Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Duscussion of recent posts by BlindNewWorld (self.Blind)
submitted by claudettemonet
Hello all,
The BlindNewWorld organization has posted nearly the exact same post a couple of times. They have since deleted those posts. The reason they deleted them is likely because the discussion was less than flattering. It was pointed out by u/turdBullion, who works with the deaf community, that the tone of BlindNewWorld's post was condescending and would never fly in the deaf community.
As you may or may not know, I am new to blindness. I was recently diagnosed with a degenerative eye condition. So I was reluctant to be the first to say anything. However, u/turdBullion's comment opened the door for me to say something. And, apparently, I had a lot to say. Lots of things that BlindNewWorld probably didn't want me to be saying about them.
Now, being new to all blind issues, I am probably a little more reactive than others. It is also sort of my personality to call things out, but I admit I might have over-reacted. I did end up coming up with a very awesome insult. It is in my post history. I posted it to r/insults if you want to check it out.
But whether or not I was over reacting is something I leave up to you, the dear frequenters of r/blind, to decide. You don't have to be blind to weigh in.
So here goes:
The biggest most glaring complaint with BlindNewWorld's post was the way they framed it. The tag line was "OUR world is THEIR world too!" The us/them frame sucks generally. It sets people apart, alienates them. Even if that is not the intention, that is exactly what us/them language does.
Furthermore, it is patronizing. The post has been deleted and I didn't copy it down. But it did say something to the effect of "there are x number of blind people and we need to help these individuals." It obviously wasn't addressed to blind people. It was just talking about blind people... which is so weird cause they were posting to r/blind!
It just felt condescending and patronizing, and as u/turdBullion pointed out in the thread that is now deleted, that tone would never fly in the deaf community. And as a blind from birth redditor, u/fastfinge, pointed out, this is the tone most blind organizations take. Sounds like we could maybe learn something from the deaf community.
As to their mini-videos for raising awareness, they were not great. They felt campy and disingenuous. BlindNewWorld did message me to let me know that the actors were actually blind and had the same jobs as their characters. I guess I would have simply preferred an interview with the real life vp guy instead. An interview on TV would have been even cooler. Like an interview with Trevor Noah or someone like that.
The main thing I didn't like about the videos apart from the writing and pacing and all that sort of artsy stuff, was the presuppositions it presupposed the sighted world has about blind people. I just don't know how prevalent those preconceptions are. I am new to blindness. Im not even legal yet .. (omg.. I'm barely legal! Sorry, sorry inappropriate joke)
Before finding out about my impending blindness I didn't think much about blindness. When I saw blind people I didn't pity them or make assumptions about what they could and couldn't do. I just didn't have any preconceptions. It is like what totally blind people see. Nothing. Not black or white or gray. Just nothing.
The schema the videos set up, which imply that the rest of the world already has all these assumptions about blind people, and their pitiablility and incapability, is not the schema I want to be operating from when I am blind, or even before that.
It won't do me any good to be making those assumptions about what people might be thinking about me. And when I do come up against ignorance or out right prejudice, I will deal with it then. I have actual blind-spots, I don't want to make assumptions about other people's figurative ones.
It is like when I lived in China. Chinese people could be pretty weird about foreigners, but it was only because they had never met one before. You were their first, and while dealing with those first time reactions over and over again could be frustrating, to allow those experiences to alter your schema to where you started to make assumptions about Chinese people, that they were prejudiced or bigoted, that just turned you into the bigoted asshole and made you miserable. I knew plenty of expats who were like that, but it is not what I would chose. Bitterness is a trap. Please, don't fall into it.
So final thoughts on this awareness campaign. Raising awareness on blind issues is cool. I am all for it. However, I wonder to what degree the BlindNewWorld campaign is falling victim to the very tendencies, preconceptions and skewed mind-sets that they are trying to change.
Please, chime in, r/blind. I think this is a conversation worth having.
-Claudette
[Edit for typos and spacing. Spelled turdBullion wrong once, messed up the grammar somewhere, and had 2 spaces between two paragraphs instead of one.. why can't I edit the title to fix the spelling of discussion. Teaches me not to go redditing all day on my phone. I just don't catch things on that little screen.. sigh.. oh well]
The BlindNewWorld organization has posted nearly the exact same post a couple of times. They have since deleted those posts. The reason they deleted them is likely because the discussion was less than flattering. It was pointed out by u/turdBullion, who works with the deaf community, that the tone of BlindNewWorld's post was condescending and would never fly in the deaf community.
