Blind and Visually Impaired Community
↑
12
↓
Toxicity in the blind community (self.Blind)
submitted by blindthrowaway12
Hey everyone,
First, I'm using a throwaway, my other account that I'm using right now gives away the city I live in and I'm not interested in stirring up drama. Going to keep this rather short if possible. This is also not an attack on anyone here, I've lurked for a while, you guys seem great, I'm just looking for some perspective so I can understand if this is just my local subset of the community or if this is a community as a whole issue.
I have been blind since birth, I have very low vision (travel with a cane or my guide dog) but some remaining functional vision, I am on track to graduate with my bachelor's degree early in Economics and I plan on going to law school after this. I am also viciously independent, it's the way my family raised me and I am very grateful for that.
During the early part of my life I never really interacted with the blind community in my area. I'm 20 now and over the past two years I got engaged with the community both unofficially and in the past year through the NFB via my now ex girlfriend who is also blind.
I finished up that relationship after I was cheated on shortly after moving in with her. She had a lot of issues especially with regards to her mental health that I thought were on the mend which probably lead her to make that decision, but she cheated on me at the NFB convention this year in Orlando while I stayed back and worked so we could pay rent. She has been used sexually by the chapter president of my local NFB who is at least 17 years older prior to me dating her (something which she neglected to tell me before she introduced me to him), and after a lot of reflection she did report him because he took advantage of her when she was vulnerable and just barely 18. This second guy who she actually cheated on me with is also at least ten years older than us, also blind. Also in the days leading up to her cheating she reported guys making very aggressive sexual advances at the NFB conference. I am not saying this to justify her actions, she made a clear decision and now lives with the consequences (I left her despite her wanting to work it out, it was very painful but I decided it was best for both of us since she clearly needs to work on herself and our relationship would never be the same).
Through this relationship and subsequent exposure to the local NFB scene I have discovered that my local blind community is plagued with toxicity and drama, I thought I had finally met some people who shared my struggle and were decent but I really can't stand any of them now after seeing who they really are, it just seems like everyone is so fucked up. They backstab and betray each other, they talk behind each other's backs. It's nonstop drama, like really childish and immature shit, and most of these people are like at least in their thirties, I don't understand where the disconnect is.
Especially after what happened with my ex at the goddamn National NFB convention in Orlando I really don't ever want to interact with the community ever again. Is it fair for me to feel this way or should I be open to meeting new blind people in the future?
I guess I'm just curious if anyone else has dealt with a toxic local community or if I'm just the one who keeps running into other blind people who aren't worth spending time with. It makes me sad, I'd really like to have some people who I can talk to who get it but I don't know what it is about this community in particular that just radiates toxicity in my experience. Just curious for your thoughts.
First, I'm using a throwaway, my other account that I'm using right now gives away the city I live in and I'm not interested in stirring up drama. Going to keep this rather short if possible. This is also not an attack on anyone here, I've lurked for a while, you guys seem great, I'm just looking for some perspective so I can understand if this is just my local subset of the community or if this is a community as a whole issue.
I have been blind since birth, I have very low vision (travel with a cane or my guide dog) but some remaining functional vision, I am on track to graduate with my bachelor's degree early in Economics and I plan on going to law school after this. I am also viciously independent, it's the way my family raised me and I am very grateful for that.
During the early part of my life I never really interacted with the blind community in my area. I'm 20 now and over the past two years I got engaged with the community both unofficially and in the past year through the NFB via my now ex girlfriend who is also blind.
I finished up that relationship after I was cheated on shortly after moving in with her. She had a lot of issues especially with regards to her mental health that I thought were on the mend which probably lead her to make that decision, but she cheated on me at the NFB convention this year in Orlando while I stayed back and worked so we could pay rent. She has been used sexually by the chapter president of my local NFB who is at least 17 years older prior to me dating her (something which she neglected to tell me before she introduced me to him), and after a lot of reflection she did report him because he took advantage of her when she was vulnerable and just barely 18. This second guy who she actually cheated on me with is also at least ten years older than us, also blind. Also in the days leading up to her cheating she reported guys making very aggressive sexual advances at the NFB conference. I am not saying this to justify her actions, she made a clear decision and now lives with the consequences (I left her despite her wanting to work it out, it was very painful but I decided it was best for both of us since she clearly needs to work on herself and our relationship would never be the same).
