Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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A programmer with some questions (self.Blind)
submitted by U5efull
Good Afternoon r/blind, first I would like to introduce myself. I am a programmer who is moving from back end development (the nuts and bolts of programs) to front end development (the stuff the user interacts with). One of my passions is to always make my front ends as accessible as possible while still maintaining a sophisticated and usable space for those without physical impairments.
Can you give me examples of sites that do a really good job of working with screen readers as well as sites that do not?
Also, I noticed a lack of really good keyboards for those folks with low vision. Specifically I was reading about incompatibilities with Windows 10 and was curious what your preferred devices are?
Can you give me information on specific software you use to read the web, and also any challenges you encounter?
One resource I have been using to read up on accessibility is this:
http://www.508checker.com/
My goal is to begin working on the bootstrap accessibility plugin on github in a few weeks. I also have a keen interest in creating device drivers for nonstandard things like keyboards and mice for those with motor function or visual impairment, especially older models that cost large sums of money that have become outdated due to operating system upgrades.
Can you give me examples of sites that do a really good job of working with screen readers as well as sites that do not?
Also, I noticed a lack of really good keyboards for those folks with low vision. Specifically I was reading about incompatibilities with Windows 10 and was curious what your preferred devices are?
Can you give me information on specific software you use to read the web, and also any challenges you encounter?
One resource I have been using to read up on accessibility is this:
http://www.508checker.com/
My goal is to begin working on the bootstrap accessibility plugin on github in a few weeks. I also have a keen interest in creating device drivers for nonstandard things like keyboards and mice for those with motor function or visual impairment, especially older models that cost large sums of money that have become outdated due to operating system upgrades.
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
For testing, your best bet is $1. It's up to date, follows all the standards correctly, and is free. It's been my main screen-reader for 10 years, and I would never go back to the expensive commercial alternatives.
As for web accessibility, Drupal is doing absolutely incredible things there. Not only does the Drupal CMS create accessible content by default, but they've made the administration and content creation portions of the system completely accessible, as well. It happens far too often that developers make the public content accessible, but apparently assume that no blind person will ever work at that company, or no blind people ever want to generate there own content. Wordpress used to suffer from this problem: it could make accessible blogs, but the administration and posting sections used to have huge access issues. Over the last year or so, though, they've made huge strides in fixing them. However, I still find it far easier to picture a Drupal theme in my head, and it seems to be better at not making ugly websites when the person responsible for choosing themes and layout is totally blind. But that could just be because I've had more experience with it.
As for web accessibility, Drupal is doing absolutely incredible things there. Not only does the Drupal CMS create accessible content by default, but they've made the administration and content creation portions of the system completely accessible, as well. It happens far too often that developers make the public content accessible, but apparently assume that no blind person will ever work at that company, or no blind people ever want to generate there own content. Wordpress used to suffer from this problem: it could make accessible blogs, but the administration and posting sections used to have huge access issues. Over the last year or so, though, they've made huge strides in fixing them. However, I still find it far easier to picture a Drupal theme in my head, and it seems to be better at not making ugly websites when the person responsible for choosing themes and layout is totally blind. But that could just be because I've had more experience with it.
U5efull [OP] 2 points 7y ago
I am getting NVDA right now. When surfing do you use programmed keys (hotkeys) a lot or do you just use Tab and your arrow keys to get around?
When you run into bootstrap enabled sites, what are some annoyances you run into all the time?
Thanks for all your help!
When you run into bootstrap enabled sites, what are some annoyances you run into all the time?
Thanks for all your help!
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
I use hotkeys constantly. The problem with using tab is that often, site authors don't label form controls properly, so when you tab to them you just hear something unhelpful like "edit". Also, many website authors do strange things with the tab order on a page, so you can never trust that you've been through the entire page while tabbing. However, on pages I trust to be correct (GMail, for example) I do use the tab key all the time. Also, Google has created many custom hotkeys that work in GMail, and seeing as I use GMail every day, I use Google's recommended hotkeys over the ones NVDA provides. I only use the arrow keys the first time I'm exploring a website, and often not even then. For example, if I'm reading a news article, the first thing I'll try is h to jump to the next heading, in hopes the author has made the headline a heading of some kind. Arrowing through everything on a web page is just far too clunky and slow.