As you may or may not know, I am new to blindness. I was recently diagnosed with a degenerative eye condition. So I was reluctant to be the first to say anything. However, u/turdBullion's comment opened the door for me to say something. And, apparently, I had a lot to say. Lots of things that BlindNewWorld probably didn't want me to be saying about them.
Now, being new to all blind issues, I am probably a little more reactive than others. It is also sort of my personality to call things out, but I admit I might have over-reacted. I did end up coming up with a very awesome insult. It is in my post history. I posted it to r/insults if you want to check it out.
But whether or not I was over reacting is something I leave up to you, the dear frequenters of r/blind, to decide. You don't have to be blind to weigh in.
So here goes:
The biggest most glaring complaint with BlindNewWorld's post was the way they framed it. The tag line was "OUR world is THEIR world too!" The us/them frame sucks generally. It sets people apart, alienates them. Even if that is not the intention, that is exactly what us/them language does.
Furthermore, it is patronizing. The post has been deleted and I didn't copy it down. But it did say something to the effect of "there are x number of blind people and we need to help these individuals." It obviously wasn't addressed to blind people. It was just talking about blind people... which is so weird cause they were posting to r/blind!
It just felt condescending and patronizing, and as u/turdBullion pointed out in the thread that is now deleted, that tone would never fly in the deaf community. And as a blind from birth redditor, u/fastfinge, pointed out, this is the tone most blind organizations take. Sounds like we could maybe learn something from the deaf community.
As to their mini-videos for raising awareness, they were not great. They felt campy and disingenuous. BlindNewWorld did message me to let me know that the actors were actually blind and had the same jobs as their characters. I guess I would have simply preferred an interview with the real life vp guy instead. An interview on TV would have been even cooler. Like an interview with Trevor Noah or someone like that.
The main thing I didn't like about the videos apart from the writing and pacing and all that sort of artsy stuff, was the presuppositions it presupposed the sighted world has about blind people. I just don't know how prevalent those preconceptions are. I am new to blindness. Im not even legal yet .. (omg.. I'm barely legal! Sorry, sorry inappropriate joke)
Before finding out about my impending blindness I didn't think much about blindness. When I saw blind people I didn't pity them or make assumptions about what they could and couldn't do. I just didn't have any preconceptions. It is like what totally blind people see. Nothing. Not black or white or gray. Just nothing.
The schema the videos set up, which imply that the rest of the world already has all these assumptions about blind people, and their pitiablility and incapability, is not the schema I want to be operating from when I am blind, or even before that.
It won't do me any good to be making those assumptions about what people might be thinking about me. And when I do come up against ignorance or out right prejudice, I will deal with it then. I have actual blind-spots, I don't want to make assumptions about other people's figurative ones.
It is like when I lived in China. Chinese people could be pretty weird about foreigners, but it was only because they had never met one before. You were their first, and while dealing with those first time reactions over and over again could be frustrating, to allow those experiences to alter your schema to where you started to make assumptions about Chinese people, that they were prejudiced or bigoted, that just turned you into the bigoted asshole and made you miserable. I knew plenty of expats who were like that, but it is not what I would chose. Bitterness is a trap. Please, don't fall into it.
So final thoughts on this awareness campaign. Raising awareness on blind issues is cool. I am all for it. However, I wonder to what degree the BlindNewWorld campaign is falling victim to the very tendencies, preconceptions and skewed mind-sets that they are trying to change.
Please, chime in, r/blind. I think this is a conversation worth having.
-Claudette
[Edit for typos and spacing. Spelled turdBullion wrong once, messed up the grammar somewhere, and had 2 spaces between two paragraphs instead of one.. why can't I edit the title to fix the spelling of discussion. Teaches me not to go redditing all day on my phone. I just don't catch things on that little screen.. sigh.. oh well]
fastfinge 6 points 7y ago
Just did a bit more research into this, now that I'm back home and not on my phone. According to $1, "BlindNewWorld is the brainchild of Corinne Grousbeck, chair of the Perkins Board of Trustees whose son, now an adult, is blind and attended Perkins School for the Blind.". Also, "...eventually banding together with Brightmark Consulting..." and "...two PSAs, directed by award-winning director Tom DeCerchio..."
