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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2017 - 05 - 12 - ID#6atmlm
10
What do you think of blindface in media? (self.Blind)
submitted by macbrazel
Hi r/blind! I am wondering what your thoughts are on blindface, the practice of sighted actors and other performers playing blind people in media: in film, TV, and onstage.

-context-

I am an actor, currently working on a production of the play *Butterflies Are Free* by Leonard Gersche. The play was written in 1969 and had a film adaptation in 1972 starring Goldie Hawn. The script is somewhat dated, but I am also coming to realize it employs some stereotypes about blind culture that may not be at all authentic. I would love to hear any and all thoughts about sighted actors playing blind in general, and any criticisms or comments about the piece in particular if you are familiar with it. Thank you for reading!
tymme 9 points 6y ago
Doesn't bother me. Nerds are not played by nerds on TV, doctors aren't played by doctors. Don't see why blindness should be any difference or cause any issues.

If a serious portrayal is desired, obviously there may want to be some research or consulting, but otherwise.. whatever. I'm certainly not going to try out for a musical just because I'm blind vs. someone else who isn't.
macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
Thank you! And you should absolutely audition for musicals! :)

Are there any shows that you particularly like, for the music or any other reason?
tymme 2 points 6y ago
I'm not (nor have a desire to be) an actor or anything; just saying there doesn't need to be preferential treatment for someone that has that disability to fill that role. (Imagine how hard it'd be to fill the role for Helen Keller the Musical.)

I'm legally blind but still have sight (just not the greatest) so it's not just the audial experience for me. The only musicals I've got any interest in are Avenue Q, Book of Mormon, and Camelot (the only one of the three I've seen). I guess Blues Brothers borders on a musical, and I'm a big fan of that, too. My two favorite shows I've seen live are Blue Man Group in Chicago and Cirque du Soleil in Las Vegas, though some of the visual stuff was probably lost a bit on me vs others.
fastfinge 9 points 6y ago
Haven't heard of the play in question. However, I can't say I'm too concerned about sighted people playing blind on stage or in movies. Sure, if a blind actor was available, I'd hope he would be considered. But I suspect that in most plays, that isn't even the case. I can only think of two working blind actors; I would be really surprised to find out there were anymore than 20, total, world wide. Yeah, that's a problem that could use a solution. But I don't think stopping "blindface" is the answer. Before we can even try that, we first need more up and coming blind actors. And we need to allow blind actors to play not only blind people, but sighted people as well.

However, one thing I do hate is plays/movies/comics about blind people, that are not accessible to the blind. If you're doing a movie/play/TV show/whatever, and you don't provide audio description, you're effectively talking about us behind our backs. And that's never OK. Netflix tried it, but were eventually forced to provide audio description not only for Daredevil, but for almost all of the original shows they produce, thanks to the massive public outcry. If the play has a blind character, try and make sure that at least one showing is $1.
macbrazel [OP] 3 points 6y ago
Thank you so much, I had wondered what theater would be like to a blind audience member! Of course audio description would be necessary! I will absolutely pursue audio description for our play, that is so important!

I greatly appreciate your first point, as well. It looks like there are some blind actors, both on the national level and in my own community, that have found some success. I hope that the production company I am working with tried to reach out and at least consider casting a blind performer... I need to learn more about their process, and perhaps there will be some opportunities for all of us to learn something!
Carnith 3 points 6y ago
To give you an idea about theater, I'm a teacher who decided to transition to special education and got a job as a teacher's aide to visually impaired and blind students. It's more of a resource program for the kids and they usually stay within 2 rooms with some having mainstream. However, we did have one of our blind students be in a musical. Granted she couldn't dance, but the kid has a great singing voice, so she made it to the background singers and they placed her with another background member as her guide. Well one of our fellow blind students wanted to go enjoy the play. I ended up sitting with this student and a more experienced aide. We sat towards the back under some speakers and the aide asked if I was gunna give audio description. I said sure but had never done it before. I just gave a quick description during scenes on who was on set and what they were doing. As it was my first time doing that stuff, I did forget a bit but the student said I did a fine job either way.
fastfinge 2 points 6y ago
Also, maybe contact some of those working blind actors directly. I've never heard of the play you're doing, but you did mention that it has some unfortunate stereotypes about blindness. I have no idea how bad they really are, but it's perhaps possible that a blind actor was offered the part, and turned it down. Is that a thing that actors do? I wouldn't know. :-)
macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
Actors are certainly capricious creatures! The main stereotype, or behavior that I think is a stereotype, is feeling people's faces to determine what they look like. All the blind people that I have encountered so far say that is a not a thing that anyone does. Are you aware of that as a stereotype or legitimate practice?
fastfinge 3 points 6y ago
It's mostly a stereotype. I don't do it, and out of the many blind people I know, only one of them does. The blind person I know who feels faces used to be fully sighted, before going blind later in life, and she was (and I think still might be) an artist (either sculpting or painting, I can't recall). So I can't say that no blind person ever does this. But I'm pretty sure nobody who was born blind ever does this. And it's pretty rare for those born blind later in life to do it, either, unless there are special circumstances. But...I wouldn't say it never ever happens.