Through this relationship and subsequent exposure to the local NFB scene I have discovered that my local blind community is plagued with toxicity and drama, I thought I had finally met some people who shared my struggle and were decent but I really can't stand any of them now after seeing who they really are, it just seems like everyone is so fucked up. They backstab and betray each other, they talk behind each other's backs. It's nonstop drama, like really childish and immature shit, and most of these people are like at least in their thirties, I don't understand where the disconnect is.
Especially after what happened with my ex at the goddamn National NFB convention in Orlando I really don't ever want to interact with the community ever again. Is it fair for me to feel this way or should I be open to meeting new blind people in the future?
I guess I'm just curious if anyone else has dealt with a toxic local community or if I'm just the one who keeps running into other blind people who aren't worth spending time with. It makes me sad, I'd really like to have some people who I can talk to who get it but I don't know what it is about this community in particular that just radiates toxicity in my experience. Just curious for your thoughts.
KillerLag 8 points 5y ago
I've seen the same kind of drama you are talking about (and unfortunately have gotten involved in some myself). As others have said, insular communities tend to have these issues, because it is a smaller group where everyone knows each other. For my clients, I find the ones that have friends outside of the community are usually much better adjusted (that being said, there can always be drama still).
I have also found that for some people that have been blind all their lives, they've been given a free pass regarding some inapropriate social behaviour. I knew a male client in their 20s who has a tendency to be very gropy with females (part of the reason why I had been assigned to work with him). Right off the bat, I told him that this behaviour was unacceptable, and that we would need to work hard to correct years of bad behaviour. It doesn't happen to everyone who has been blind all their lives, but it can happen to anyone who does not have their behaviours corrected over time (unfortunately, I see WAY more of that than I would like... parents who don't correct their children, regardless of disability or not).
I have also found that for some people that have been blind all their lives, they've been given a free pass regarding some inapropriate social behaviour. I knew a male client in their 20s who has a tendency to be very gropy with females (part of the reason why I had been assigned to work with him). Right off the bat, I told him that this behaviour was unacceptable, and that we would need to work hard to correct years of bad behaviour. It doesn't happen to everyone who has been blind all their lives, but it can happen to anyone who does not have their behaviours corrected over time (unfortunately, I see WAY more of that than I would like... parents who don't correct their children, regardless of disability or not).
blindthrowaway12 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
I have noticed a parenting issue with a lot of the blind people I've met. I can honestly say my parents killed it, but my dad went out and immediately got coaching when he found out he had two blind sons, my younger brother who is also blind is now pitching a piece of software a friend and him developed to VC's for series A funding so I feel like he's going to be just fine too. I think so many people get those free passes and it makes childish, completely under adjusted adults.
Honestly fuck the NFB, it's a cesspool of shitty behavior reinforced by other shitty people under the guise of being an advocacy organization. I am not getting sucked in anymore.
Honestly fuck the NFB, it's a cesspool of shitty behavior reinforced by other shitty people under the guise of being an advocacy organization. I am not getting sucked in anymore.
KillerLag 2 points 5y ago
Parents can have a hard time adjusting, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they don't know how to handle unexpected circumstances, others is cultural. I've been working with one kid (6 years old), but it's slow going because his grandparents take away his cane when he gets home. So he gets no practice. I offered to the mother to talk to the grandparents (they are old-school Chinese, and there are some crazy superstitions regarding vision loss), but so far, no luck :(
Oh, and when that kid gets tired of walking..... he just flops down on the floor, and has his 60+ grandmother pick him up. At 6 years old >.<
Oh, and when that kid gets tired of walking..... he just flops down on the floor, and has his 60+ grandmother pick him up. At 6 years old >.<
blindthrowaway12 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
There was part of me that wanted to go into TVI work at a school for the blind as a career option (I went through mainstream education because my local school for the blind is really not good), and my dad, knowing what my experience is with being around other blind students asked if I thought I would even have the patience for that, but I think there needs to be more people who took the approach my parents did, which is a no bullshit, you have to learn this kind of attitude. My parents were kind to me and they helped me but I did not get a free pass on anything. At age 7 my dad was teaching me how to do my own laundry, and he showed me as many times as I needed kindly, but I was doing my own goddamn laundry whether I liked it or not.