If you're interested, you should probably read that entire article. But it does confirm the feelings people have that this is a campaign created entirely by the sighted, run by the sighted, and promoted by the sighted, with almost no involvement from the actual blind community. It's all consulting firms and PR. And while I'm not as passionate as /u/claudettemonet is about this, I can't help feel that it's "same old, same old", and it does leave a slightly bad taste in my mouth.
Edit to ad: Also, from there website: "The Quiz may not be accessible to all users, but we are working on it." Uh, sorry, no. If you're trying to promote equal access, your just not done until you can offer equal access yourselves. Doing anything else damages your campaign badly. Even sighted readers reading that will think: "if they can't even make that website accessible to all users, how could I ever make anything accessible?" This never should have been launched until you were done "working on it".
If you're interested, you should probably read that entire article. But it does confirm the feelings people have that this is a campaign created entirely by the sighted, run by the sighted, and promoted by the sighted, with almost no involvement from the actual blind community. It's all consulting firms and PR. And while I'm not as passionate as /u/claudettemonet is about this, I can't help feel that it's "same old, same old", and it does leave a slightly bad taste in my mouth.
Edit to ad: Also, from there website: "The Quiz may not be accessible to all users, but we are working on it." Uh, sorry, no. If you're trying to promote equal access, your just not done until you can offer equal access yourselves. Doing anything else damages your campaign badly. Even sighted readers reading that will think: "if they can't even make that website accessible to all users, how could I ever make anything accessible?" This never should have been launched until you were done "working on it".
Nighthawk321 3 points 7y ago
These guys actually messaged me when I was doing my AMA. They asked if I could put it in the main post of my AMA. I didn't have time to read the article, but either way it sounded sketchy. I just ignored it. On that note, does anyone have the link to the article since I never read it?
Edit: I read the article and watched the videos. I agree, the videos didn't really seem to promote anything other than that people think differently about blind people. I mean, I get what they're trying to do, but they're just doing it in all the wrong ways. I don't think I feel as strongly about this as OP, but I do agree it's sort of gimmicky. However, I didn't see the posts they made, so maybe if I read those I would have a different opinion.
Edit: I read the article and watched the videos. I agree, the videos didn't really seem to promote anything other than that people think differently about blind people. I mean, I get what they're trying to do, but they're just doing it in all the wrong ways. I don't think I feel as strongly about this as OP, but I do agree it's sort of gimmicky. However, I didn't see the posts they made, so maybe if I read those I would have a different opinion.
fastfinge 3 points 7y ago
Thanks for posting this! Good summary of the discussion in the now deleted thread. I agree completely, and hope this gets a little more visibility.
Vaelian 2 points 7y ago
I think you're overreacting. Blindness imposes obstacles and limitations that simply make us different, wanting it or not.
fastfinge 3 points 7y ago
I don't. Based on the fact that the organization has sent us mod messages asking mods to delete unfavourable comments, it seems pretty clear to me that whatever they're doing, they aren't interested in the thoughts or opinions of actual blind people. They just want good PR, nothing more.
Nighthawk321 3 points 7y ago
What the hell, that's really sketchy.
awesomesaucesaywhat 3 points 7y ago
That is super scummy of them!
claudettemonet [OP] 1 points 7y ago
True dat. I know I am at least half overreacting. Thanks for chiming in, Vaelian. Haven't heard from you in a while. [insert friendly and also slightly concerned smiley here]
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
So, BlindNewWorlds just deleted their Reddit account entirely, after sending several messages to the mods this morning. As they deleted their account, I can't respond to the messages privately, even if I wanted to. Thus, I'm going to do so in public here. This has left a supremely bad taste in my mouth, and I want it in the public record the childish and dishonest way this organization has behaved. I'd also like to provide the community with a summary of exactly what has gone on, and why. I did completely mishandle this as a MOD, and I want to be open and up-front about that as well. If you don't enjoy the airing of dirty laundry, you can stop reading now.