I'm really not generally aware of what websites use bootstrap, so I couldn't really answer that question. The only JavaScript library that is annoying enough that I'm aware of it is CKEditor. I always turn off rich text editors in every website that lets me, because I find the hundreds of formatting buttons just get in the way. Plus, NVDA used to have problems reading back any text typed into JavaScript edit fields. However, over the past year, I haven't noticed the problem as frequently. Either sites are using different controls these days, or CKEditor has been fixed, or I just turn off fancy editors so reflexively I don't even remember doing it.
Yup. Apparently CKEditor 4 fixed all of the accessibility problems. I'll leave the last paragraph in tact, though. It highlights one of the problems with making accessibility fixes: if a user tried something 2 years ago and it didn't work, the user is going to assume it still doesn't work. Websites are good at promoting there own fixes to users, but if a library developer fixes something, I'm not sure how we'd ever find out.
I'm really not generally aware of what websites use bootstrap, so I couldn't really answer that question. The only JavaScript library that is annoying enough that I'm aware of it is CKEditor. I always turn off rich text editors in every website that lets me, because I find the hundreds of formatting buttons just get in the way. Plus, NVDA used to have problems reading back any text typed into JavaScript edit fields. However, over the past year, I haven't noticed the problem as frequently. Either sites are using different controls these days, or CKEditor has been fixed, or I just turn off fancy editors so reflexively I don't even remember doing it.
Yup. Apparently CKEditor 4 fixed all of the accessibility problems. I'll leave the last paragraph in tact, though. It highlights one of the problems with making accessibility fixes: if a user tried something 2 years ago and it didn't work, the user is going to assume it still doesn't work. Websites are good at promoting there own fixes to users, but if a library developer fixes something, I'm not sure how we'd ever find out.
[deleted] 1 points 7y ago
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U5efull [OP] 2 points 7y ago
This is all great information. What color contrasts work best for you? Would you like the option of a switch at the top of a browser for low vision that would change the colors and fonts to make them easier to read?
Thanks!
Thanks!
[deleted] 2 points 7y ago
[deleted]
U5efull [OP] 1 points 7y ago
A low vision switch would be easy to code, it could be a replacement CSS that adjusts colors, button depth and some font sizing to make it better to read.
What are good high contrast colors you prefer? I saw that Zoomtext does a yellowish orange with a black background for their keys, but is this a good scheme? Also, is it easier to read light color text on a dark background, or dark color text on a light background?
As for adobe image scans, some people just want to watch the world burn.
thanks a bunch
What are good high contrast colors you prefer? I saw that Zoomtext does a yellowish orange with a black background for their keys, but is this a good scheme? Also, is it easier to read light color text on a dark background, or dark color text on a light background?
As for adobe image scans, some people just want to watch the world burn.
thanks a bunch
[deleted] 2 points 7y ago
[deleted]
thatsnotgneiss 1 points 7y ago
I am an information systems student. and my passion is accessible UX. I am also low vision. Feel free to ask me almost anything.
U5efull [OP] 1 points 7y ago
Can you give me information on specific software you use to read the web, and also any challenges you encounter?
thanks!
thanks!
thatsnotgneiss 2 points 7y ago
I use MAGic with voice for my computer and tablet (surface pro) and the built in accessibility features on my IPhone.
My biggest complaint is websites that restrict zooming in or text scaling. That is 99% of my web browsing problems because if I can make something 22 pt font, I can see it unaided most of the time.
My other big issue is sites that have any kind of auto play media. It makes it hard to navigate by voice and trying to figure out how to stop it can be. A nightmare.
My biggest complaint is websites that restrict zooming in or text scaling. That is 99% of my web browsing problems because if I can make something 22 pt font, I can see it unaided most of the time.
My other big issue is sites that have any kind of auto play media. It makes it hard to navigate by voice and trying to figure out how to stop it can be. A nightmare.
U5efull [OP] 1 points 7y ago
I like this information.
What web browser are you using? I know there are chrome extensions that can help kill autoplay items, but what about an extension that kills audio on web pages for you so it doesn't override your screenreader?
What web browser are you using? I know there are chrome extensions that can help kill autoplay items, but what about an extension that kills audio on web pages for you so it doesn't override your screenreader?
thatsnotgneiss 2 points 7y ago
I use Firefox primarily. I have those extensions but it can still be a problem on computers I can't install things on like work or school.
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