edit: I wouldn't say it's offensive, though. At least, not the way $1 was offensive.
Terry_Pie 7 points 6y ago
I'd prefer to see characters with disability played by actors with disability. The accuracy of the portrayal will be realistic and that will go a long way to building community understanding about disability. I'm not convinced by the argument that "people of a particular subculture don't play a particular subculture", or "people of a particular profession don't play a particular profession" etc. I think there is a difference between portraying someone interested in certain things, or adept in certain areas, and someone with disability who uses different methods to achieve same goals. That difference, I would argue, leads to the stereotyping in portrayal because the sighted individual (for example) cannot conceive of doing things in a particular way without sight. I suspect (having not seen any show with blindness represented) the small things would likely show too.

Your question also touches on the issue of employment for people with disability, which is an incredibly complex topic. If you'd like me to try flesh out my argument along those lines, I am willing, but it probably won't be till later today when I can devote the time :P
macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
I am starting to learn just how complex the question of employment and opportunity is! Thank you so much for your response: if you are willing to speak a little more about access I would absolutely appreciate it, whether you have insight on the artistic industry or employment practices in general.

I agree with you, it seems to me that portraying a subculture is categorically different than portraying a disability. I am also concerned that whatever I do, accurate or not, could be taken as a monolithic statement on blind culture, rather than an attempt to simply present one individual. I want to try and learn as much as I can about people's experiences and expectations, and hopefully have conversations with audiences and theater people to increase accessibility and understanding.

In your experience, what are the most important elements of a portrayal of blindness onstage?

Have you ever seen a piece of theater with Audio Description?
Terry_Pie 2 points 6y ago
I'll start with your last two questions first, because they're quicker to answer.

I still have central vision in my left eye, so I don't need to use audio description at the moment.

The only time I can recall seeing blindness portrayed in film or theatre is an episode of CSI perhaps 15 years ago. I’m not big on film and haven’t been to the theatre in 15 years. I wouldn't mind going to theatre shows, I just don’t have anyone to go with. So I'm afraid on both those questions I'm not much help.

As for employment for people with disability, people with disability have a lower employment rate than the general population. I'm in Australia, so I'll be using rough figures from here, but the labour force participation rate (so the percentage of adults in or looking for work) is a little under 70%. When we look at people with disability, it’s about: 60% for vision impairment; 50-55% for hearing impairment; 40-45% for physical disability; and intellectual disability is the lowest.

We should also consider that a little more than 14% of Australians associated with having a disability. Yet, when you look at various employers, they are overwhelmingly underrepresented in the workforce. For example, the Department of Social Services (Federal Government department that deals with welfare etc) workforce comprises about 10% people with disability. My current department, the Department for Communities and Social Inclusion (South Australian state government department, deals with disability services, social housing, etc) only has 4.5% of its workforce associating with having disability. This pattern repeats in the private and non-government sectors.

So why does this under-representation exist? I would argue there are three factors: inaccessible career pathways; inaccessible careers; community perception.

Inaccessible career pathways is probably the most complex issue. We're talking about failures to: identify suitable career pathways; connect people with disability with those pathways; support people with disability through those pathways (e.g. providing accessible materials etc).

For example, in the 80s or 90s the university I later attended considered the issue of wheelchair users attending the uni. They found there weren't many wheelchair users attending the uni, so it didn't warrant the funds to put in an additional lift (elevator). Thing is, the campus is on a hillside and there are lots of stairs. So t wheelchair users weren't attending the university not because they weren't getting in, but because they couldn't physically access the campus.

Another example, relating to putting children/younger people with disability in contact with suitable career pathways: I am on the board of a not-for-profit blindness organisation. Our manager attends the graduation ceremonies for the blindness (primary) school here. He was reporting to us how all the kids were talking about what they wanted to be when they grew up. Pretty much all of them were saying careers that just weren't going to happen e.g. firefighter, policeman, etc.

Those are just a couple of examples. Connecting people with disability to suitable career pathways needs to start young, and be frank. Then, when possible pathways are lined up, those pathways need to be accessible to people with disability. This accessibility isn't just the responsibility of the organisation responsible for the education/training like my ramps and lifts in my uni example. There needs to be accessible and adequate public transport, there needs to be funding support (most uni students work part time in retail or hospitality, those industries aren't necessarily suitable for people with disability), etc.