First of all, they obviously discovered /r/blind after the AMA done by /u/Nighthawk321. $1, they sent him a private message attempting to highjack his AMA for PR purposes. When that didn't work, they headed over to this sub to post. As the account they were using was less than one day old, $1 was held for approval. When this happens, the poster is sent a clear message explaining why the post needs to be approved, and letting them know that we'll get to it shortly. However, I obviously wasn't fast enough for them; they sent a MOD message, asking us to "consider letting the post go active today if you could." Less than an hour later, they tried to make $1, that I didn't approve, because it was an exact dupe of the first one. When I did finally approve the first post, about 4 hours after they originally made it, they were sent a personal response, that would have landed in their Reddit messages, from me:
> Approved! We got over a hundred new subscribers today, thanks to an ask reddit that hit the front page, so we're a little swamped. Sorry for the wait!
The next day, when they logged in, they would have gotten that message, and thus been clearly told that the original post was approved. However, they decided they needed to make $1 anyway. They also deleted the first post, that I had approved. Shortly after making the third post, they decided that they needed to delete it, as well. My assumption is that it's because the discussion in the thread wasn't going their way. After deleting all the posts they'd made, they sent some mod messages. First:
> Hello, I was hoping one of the moderators here also runs the @blindreddit twitter handle. We made a post in this subreddit yesterday, but it didn't flesh out how we wanted. So we deleted the post. However, the tweet on your twitter still links to the post and we were curious if that could potentially be deleted off twitter. Just so people aren't linking to random stuff. If you were able to get in contact with whomever could do that it would mean a lot. The specific tweet was posted yesterday and it says " Our world is theirs too! Blindness Awareness.: Hey Reddit! We represent the BlindNewWorld movement, as sponso..."
> Thanks!!
"Didn't flesh out how you wanted"? If there is some other way for me to understand that other than "we didn't like the comments in the thread", someone please llet me know what exactly that is. If it really "didn't flesh out" how you wanted, you could have easily edited the post. That would have also provided a more transparent way of evolving your campaign, and let the community know you were listening and taking the criticism you were offered.
They also sent another message:
> Hello again,
> In addition to the last message about the Twitter handle, is there also a way to completely delete a post/thread we started, including the comments? I think I only deleted the content description, but not the actual thread. Thanks again :)
Well, from what I can tell, that just makes it absolutely clear to me why the post was deleted. They really want that thread gone, "including the comments", and all links to it removed, it seems.
Around this point, I really was getting upset by this organization, and how they were handling PR. I also felt that it would be overstepping my bounds as a mod to complain publicly; even when I don't distinguish a post, I worry that what I say and do really can make people feel unwelcome. So I really wanted to do my best not to show the bias I was quickly developing against BlindNewWorlds. I thus sent a private message to /u/claudettemonet, in response to the PM she had sent me alerting me to the fact that BlindNewWorlds was deleting posts. It read, in part:
> Wow, they deleted the post, yet again? I'm getting a little worried that they're intentionally controlling the discussion. If they repost the same identical post for a third time, I am going to delete it and ban them for spamming. Could you do me a huge favor? Would you mind making a self post about this, articulating your reasons for not liking the short films? You're more engaged with, and better at articulating this stuff than I am. Also, while banning them for spamming if they make a third identical post would be completely justified, it would kind of make the MODs look horrible. Some discussion from someone in the community, not controlled by these people, I think would go a long way towards making any mod action we might have to take against them easier for subscribers to understand. Plus, Reddit does pretty well in Google searches. If you make a post about your problems with the campaign, that they can't just delete, it'll show the other side of this in Google searches for all time.
I am not proud of doing that. It's exactly the sort of back-room dealing that makes me sick when other moderators do it, promotes conspiracy theories, and divides the community. It was a failure on my part. But I was both extremely annoyed, and really unsure of myself. All I can say is I'm sorry, both to /u/claudettemonet for putting her in that position, and to the community for acting behind your backs. My first "thanks for posting!" comment in this thread was the worst sort of astroturfing, and was just as bad as the behavior BlindNewWorlds has been engaged in. I failed to be transparent with everyone, and I failed to trust the community developing here. That's why I'm making this all public now, so that everyone knows exactly what happened and why. I'd also like to make it clear that this entire issue was handled exclusively by me. No other mod was involved, and I didn't even consult them, even though I perhaps should have.
