Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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I want to help a buddy move from DOS to Windows and get him on the Internet. (self.Blind)
submitted by xilplaxim
I have a friend who I want to get on the internet. He currently uses a very old DOS computer, via keyboard only, with an old hardware DECTalk. He mainly uses word perfect 5.1. He also has an open book scanner. He seems to want to get a desktop as opposed to a laptop. My preliminary research leads me to believe he should get a Windows computer with the NVDA screenreader. My thought is that he might as well start on Windows 10, unless there is some reason not to.
I have several questions that I will just start listing. What hardware specs should he look for, other than being able to run Windows 10? Is there a brand of computer he should consider over any other? My thought here is in regards to brands that are more thoughtful about accessibility. Will any keyboard get him going or should he get something like a mechanical keyboard? I think he has an old IBM model M right now. What headphones with a mic should he get, with an emphasis on ease of use? Will any mouse do or is there one that has better accessibility features? Is there anything else hardware or software I should consider?
Thanks, any help is greatly appreciated.
I have several questions that I will just start listing. What hardware specs should he look for, other than being able to run Windows 10? Is there a brand of computer he should consider over any other? My thought here is in regards to brands that are more thoughtful about accessibility. Will any keyboard get him going or should he get something like a mechanical keyboard? I think he has an old IBM model M right now. What headphones with a mic should he get, with an emphasis on ease of use? Will any mouse do or is there one that has better accessibility features? Is there anything else hardware or software I should consider?
Thanks, any help is greatly appreciated.
fastfinge 3 points 7y ago
This is just a thought. If he's been using the command line for his entire life, perhaps he would be happier moving to $1. I wouldn't normally recommend Linux to new users, but I'm thinking perhaps it's closer to the command line concepts he's already familiar with.
xilplaxim [OP] 1 points 7y ago
That was my original thought. Being an emacs user I had planned on trying to get an emacs environment setup that he could do most anything in. Web browsing in emacs is not great though. Also, from some of the information I have read, I got the impression that browsing the web was more seamless on windows accessibility wise. I will be his tech support. Even though I use both Windows and Linux, I think supporting him on Windows will be easier. While the learning curve will be higher, he has the drive to tackle anything, and I think would be better off in the end with whatever environment is best once conquered. Also, with the announcement that Windows 10 will be able to run a form of Ubuntu with apt-get and the gnu-utils, it seems that the command line gap may be about to narrow some. Having said all that, if you still think Linux is a better choice I would like to hear more.
fastfinge 2 points 7y ago
Yes, I definitely agree that browsing on Windows with NVDA and Firefox is superior to any other option out there. When I suggested Linux, I thought he wanted a familiar environment to do the same things he's already doing. If he's willing to re-learn everything anyway, Windows is a better solution in the end.
As for a mouse, does he have enough vision to use it? I don't have one at all, myself. If he has no vision at all, the only place a mouse will do anything for him is in some relatively obscure audio games.
For a headset, I'm using the Turtle Beach Z300. However, this is probably way overkill! I use it because it can pair with my phone via bluetooth, and my computer via USB, and play the audio from both devices at the same time. This is so useful when I'm on a phone call and need to check something quickly on the computer. However, I do recommend Turtle Beach products. They're usually pretty accessible, with voice prompts when they're paired, when the battery is low or charged, and audio feedback when the mic is muted and unmuted. You might look into one of their cheaper wireless options. When you're blind, wireless is even more useful than it is to sighted people! I can start my screen-reader reading a long email or web page, and get up and go do something else; I don't need to be anywhere near the screen. In fact, if you get him a good wireless keyboard too, he gets some of the advantages of a laptop, with all the advantages of a desktop! Most wireless keyboards and headsets have a range of two or three hundred feet, making using the computer in another room perfectly possible when you don't need to see the monitor. I'd recommend one of the various Logitech wireless keyboards, as they seem to have the least lag.
As for brand of computer, it really doesn't matter. When you're setting it up for him, the best thing you can do is format the drive and install Windows from scratch. Every computer maker fills the machine with inaccessible crapware and ads. So just get whatever's in his price range and wipe it.
As for a mouse, does he have enough vision to use it? I don't have one at all, myself. If he has no vision at all, the only place a mouse will do anything for him is in some relatively obscure audio games.