I think there needs to be more people who make students aware that they can either put in the work or not, the world doesn't give a fuck whether they succeed or not, it's on them.
I think so many of these completely dysfunctional mid thirties adults that I spent the last year drinking with at NFB gatherings where I only got trickle truth about who they actually wer. I think they are all a direct product of this shitty upbringing. I'm lucky to maybe have a cure for my condition coming in the next 10 years or so and as shitty as it sounds I am ready to be out of this, not just to have full vision, I'm ready to be separated from this community that has caused me so much drama and pain this past year. There was a part of me that wasn't even sure if I would take a cure if offered because it had become such a part of me, but not anymore, I'm almost ashamed because of this people.
I've had a lot of luck with online communities and I really appreciate the engaging discussion here, but I really feel like I should have gone with my gut on even agreeing to meet this person and just not because I haven't met very many emotionally functional blind people and I don't want to role those dice again. In this case I just didn't realize how dysfunctional they were until I got sucked in.
I think there needs to be more people who make students aware that they can either put in the work or not, the world doesn't give a fuck whether they succeed or not, it's on them.
I think so many of these completely dysfunctional mid thirties adults that I spent the last year drinking with at NFB gatherings where I only got trickle truth about who they actually wer. I think they are all a direct product of this shitty upbringing. I'm lucky to maybe have a cure for my condition coming in the next 10 years or so and as shitty as it sounds I am ready to be out of this, not just to have full vision, I'm ready to be separated from this community that has caused me so much drama and pain this past year. There was a part of me that wasn't even sure if I would take a cure if offered because it had become such a part of me, but not anymore, I'm almost ashamed because of this people.
I've had a lot of luck with online communities and I really appreciate the engaging discussion here, but I really feel like I should have gone with my gut on even agreeing to meet this person and just not because I haven't met very many emotionally functional blind people and I don't want to role those dice again. In this case I just didn't realize how dysfunctional they were until I got sucked in.
KillerLag 2 points 5y ago
Sometimes, you just need to cut your losses and not deal with some people. That is what I ended up doing.
Nothing wrong with become a TVI, but you also have to remember that for some people, learning some skills may literally be an impossibility because of additional health concerns. I once worked with a young client who had the brittle bone disease.... his muscle tone was so poor, holding a cardboard tactile diagram was actually exhausting to him.
And if you work as a TVI, you may end up getting sucked into drama that is even harder to escape from (sometimes there is drama at my work, and despite everyone being "professionals", some people are... not good people).
Nothing wrong with become a TVI, but you also have to remember that for some people, learning some skills may literally be an impossibility because of additional health concerns. I once worked with a young client who had the brittle bone disease.... his muscle tone was so poor, holding a cardboard tactile diagram was actually exhausting to him.
And if you work as a TVI, you may end up getting sucked into drama that is even harder to escape from (sometimes there is drama at my work, and despite everyone being "professionals", some people are... not good people).
bondolo 4 points 5y ago
Most insular communities have these problems. Small town VFW/Legion posts and religious congregations for example.
A good percentage of blind people are unaffiliated to avoid this kind of toxicity, drama and dysfunction. It is certainly not NFB specific; we have heard much the same about ACB at various times. NFB does though seem to have a larger cadre of "lifers" who trudge on and tolerate or ignore the poisonous elements of their community. In doing so they are effectively enabling them. It is unbelievably unlikely that your ex is the chapter presidents only victim. If you know or suspect any of it was criminal you should at minimum encourage those affected to report it. Many blind people consider the political/advocacy organizations to be their safest community and it is sad that this is frequently false. For lack of any other social connections or community they cling to them in spite of the frequently horrible behaviour going on.