After this thread was created, I then responded in private to BlindNewWorlds:
> No, Reddit doesn't allow deleting threads. And even if it did, we wouldn't delete that one. When you present something to the blind community, you don't get to delete the thread just because you don't like the direction of the discussion, or what actual blind people have to say about the post. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but you've made two identical posts in two days. If you make another post with the exact same information, it's going to be spam. And as per our rules, we do not allow spamming here. I think you're trying to do something good, but you're doing it in all the wrong ways. Please read this post from one of our frequent, active users, and take it to heart. Maybe even consider participating in discussion with the community you're advocating for. But please, please, please don't post this a third time. I absolutely don't want to have to ban you for spamming, because I don't think that would be good for anyone.
This morning, just before deleting their account, BlindNewWorlds responded again, and I'd like to respond to those messages here.
First message:
> Hello,
> Thanks for that information. With all due respect we didn't intend to post two days in a row. This account was made the same day as the first post, so it originally said the post wasn't going to posted, so we didn't realize it went through. Hence why it was posted again. Secondly, when saying 'direction' we also are not saying we don't like how the blind community reacted to it. We are grateful to learn that information on how they want blindness awareness campaigns to be different. When saying 'direction' we are saying we wanted it removed for purposes of not offending anyone further since the post wasn't written correctly. No one was planning on posting it for a third time. Thanks.
You were told via private message your first post was approved. When you went back and deleted your first post, you would have also been able to clearly read that it had been approved. I am absolutely unable to understand how you can claim that you didn't "realize it went through". As for not planning to post a third time, you actually have posted three times; I just didn't approve one of them. But I am glad to know you have no plans for what would, in fact, be a fourth time! As for deleting your post so as not to offend anyone, I also find this difficult to understand. It's quite easy to edit your post; you don't need an entire thread "including the comments" deleted to achieve that. If you were worried that you had offended people, you could also have posted in the comments saying "sorry for any offense" or something similar. Instead, you refused to engage with the community in any way what so ever.
(comment too long. Continued in reply.)
First of all, they obviously discovered /r/blind after the AMA done by /u/Nighthawk321. $1, they sent him a private message attempting to highjack his AMA for PR purposes. When that didn't work, they headed over to this sub to post. As the account they were using was less than one day old, $1 was held for approval. When this happens, the poster is sent a clear message explaining why the post needs to be approved, and letting them know that we'll get to it shortly. However, I obviously wasn't fast enough for them; they sent a MOD message, asking us to "consider letting the post go active today if you could." Less than an hour later, they tried to make $1, that I didn't approve, because it was an exact dupe of the first one. When I did finally approve the first post, about 4 hours after they originally made it, they were sent a personal response, that would have landed in their Reddit messages, from me:
> Approved! We got over a hundred new subscribers today, thanks to an ask reddit that hit the front page, so we're a little swamped. Sorry for the wait!
The next day, when they logged in, they would have gotten that message, and thus been clearly told that the original post was approved. However, they decided they needed to make $1 anyway. They also deleted the first post, that I had approved. Shortly after making the third post, they decided that they needed to delete it, as well. My assumption is that it's because the discussion in the thread wasn't going their way. After deleting all the posts they'd made, they sent some mod messages. First:
> Hello, I was hoping one of the moderators here also runs the @blindreddit twitter handle. We made a post in this subreddit yesterday, but it didn't flesh out how we wanted. So we deleted the post. However, the tweet on your twitter still links to the post and we were curious if that could potentially be deleted off twitter. Just so people aren't linking to random stuff. If you were able to get in contact with whomever could do that it would mean a lot. The specific tweet was posted yesterday and it says " Our world is theirs too! Blindness Awareness.: Hey Reddit! We represent the BlindNewWorld movement, as sponso..."
> Thanks!!
"Didn't flesh out how you wanted"? If there is some other way for me to understand that other than "we didn't like the comments in the thread", someone please llet me know what exactly that is. If it really "didn't flesh out" how you wanted, you could have easily edited the post. That would have also provided a more transparent way of evolving your campaign, and let the community know you were listening and taking the criticism you were offered.