For a headset, I'm using the Turtle Beach Z300. However, this is probably way overkill! I use it because it can pair with my phone via bluetooth, and my computer via USB, and play the audio from both devices at the same time. This is so useful when I'm on a phone call and need to check something quickly on the computer. However, I do recommend Turtle Beach products. They're usually pretty accessible, with voice prompts when they're paired, when the battery is low or charged, and audio feedback when the mic is muted and unmuted. You might look into one of their cheaper wireless options. When you're blind, wireless is even more useful than it is to sighted people! I can start my screen-reader reading a long email or web page, and get up and go do something else; I don't need to be anywhere near the screen. In fact, if you get him a good wireless keyboard too, he gets some of the advantages of a laptop, with all the advantages of a desktop! Most wireless keyboards and headsets have a range of two or three hundred feet, making using the computer in another room perfectly possible when you don't need to see the monitor. I'd recommend one of the various Logitech wireless keyboards, as they seem to have the least lag.
As for brand of computer, it really doesn't matter. When you're setting it up for him, the best thing you can do is format the drive and install Windows from scratch. Every computer maker fills the machine with inaccessible crapware and ads. So just get whatever's in his price range and wipe it.
xilplaxim [OP] 1 points 7y ago
That's really helpful, thank you. I had read that you get audio queues when moving the mouse around but wasn't sure how that would work. While he has some vision, it is not enough for a mouse to be useful from what you are saying. Your point about a wireless headset and keyboard makes a lot of sense, so I will make sure that is what he gets.
Do you have any recommendation on antivirus software and firefox plugins? My biggest concerns with having him on Windows are viruses and spyware. I personally use firefox with noscript, privacy badger, and ublock origin. I'm always leery to setup noscipt for anyone but myself as it is a constant challenge to get new sites to run properly, but I figure an adblocker is a minimum security requirement seeing as there are so many malicious ads out there.
Right now he mostly uses word perfect 5.1; where he keeps phone numbers, addresses, notes, and various other documents. Do you have any recommendations on software to replace that functionality? It would be nice if google's web software would work for him, such as google docs and sheets--but if something like Microsoft office is more accessible that would probably be the way to go. Since everything is going to be new to him he might as well start with whatever is best in the end.
Thanks again, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
Do you have any recommendation on antivirus software and firefox plugins? My biggest concerns with having him on Windows are viruses and spyware. I personally use firefox with noscript, privacy badger, and ublock origin. I'm always leery to setup noscipt for anyone but myself as it is a constant challenge to get new sites to run properly, but I figure an adblocker is a minimum security requirement seeing as there are so many malicious ads out there.
Right now he mostly uses word perfect 5.1; where he keeps phone numbers, addresses, notes, and various other documents. Do you have any recommendations on software to replace that functionality? It would be nice if google's web software would work for him, such as google docs and sheets--but if something like Microsoft office is more accessible that would probably be the way to go. Since everything is going to be new to him he might as well start with whatever is best in the end.
Thanks again, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
fastfinge 3 points 7y ago
Yes, you can get audio queues when moving the mouse around. It plays a beep, where left to right panning represents left to right position on the screen, pitch represents up and down, and loudness represents brightness of the mouse pointer. The feature is turned off by default, though, and I have never ever used it. I guess you could memorize the positions of icons and click them, but why on earth would you? Maybe for an app without keyboard access, I guess. But I think I'd find a different app to use.
Ad blocking is not only good for security, it's also a big accessibility win. Getting rid of ads that open windows, move the focus, play loud noises without warning, show bouncing blinking animated images, etc, makes everything so much easier for screen-readers. I also use UBlock origin for that. The only catch is you need to whitelist facebook if he's going to use it. UBlock blocks some JavaScript that facebook uses to make accessibility improvements.
Another addon I run is $1. It makes accessibility improvements to popular websites like Reddit, Youtube, and fixes common access problems found on many sites. Full disclosure: I'm involved with testing and development for them.
For getting past CAPTCHAs, I have the best luck with $1. But if he's knew to the web, he might not need that for a while.
I also use 1password, Down Them All, Video Download Helper, Grease Monkey, and Chatzilla. But I don't think those are things he needs until he wants something that does those things, if that makes sense. And I don't recommend noscript for anyone. I'd consider myself an expert user, and even I don't have time to consider the security implications of every single JavaScript file on every single page.
As for antivirus, I don't run one on Windows 10. I find that they work really poorly with screen-readers. Because the virus checker wants to make sure a virus can't click past its warnings, virus scanners often disable screen-reader access to all of there warnings and dialogues completely. Because anything a screen-reader can do, any other automated program could do. What I do is keep UAC on the highest security setting, and disable running unsigned executables. If NVDA was installed as administrator, it can read the UAC prompts. Then just train him not to click "yes" unless he understands why he should.