It is important that everyone have peers that share similar life experiences. It is better if you are able to choose those peers from the entire blind population. Not every blind person is your peer; you should still be selective and use good judgement about who you want to be around, who makes you happy, and who makes you a better person. There are good blind people out there! To be a whole person you are going to have to also find peers outside of the blindness community among professionals and the legal community you are planning to join. You may want to look for mentors and peers from organizations like the disability bar association.
/u/bondolo and /u/accessaces
A good percentage of blind people are unaffiliated to avoid this kind of toxicity, drama and dysfunction. It is certainly not NFB specific; we have heard much the same about ACB at various times. NFB does though seem to have a larger cadre of "lifers" who trudge on and tolerate or ignore the poisonous elements of their community. In doing so they are effectively enabling them. It is unbelievably unlikely that your ex is the chapter presidents only victim. If you know or suspect any of it was criminal you should at minimum encourage those affected to report it. Many blind people consider the political/advocacy organizations to be their safest community and it is sad that this is frequently false. For lack of any other social connections or community they cling to them in spite of the frequently horrible behaviour going on.
It is important that everyone have peers that share similar life experiences. It is better if you are able to choose those peers from the entire blind population. Not every blind person is your peer; you should still be selective and use good judgement about who you want to be around, who makes you happy, and who makes you a better person. There are good blind people out there! To be a whole person you are going to have to also find peers outside of the blindness community among professionals and the legal community you are planning to join. You may want to look for mentors and peers from organizations like the disability bar association.
/u/bondolo and /u/accessaces
blindthrowaway12 [OP] 2 points 5y ago
God you are so right about the lifers who just ignore it. The state president is completely aware of the chapter president's actions and she chooses to ignore it with an almost "boys will be boys" type of blase attitude. He is also an employee of the state's blind services and my ex did file a report and point them towards four other victims or potential victims. To my knowledge he has now lost his job.
After she came clean to me about her past with him months into our relationship I asked for complete transparency and communication to be locked to just NFB matters, social stuff needed to stop. She agreed but continued doing it behind my back. When she went solo to the conference I asked her if she could, for me, keep clear of him. She agreed but then proceeded to go to parties in his suite and get drunk and high with him (we are from a legal state and he is a dumb enough person to smuggle marijuana through TSA).
Like I said, obviously there were further issues that she needed to work on, I mean she had not a week prior filed a report to the services for the blind via their HR agency. I'm glad I figured this out before I had anymore of a commitment with her other than a lease which was relatively easy to sort out compared to a divorce. If I had gone to the conference and sucked away at my savings to make it happen I would have maybe postponed the inevitable.
Thank you /u/bondoo and /u/acessaces for your thoughtful response. I hope I find some people, probably unaffiliated who I can relate with. I think the NFB, at least where I am able to get involved is just too toxic and I really have grown to dislike many of the people in it. I've got a lot of sighted friends who I would much rather spend my time with anyway.
I miss my ex dearly but I almost feel as if she is a product of what the NFB did to her, and I don't want to get sucked into that drama or that self-destructive spiral anymore.
After she came clean to me about her past with him months into our relationship I asked for complete transparency and communication to be locked to just NFB matters, social stuff needed to stop. She agreed but continued doing it behind my back. When she went solo to the conference I asked her if she could, for me, keep clear of him. She agreed but then proceeded to go to parties in his suite and get drunk and high with him (we are from a legal state and he is a dumb enough person to smuggle marijuana through TSA).
Like I said, obviously there were further issues that she needed to work on, I mean she had not a week prior filed a report to the services for the blind via their HR agency. I'm glad I figured this out before I had anymore of a commitment with her other than a lease which was relatively easy to sort out compared to a divorce. If I had gone to the conference and sucked away at my savings to make it happen I would have maybe postponed the inevitable.
Thank you /u/bondoo and /u/acessaces for your thoughtful response. I hope I find some people, probably unaffiliated who I can relate with. I think the NFB, at least where I am able to get involved is just too toxic and I really have grown to dislike many of the people in it. I've got a lot of sighted friends who I would much rather spend my time with anyway.