They also sent another message:
> Hello again,
> In addition to the last message about the Twitter handle, is there also a way to completely delete a post/thread we started, including the comments? I think I only deleted the content description, but not the actual thread. Thanks again :)
Well, from what I can tell, that just makes it absolutely clear to me why the post was deleted. They really want that thread gone, "including the comments", and all links to it removed, it seems.
Around this point, I really was getting upset by this organization, and how they were handling PR. I also felt that it would be overstepping my bounds as a mod to complain publicly; even when I don't distinguish a post, I worry that what I say and do really can make people feel unwelcome. So I really wanted to do my best not to show the bias I was quickly developing against BlindNewWorlds. I thus sent a private message to /u/claudettemonet, in response to the PM she had sent me alerting me to the fact that BlindNewWorlds was deleting posts. It read, in part:
> Wow, they deleted the post, yet again? I'm getting a little worried that they're intentionally controlling the discussion. If they repost the same identical post for a third time, I am going to delete it and ban them for spamming. Could you do me a huge favor? Would you mind making a self post about this, articulating your reasons for not liking the short films? You're more engaged with, and better at articulating this stuff than I am. Also, while banning them for spamming if they make a third identical post would be completely justified, it would kind of make the MODs look horrible. Some discussion from someone in the community, not controlled by these people, I think would go a long way towards making any mod action we might have to take against them easier for subscribers to understand. Plus, Reddit does pretty well in Google searches. If you make a post about your problems with the campaign, that they can't just delete, it'll show the other side of this in Google searches for all time.
I am not proud of doing that. It's exactly the sort of back-room dealing that makes me sick when other moderators do it, promotes conspiracy theories, and divides the community. It was a failure on my part. But I was both extremely annoyed, and really unsure of myself. All I can say is I'm sorry, both to /u/claudettemonet for putting her in that position, and to the community for acting behind your backs. My first "thanks for posting!" comment in this thread was the worst sort of astroturfing, and was just as bad as the behavior BlindNewWorlds has been engaged in. I failed to be transparent with everyone, and I failed to trust the community developing here. That's why I'm making this all public now, so that everyone knows exactly what happened and why. I'd also like to make it clear that this entire issue was handled exclusively by me. No other mod was involved, and I didn't even consult them, even though I perhaps should have.
After this thread was created, I then responded in private to BlindNewWorlds:
> No, Reddit doesn't allow deleting threads. And even if it did, we wouldn't delete that one. When you present something to the blind community, you don't get to delete the thread just because you don't like the direction of the discussion, or what actual blind people have to say about the post. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but you've made two identical posts in two days. If you make another post with the exact same information, it's going to be spam. And as per our rules, we do not allow spamming here. I think you're trying to do something good, but you're doing it in all the wrong ways. Please read this post from one of our frequent, active users, and take it to heart. Maybe even consider participating in discussion with the community you're advocating for. But please, please, please don't post this a third time. I absolutely don't want to have to ban you for spamming, because I don't think that would be good for anyone.
This morning, just before deleting their account, BlindNewWorlds responded again, and I'd like to respond to those messages here.
First message:
> Hello,
> Thanks for that information. With all due respect we didn't intend to post two days in a row. This account was made the same day as the first post, so it originally said the post wasn't going to posted, so we didn't realize it went through. Hence why it was posted again. Secondly, when saying 'direction' we also are not saying we don't like how the blind community reacted to it. We are grateful to learn that information on how they want blindness awareness campaigns to be different. When saying 'direction' we are saying we wanted it removed for purposes of not offending anyone further since the post wasn't written correctly. No one was planning on posting it for a third time. Thanks.
You were told via private message your first post was approved. When you went back and deleted your first post, you would have also been able to clearly read that it had been approved. I am absolutely unable to understand how you can claim that you didn't "realize it went through". As for not planning to post a third time, you actually have posted three times; I just didn't approve one of them. But I am glad to know you have no plans for what would, in fact, be a fourth time! As for deleting your post so as not to offend anyone, I also find this difficult to understand. It's quite easy to edit your post; you don't need an entire thread "including the comments" deleted to achieve that. If you were worried that you had offended people, you could also have posted in the comments saying "sorry for any offense" or something similar. Instead, you refused to engage with the community in any way what so ever.