As for word processing, yes, Google Docs works fine. But I personally prefer Libre Office. I suspect this is because at 28, I'm already old and cranky and want these darn kids with there web apps to get off of my lawn! Back when I was young, an office suite was a huge program with a hundred million features that nobody understood, that takes 2 or 3 minutes to launch! Libre Office continues in that tradition, the way God intended! LOL. Seriously though, I just don't feel comfortable with browser based word processing, and I can't clearly articulate why.
GMail eventually did convince me to give up Mozilla Thunderbird for webmail, and I've been fine with that for 3 years or so. And Docs is perfectly accessible, just like GMail. But...but...I DON'T LIKE IT! I just don't want to do that in the browser.
Another app I highly recommend is $1. When the installation asks you, select "simple layout", and it will work perfectly. It's the best audio player, ever, hands down. It's much faster than iTunes, and much more accessible. It can rip CDs with the right components, it can play formats like flac, and it's just all around a joy to use. If he wants to play videos and things too, $1 can be made accessible, and is the best media center option available.
If he wants to read ebooks, assuming you don't have philosophical objections to paying for software, $1 is a good option. Full support for Epub and PDF, and books from Bookshare. And for books with DRM, $1 is the accessible, free way to crack them.
If he ever needs it, $1 is the most accessible way to deal with zip files.
If he ever wants it, the Twitter client I prefer is $1.
And I think that covers all the software I use regularly.
Ad blocking is not only good for security, it's also a big accessibility win. Getting rid of ads that open windows, move the focus, play loud noises without warning, show bouncing blinking animated images, etc, makes everything so much easier for screen-readers. I also use UBlock origin for that. The only catch is you need to whitelist facebook if he's going to use it. UBlock blocks some JavaScript that facebook uses to make accessibility improvements.
Another addon I run is $1. It makes accessibility improvements to popular websites like Reddit, Youtube, and fixes common access problems found on many sites. Full disclosure: I'm involved with testing and development for them.
For getting past CAPTCHAs, I have the best luck with $1. But if he's knew to the web, he might not need that for a while.
I also use 1password, Down Them All, Video Download Helper, Grease Monkey, and Chatzilla. But I don't think those are things he needs until he wants something that does those things, if that makes sense. And I don't recommend noscript for anyone. I'd consider myself an expert user, and even I don't have time to consider the security implications of every single JavaScript file on every single page.
As for antivirus, I don't run one on Windows 10. I find that they work really poorly with screen-readers. Because the virus checker wants to make sure a virus can't click past its warnings, virus scanners often disable screen-reader access to all of there warnings and dialogues completely. Because anything a screen-reader can do, any other automated program could do. What I do is keep UAC on the highest security setting, and disable running unsigned executables. If NVDA was installed as administrator, it can read the UAC prompts. Then just train him not to click "yes" unless he understands why he should.
As for word processing, yes, Google Docs works fine. But I personally prefer Libre Office. I suspect this is because at 28, I'm already old and cranky and want these darn kids with there web apps to get off of my lawn! Back when I was young, an office suite was a huge program with a hundred million features that nobody understood, that takes 2 or 3 minutes to launch! Libre Office continues in that tradition, the way God intended! LOL. Seriously though, I just don't feel comfortable with browser based word processing, and I can't clearly articulate why.
GMail eventually did convince me to give up Mozilla Thunderbird for webmail, and I've been fine with that for 3 years or so. And Docs is perfectly accessible, just like GMail. But...but...I DON'T LIKE IT! I just don't want to do that in the browser.
Another app I highly recommend is $1. When the installation asks you, select "simple layout", and it will work perfectly. It's the best audio player, ever, hands down. It's much faster than iTunes, and much more accessible. It can rip CDs with the right components, it can play formats like flac, and it's just all around a joy to use. If he wants to play videos and things too, $1 can be made accessible, and is the best media center option available.
If he wants to read ebooks, assuming you don't have philosophical objections to paying for software, $1 is a good option. Full support for Epub and PDF, and books from Bookshare. And for books with DRM, $1 is the accessible, free way to crack them.
If he ever needs it, $1 is the most accessible way to deal with zip files.
If he ever wants it, the Twitter client I prefer is $1.
And I think that covers all the software I use regularly.
Nighthawk321 1 points 7y ago
I would go with Windows 8.1 for now, as Win 10 is still a tiny bit annoying to use with NVDA. I doubt he needs anything more than an entry level computer, seeing that he's just starting out. Good choice with NVDA btw.
jage9 1 points 7y ago
I'm using Win 10 with NVDA now and it works just fine. There's some features such as the Edge browser which are suspect, but you can just use Firefox or Chrome anyway.
Nighthawk321 1 points 7y ago
Oh hmm, interesting.
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