The second point, accessible careers, is a bit more straight forward. Again though, it is wider than just the employer. Transportation is a pretty big deal. For example, here in Adelaide go North-South or East-West, not problem. But public transport converges on the CBD, so heading South-East, or West-North, etc is very difficult.

Then, in the workplace, you need employers that provide an accessible way to apply for a position, and proactively make adjustments to the workplace and work tasks so they are suitable for the candidate. For example, many jobs advertise they require a driver's licence when in fact they don't, so people unable to drive are excluded.

The third point ties into this latter part of the second, because community perceptions could see a candidate struck out because the employer doesn't think they can do the job as adequately as others because of their disability. For example, I've a friend with cerebral palsy. He was employed for a time with the disability employment service provider (i.e. organisation that helps you find work) doing data entry and admin type tasks. When he started everyone was very iffy because they thought he wouldn't manage the tasks. This perception led to them always commenting "wow, I'm really surprised you managed that so well" and the like. The guy has an honours degree and was putting numbers in cells in a spreadsheet and paper in files then into filing cabinets.

An employer might consider their work tasks, consider "ok, this is how I'd do them", and so when a person with disability shows up for an interview they're thinking "ok, to the do the tasks you need to do X, but this person would be impaired because of Y, so I don't see how it will work out". When, in reality, the person with disability will adapt alternate strategies to complete the task or utilise different tools and technology.

Overcoming this issue is the most difficult, because it is not just a case of throwing money at a problem and putting in tangible solutions. The best way to address the issue is having organisations employ people with disability. The story is the same with any organisation that employs someone through the Disability Employment Service program here in Australia (the program that funds the disability employment service providers to find work for people with disability): those organisations that employ people with disability do not look back. People with disability work harder, are more reliable, and are far more enthusiastic at work.

My favourite success story goes as follows: a factory is looking for a new work health safety officer. All the previous hires haven't stuck around and haven't been very good at getting people to follow proper work health safety procedures (e.g. wearing ear and eye protection etc). So they go to the local disability service provider and they come up with this guy with a moderate intellectual disability. They're hesitant, but they put him on and he turns out to be the best work health safety officer they've ever had. Why? Because he's always super cheerful and friendly and no one can say no to him. So a bloke isn't wearing his ears? He comes up, tells him to put on his ears, and the way he conveys it is so jovial and amusing the guy can't say no.

So where does this leave us for the acting industry? I have no doubts the interest and ability is out there for potential actors with disability. Next, they needs to be connected to the career pathway of acting. E.g. the teacher at school notes they like drama, they note that desire down. That identification needs to lead to an accessible education or training opportunity. Perhaps a theatre has a program specific to encourage people with disability into the industry with one on one case management to identify challenges that person with disability might have in completing education/training tasks and support them to develop solutions. There might also be a philanthropic contribution for the person, or government providing a pension.

Once that education is complete, there needs to be an accessible application process for roles. Perhaps a talent agency that has a specialty in people with disability. They might identify suitable roles and put their talent in contact with the theatre/ studio. They might also go further, and advocate for suitable roles. E.g they get a script, read it, and say "hey, have you considered that this character might be enhanced if they had disability?" Consider the representation of non-heterosexual characters in film and theatre. It's like every bloody show has to have one or more! The same thing happens with Culturally and Linguistically Diverse (CALD) groups. Why not disability? And why not have those characters with disability actually played by people with disability? The final step is making sure the theatre/studio etc, is accessible for people with disability and supports exist to case manage that and put solutions in place.

I don't consider it an impossible task, but it's not going to be done overnight. I also strongly oppose the use of quotas. You should select someone because they are the best person/fit for the role, not "just because". Regarding pension payments, it might be unique to Australia (?), but disability pensions for people with sensory, physical, and intellectual disability should *not* be means tested.

This may sound crazy, but they encourage "min-maxxing". For example, the person with disability could take that entry level trainee job, but they'd lose their pension. Problem: they'd lose part of their pension payments which mean they'll earn less overall. So to advance, they have to take a risk and lower their standard of living (hopefully only temporarily). The only type disability pension in Australia not means tested is the blind pension. Now, there are historical reasons for that, but when you see that the engagement of vision impaired people in the workforce is the *highest* of groups with disability, that clearly shows not means testing is not a disincentive for work. Basically, not means testing reduces uncertainty and encourages economic participation.