(comment too long. Continued in reply.)
AlliTurna 3 points 7y ago
Thanks for sharing it with us. I really appreciate it.
However, we don't have enough material to head over to r/SubredditDrama yet. I guess we're too small for it. :(
However, we don't have enough material to head over to r/SubredditDrama yet. I guess we're too small for it. :(
fastfinge 4 points 7y ago
I hope we never do get enough drama for that! This is more than enough for me, thanks. :-)
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
second message:
> Also when I refer to the blind community I intend to say the Reddit Blind community, as most of the employees here working on this campaign are in fact blind as well.
I'm glad to hear that! In that case, why are none of them willing to engage with this community? Why are they allowing posts to be written about them in third person? If this campaign is run by blind folks, it seems to me like it would say "our world", not "their world". Why are blind people themselves talking about us, instead of talking with or to us? Why are your own blind employees seemingly excluding their own voices from the campaign? Wouldn't letting your employees speak directly add more authenticity? Why is the fact that the campaign itself is being run by blind people never mentioned in your PR? Even when you're covered by the media, this is covered as something done for the blind, rather than something done by the blind. I'm sure with a little thought, you can understand the assumption that no blind people are involved at all. Because it seems that they have been given no agency or voice themselves.
third message:
> FYI, it's not nice to say things like "actual blind people" as I'm visually impaired.
Again, that's good to hear! But it's also not nice to talk about blind people in the third person, when you're speaking directly to blind people. What's even less nice is to try and use /r/blind as your personal PR outlet. The fact that you yourself are visually impaired makes your request to silence the voices of other blind and visually impaired people, by requesting threads "including the comments" be deleted, even worse, not better. It's also not nice to sign up to Reddit exclusively to try and get free PR on the back of an AMA done by /u/Nighthawk321, especially when you've apparently had no previous association with him. Deleting your account in a huff, when you don't get your way and get called on what you're doing, just adds the icing to the "not nice" cake.
So, this is where we stand now. Once again, I'd like to offer my heartfelt regrets to the community for the way I mishandled parts of the situation. I'd also like to repeat that I think the people at BlindNewWorlds are good people, with good intentions. They're just executing on them all wrong, and that's extremely frustrating. If BlindNewWorlds ever does decide to try and fix the problems with what they're doing, and make a second attempt at getting it right in a new campaign, I'll do my best to give them a fair shake. Or if they just decide to come back and engage with us, I'll do what I can to help them do a better job. And I know the rest of the Reddit community will also treat them fairly and openly. Perhaps more fairly and openly than I have.
> Also when I refer to the blind community I intend to say the Reddit Blind community, as most of the employees here working on this campaign are in fact blind as well.
I'm glad to hear that! In that case, why are none of them willing to engage with this community? Why are they allowing posts to be written about them in third person? If this campaign is run by blind folks, it seems to me like it would say "our world", not "their world". Why are blind people themselves talking about us, instead of talking with or to us? Why are your own blind employees seemingly excluding their own voices from the campaign? Wouldn't letting your employees speak directly add more authenticity? Why is the fact that the campaign itself is being run by blind people never mentioned in your PR? Even when you're covered by the media, this is covered as something done for the blind, rather than something done by the blind. I'm sure with a little thought, you can understand the assumption that no blind people are involved at all. Because it seems that they have been given no agency or voice themselves.
third message:
> FYI, it's not nice to say things like "actual blind people" as I'm visually impaired.
Again, that's good to hear! But it's also not nice to talk about blind people in the third person, when you're speaking directly to blind people. What's even less nice is to try and use /r/blind as your personal PR outlet. The fact that you yourself are visually impaired makes your request to silence the voices of other blind and visually impaired people, by requesting threads "including the comments" be deleted, even worse, not better. It's also not nice to sign up to Reddit exclusively to try and get free PR on the back of an AMA done by /u/Nighthawk321, especially when you've apparently had no previous association with him. Deleting your account in a huff, when you don't get your way and get called on what you're doing, just adds the icing to the "not nice" cake.