I miss my ex dearly but I almost feel as if she is a product of what the NFB did to her, and I don't want to get sucked into that drama or that self-destructive spiral anymore.
fastfinge 3 points 5y ago
My personal policy, to preserve mental health, is blind friends online, sighted friends offline. There are a lot of really wonderful blindness communities online, like this one. However, as soon as you bring these communities into the "real world", you get nothing but drama. Plus, the fact that most sighted folks post nothing but images online these days means that interacting with them over the internet is not rewarding. So I'd rather spend the time strengthening my sighted friendships offline.
blindthrowaway12 [OP] 3 points 5y ago
I think that's where I need to be, there are clearly great blind people out there, I met some in guide dog training for sure, but I am so done with bouncing around different communities and finding myself instantly surrounded by drama.
Zach_of_Spades 3 points 5y ago
You are not the only person to notice this kind of thing. /u/bondolo wrote a well reasoned and thoughtful post, especially in regards to this problem being common in a lot of insular communities. There is a lot of bad behavior among blind people, but that doesn't mean you should completely give up on finding like-minded blind people to associate with. That being said, the NFB isn't for everybody. I am similar to you in that I place a high value on my independence, but I have never and will never join the nfb.
All I can say is hang in there and don't feel bad about getting these toxic people out of your life. Just because you're blind doesn't mean you have to let them implicate you in their drama and shitty behavior.
Best of luck.
All I can say is hang in there and don't feel bad about getting these toxic people out of your life. Just because you're blind doesn't mean you have to let them implicate you in their drama and shitty behavior.
Best of luck.
blindthrowaway12 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
I won't be hanging around the NFB anymore, it's all toxic and I didn't realize how much of my life was occupied by the drama of these middle aged people. I'm going into my second year of Bachelor's studies and for some reason my time was being occupied by the sex life of a 36 year old. I do hope I can find some people though, I guess I should have just gone with my gut when I was first pitched to by ACB and NFB and steered clear, it was never worth exploring.
reseatshisglasses 2 points 5y ago
This is a humanity issue and not something just in your local blind community. You'll find people on the outskirts of those gossipy groups who you can have less dramatic interactions with.
[deleted] 1 points 5y ago
[deleted]
SunnyLego 1 points 5y ago
I became a member of the Association for the Blind this year, and have noticed that a hell of a lot of people hate each other.
NaanShred 1 points 5y ago
I've noticed similar toxic / immature behaviour in the UK. Lots of adult-children who can barely look after themselves and / or act appropriately / do anything useful, unfortunately due to coddling parenting. Thankfully, i've found that if you stick to those who have their shit together and know people outside of the ... "Community," i've had better luck. It sounds like you and your brother should be fine in life and to be honest, make sure you aren't just stuck in the bubble.
bradley22 1 points 5y ago
Hi.
I'm from the uK and live in London. I'll admit that I don't go to many of these blind orgonisations apart from the RNIB if there is new equipment out, (although I find the RNIB to be way to expencive) and there's another one to do with sports and things like that that I can't remember. I've not seen much shit in the UK blind "comunity" having said that, I don't go out much and don't have many blind friends I can see on a dayly basses. I have one friend who is blidn and is very close to me and that's about it. Can you give me some examples of the stuff you've seen?
I'm from the uK and live in London. I'll admit that I don't go to many of these blind orgonisations apart from the RNIB if there is new equipment out, (although I find the RNIB to be way to expencive) and there's another one to do with sports and things like that that I can't remember. I've not seen much shit in the UK blind "comunity" having said that, I don't go out much and don't have many blind friends I can see on a dayly basses. I have one friend who is blidn and is very close to me and that's about it. Can you give me some examples of the stuff you've seen?
blindthrowaway12 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
I just thought they had their shit together because they had apartments in an expensive city and good paying careers. I'm leaving out the companies again for location privacy but one of them is a web developer for a major company here paying him $120,000. He should be able to function like a productive member of society. The chapter president like I mentioned in another comment worked for state services for the blind. Yet all of them act like children with no control over their behavior. I hope I kind find some unaffiliated people, I think I am just going to leave the cesspool alone from here on out, they are way too toxic for me to attend the monthly meetings anymore.
modulus 1 points 5y ago
Completely different country and context, but I would add that while I've had some experiences like this with blind people, it seems far from universal to me.