I do hope that was interesting and that you read it all. The TLDR really is that it is a complex issue that won't be resolved overnight.
macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
I found a great article that talks about the arts and its relationship with disability... and I think you are absolutely right. There are people in the disabled community who are actors, or would love to be actors! And there are roles for them, many many roles: the entertainment industry LOVES to use disability as a metaphor for the human condition. When it comes time to cast, though, do they give disabled actors the opportunity? Do they even consider actors who literally possess the disability being portrayed onstage or in film? According to one study I found (focusing exclusively on American TV), 95% of the time they do not.

Thank you for breaking it down, I am trying to think about ways that I can start to work with access and community perception, even in my own little show. I am trying to find an Audio Description system which would allow a vision-impaired audience member to catch details of the show that are not conveyed through dialogue. I hope to start a conversation with the company about their casting process... your description of the complexity of the issues of access to education and opportunity will definitely help me for talking points in those conversations! Thank you so much!
Terry_Pie 2 points 6y ago
Null sweat. The last thing I would add is the end goal is really to normalise disability. That is, people with disability can rock up to auditions for any role, not just get roles where characters are written specifically with disability in mind.

The industry might love using disability as a metaphor and what not, but to an extent that contributes to things like inspiration porn, disability as abnormal etc. Whereas there should be potential for actors with disability to play characters in theatre and film where disability isn't part of the story. Funnily enough, I can actually think of a movie where this is the case: the Steven Segal classic, Out for Justice.

Good luck with your production and your future work :)
Terry_Pie 1 points 6y ago
And, yes, I did hit the character cap and had to spend quite some time editing this post. In the end, it took close to 2 hours to write and edit. Reminds me of uni :')
macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
Thank you so much for this! I will read it as soon as I can, I so appreciate your willingness to help me out and share information!
KillerLag 3 points 6y ago
I've briefly worked with an actor before who was sighted but plays a blind character on TV (Christopher Gorham). He was very open to what we had to teach him.

I also know a few blind actors, but they are mostly amatuer productions on a stage.

Most people I know don't have an issue with a non-blind person playing a blind character.
macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
Thank you for responding! When you were working with Christopher Gorham, do you remember any things that really surprised him? Did you get to correct any glaring inaccuracies in his portrayal of vision impairment? Did the studio or producers seek you out for this connection?
KillerLag 2 points 6y ago
No problems. As I mentioned, I only worked with him briefly, another coworker did more work with him (I had some scheduling conflicts. Plus, I had no clue who he was at the time :P ). I don't recall anything really surprising him. I recall he was really attentive and listened to everything we said, but never took notes. From what I saw of him in the TV show, though, he was fairly accurate. Only two things I noticed that were a bit off. In one scene, he jumped off a building to another building. That is highly discouraged (but obviously, it's for TV). In another, he is teaching someone else how to use the cane and explaining how to use it. He mentions that there are lines cut into the curbs for the blind to navigate, but those particular lines he was mentioning are actually designed for water drainage. They are often used still for people to navigate, that's just not their primary purpose. Although the new detectable warning systems they are putting into curbs ARE designed specifically for cane and shoe detection.

I believe the studio contacted someone in the organization, who then got a hold of my boss

macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
Jumping off buildings: highly discouraged. :) Thank you for your reply!
KillerLag 2 points 6y ago
Heh, no problem.

It should be noted that we've had our clients jump over fire before, though ;)

http://imgur.com/a/hmYMv

Two years ago, my coworkers and I took a group of young adults through Warrior Dash. Obstacles included the fire jump, climing up large obstacles and crawling under barbed wire. Was very difficult, but I'm glad to report everyone made it through and mostly in one piece!
blindjo 2 points 6y ago
It can be a little annoying when its a crappy portrayal, but i understand that there aren't all that many blind actors out there (or disabled actors in general). Perhaps we should encourage more dosabled folks to go into that industry?

Until then, i think the bigger problem lies with innaccurate portrayal. I'm fine with sightys so long as they do a good job. I'm tired of these tropes in particular- blindness is the worst thing in the world, blind people are magical, blind people all desired to be fixed, blind people are better than sighted people because they look past superficial differences (pffft. I judge people's voices all the time, blind people are helpless, blind people can't use tech, and all blindness=total darkness. If a show avoids these tropes, then i'll give it a pass
macbrazel [OP] 1 points 6y ago
Thank you for your insight! I especially appreciate you saying that you judge people by the sound of their voices. As a voice actor, this is fascinating to me. What kinds of voices rate favorably for you?
blindjo 2 points 6y ago
I don't know quite how to describe it. Some people just *sound* cool. The last guy that i dated had sort of a deep, dreamy voice.
Btw voice acting is a cool career/hobby :)
[deleted] 1 points 6y ago
[deleted]
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