with my cane in crowded places. Most of these things really aren't major problems but even small bits of info would be extremely useful.
The ideas you have listed already sound great but I think one of the biggest issues I've experienced with vision assist devices is the lack of actual usefulness. I was able to spend six months using the Brain Port device and while it sounds super in reality it was cumbersome and the effort it took to figure out what it was displaying made the whole thing more work than it was worth. I was able to sort laundry with it but there were wires everywhere and the battery didn't last very long so once I was done with the clothes I'd have to put it on the charger for an hour just to be able to use it on something else. At the same time the refresh rate was so slow that even a person walking past my line of vision would just confuse it. I could tell that something just happened but it wasn't good enough to even be able to figure out which direction the person was going.
I love hearing ideas like this and I always try to get involved wherever I can but so far I haven't found anything that's worth the time to use. The Orcam is another device that comes to mind. Sounds great when you read about it but when you try it out it's just not as useful as they make it sound. Even useful things like product recognition take too long, not to mention that you have to add products on your own and it can only remember 100 before the storage is full.
I'm sure that with time and projects like these it will get figured out which is why I love hearing ideas like this. Thanks to all of you for the work you're doing! Please keep it up!
Brown_Vis_Prosthetic [OP] 1 points 7y ago
Wow, thank you for giving us so much thoughtful feedback and so many ideas! You've given us a lot to think about as we move forward.
I am intrigued by what you said about rock climbing - and impressed to hear that you have kept it up - that's really awesome.
It sounds like part of the key with these devices is that they have to be accurate and fast enough to be reliable and worth the time to learn how to use them. I'm very curious about your experiences with Orcam and Brain Port. One of the challenges in designing these devices that detect objects, people, text etc. is balancing the sensitivity: if it's too sensitive, it might miss something, but if its more sensitive it tends to give more false positives because of noise and other objects in the image. If you don't mind me asking, when using those other devices, did you find either of these two problems particularly frustrating, in addition to the device being slow, needing frequent charging etc.? What I mean is, did you find it to be more of a problem when the device gave a signal when it wasn't appropriate, or when it didn't give a signal when it should have?
Thank you again and all the best.
I am intrigued by what you said about rock climbing - and impressed to hear that you have kept it up - that's really awesome.
It sounds like part of the key with these devices is that they have to be accurate and fast enough to be reliable and worth the time to learn how to use them. I'm very curious about your experiences with Orcam and Brain Port. One of the challenges in designing these devices that detect objects, people, text etc. is balancing the sensitivity: if it's too sensitive, it might miss something, but if its more sensitive it tends to give more false positives because of noise and other objects in the image. If you don't mind me asking, when using those other devices, did you find either of these two problems particularly frustrating, in addition to the device being slow, needing frequent charging etc.? What I mean is, did you find it to be more of a problem when the device gave a signal when it wasn't appropriate, or when it didn't give a signal when it should have?
Thank you again and all the best.
[deleted] 1 points 7y ago
Locating dropped or misplaced objects is my biggest frustration. I have some residual vision, but when my keys go missing I have to do a methodical grid search on hands and knees to locate them.
I use Google Map with voice direction to navigate walking around the city, but once inside an unfamiliar building I have to rely on human assistance to find offices and locate elevators, stairs, restrooms, exits, etc.
Thank you for asking what we need, and for developing useful tech for the blind. A lot of apps and gadgets seem overly complicated and can feel like they were designed based on what sighted people imagine blind users want.
I use Google Map with voice direction to navigate walking around the city, but once inside an unfamiliar building I have to rely on human assistance to find offices and locate elevators, stairs, restrooms, exits, etc.
Thank you for asking what we need, and for developing useful tech for the blind. A lot of apps and gadgets seem overly complicated and can feel like they were designed based on what sighted people imagine blind users want.
Brown_Vis_Prosthetic [OP] 2 points 7y ago
These are some really interesting points - thank you very much for sharing. I hadn't considered that indoor navigation might be even more challenging in some cases than outdoor with the advent of technology like google maps.
I'm touched by what you said - thank you. We feel that this kind of communication is a really important part of what we're doing.
I'm touched by what you said - thank you. We feel that this kind of communication is a really important part of what we're doing.
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