So, this is where we stand now. Once again, I'd like to offer my heartfelt regrets to the community for the way I mishandled parts of the situation. I'd also like to repeat that I think the people at BlindNewWorlds are good people, with good intentions. They're just executing on them all wrong, and that's extremely frustrating. If BlindNewWorlds ever does decide to try and fix the problems with what they're doing, and make a second attempt at getting it right in a new campaign, I'll do my best to give them a fair shake. Or if they just decide to come back and engage with us, I'll do what I can to help them do a better job. And I know the rest of the Reddit community will also treat them fairly and openly. Perhaps more fairly and openly than I have.
Nighthawk321 2 points 7y ago
I'm not sure if this is my place to make this public, so feel free to remove them if it isn't. This is the message they sent me:
>Hello Nighthawk321,
We represent the BlindNewWorld campaign as found on blindnewworld.org, sponsored by Perkins School of the Blind. I am an intern here on Perkins campus working to help spread this movement. Would you be willing to add at the end of your original post this following link blindnewworld.org so that we can help spread this campaign? You could say something like, "If you are interested in supporting a significant blindness awareness campaign, you can check out the following link at blindnewworld.org." If you were willing to do that, it would be hugely beneficial towards helping to accomplish our goals! On the site we have two videos that we shot and scripted for blindness awareness, there are audio described versions of both videos on the site if you would like to check them out. The purpose of the videos, and the purpose of the campaign, is to show the world that blind individuals are just as capable as anyone else, we are seeking to remove the stigmas attached to blindness. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you kindly!!!! And thanks for posting and sharing your story on reddit :)
>Hello Nighthawk321,
We represent the BlindNewWorld campaign as found on blindnewworld.org, sponsored by Perkins School of the Blind. I am an intern here on Perkins campus working to help spread this movement. Would you be willing to add at the end of your original post this following link blindnewworld.org so that we can help spread this campaign? You could say something like, "If you are interested in supporting a significant blindness awareness campaign, you can check out the following link at blindnewworld.org." If you were willing to do that, it would be hugely beneficial towards helping to accomplish our goals! On the site we have two videos that we shot and scripted for blindness awareness, there are audio described versions of both videos on the site if you would like to check them out. The purpose of the videos, and the purpose of the campaign, is to show the world that blind individuals are just as capable as anyone else, we are seeking to remove the stigmas attached to blindness. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you kindly!!!! And thanks for posting and sharing your story on reddit :)
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
Thanks for letting us read this message! The thing that frustrates me is that this message is actually better worded than the posts they tried to make to the sub here. However, the idea that they just tried to associate themselves with something you're doing, when you'd never even heard of them before, still feels uncomfortable.
Anyway, now the entire truth about this is out, I guess. So people can judge both sides for themselves. That's probably the best we can ask for, at this point.
Anyway, now the entire truth about this is out, I guess. So people can judge both sides for themselves. That's probably the best we can ask for, at this point.
Nighthawk321 3 points 7y ago
That's the best word for it, uncomfortable. I told myself I would get back to the message, but I sorta just forgot about it once the AMA picked up. Next thing I knew all of this popped up. lol
claudettemonet [OP] 1 points 7y ago
Hello all,
I would also like to apologize for my role in the back room dealing nature of this post. I'm not sorry for what I said, and I am not sorry for reposting the discussion here. I don't know if I absolutely would have reposted the discission without u/fastfinge's request, but it was still at least a 50/50 chance. I am sorry that I was not more upfront about all the reasons behind the post, primarily that I had omitted the fact that I posted at another's behest. For that omission, I apologize.
Sincerely,
Claudette
I would also like to apologize for my role in the back room dealing nature of this post. I'm not sorry for what I said, and I am not sorry for reposting the discussion here. I don't know if I absolutely would have reposted the discission without u/fastfinge's request, but it was still at least a 50/50 chance. I am sorry that I was not more upfront about all the reasons behind the post, primarily that I had omitted the fact that I posted at another's behest. For that omission, I apologize.
Sincerely,
Claudette
fastfinge 1 points 7y ago
You have nothing to apologize for. This one is entirely on me. I should never have asked, and should have left that choice entirely up to you.
claudettemonet [OP] 1 points 7y ago
'Salright. Things happen. We make mistakes. We try the best moment to moment. And apologize when we slip up. Such is life. I could have done better too. But I totally accept your apology.
[deleted] 1 points 7y ago
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