Other posts have gone into some of the reasons, like insularity and being allowed things that shouldn't be allowed. I remember when I went to school guys used to joke with me how I could just "accidentally" bump into girls' breasts, but it would never come to my mind to actually do this.
The issues with dating drama and so on... I find a little easier to understand. The community is usually small and people know each other and their entire past. Many blind people find it difficult to date outside the blind community, so there is not a lot of chances and what chances arise are often taken. People can also feel desperate for human contact and do things they shouldn't, be too pushy, etc.
I think women maybe get the worst of this, in that they often get judged by people for their promiscuity, but at the same time that's how many of them manage to get attention.
I'm not particularly into monogamy myself, but I believe in being open and honest about things like this. I add this part because some of it sounds like a complaint about people having many dating or sex partners, which I don't think is a problem as such. The problem is when there are other expectations or norms and people have to lie about it and so on.
Other posts have gone into some of the reasons, like insularity and being allowed things that shouldn't be allowed. I remember when I went to school guys used to joke with me how I could just "accidentally" bump into girls' breasts, but it would never come to my mind to actually do this.
The issues with dating drama and so on... I find a little easier to understand. The community is usually small and people know each other and their entire past. Many blind people find it difficult to date outside the blind community, so there is not a lot of chances and what chances arise are often taken. People can also feel desperate for human contact and do things they shouldn't, be too pushy, etc.
I think women maybe get the worst of this, in that they often get judged by people for their promiscuity, but at the same time that's how many of them manage to get attention.
I'm not particularly into monogamy myself, but I believe in being open and honest about things like this. I add this part because some of it sounds like a complaint about people having many dating or sex partners, which I don't think is a problem as such. The problem is when there are other expectations or norms and people have to lie about it and so on.
blindthrowaway12 [OP] 2 points 5y ago
My issue isn't with sexual promiscuity really at all, I'm not a puritan by any stretch of the imagination. My issues at least on that front surround the obvious infidelity that I experienced in my ex's case but which seems to be rampant in my local community with other community members in particular. I don't have an issue with people for whom monogamy isn't their thing, but sucking people in for whom it does matter such as myself, particularly right after we had moved in is a bit of an issue for me.
My other issue is older men preying on younger vulnerable women which I have seen a lot of (I am aware of at least 5 cases in my local community alone regarding the chapter president). I'm sure it can also go the other way around.
That is one facet, the facet that caused me to leave my chapter and never to speak to them again. But that does not preclude my main issue which is the fucking incessant, non-stop drama. I heard stories about the new years party which I missed for fucking months and it was all such childish bullshit. Texts and emails were flying at everyone and I was the second youngest member of the chapter next to my now ex.
That's my issue, I feel like everyone is emotionally stunted and the people who do act like adults (like our state chapter president who also lives in the local community) do nothing about it. They are aware of everything and they choose to just allow this shitty, sometimes borderline illegal, at the very least toxic and immature behavior to occur with zero repercussions even though they have the power to do something about it.
My other issue is older men preying on younger vulnerable women which I have seen a lot of (I am aware of at least 5 cases in my local community alone regarding the chapter president). I'm sure it can also go the other way around.
That is one facet, the facet that caused me to leave my chapter and never to speak to them again. But that does not preclude my main issue which is the fucking incessant, non-stop drama. I heard stories about the new years party which I missed for fucking months and it was all such childish bullshit. Texts and emails were flying at everyone and I was the second youngest member of the chapter next to my now ex.
That's my issue, I feel like everyone is emotionally stunted and the people who do act like adults (like our state chapter president who also lives in the local community) do nothing about it. They are aware of everything and they choose to just allow this shitty, sometimes borderline illegal, at the very least toxic and immature behavior to occur with zero repercussions even though they have the power to do something about it.
Nighthawk321 1 points 5y ago
I wouldn't call the community toxic, more lazy and immature than anything. I hang around audiogames.net a lot, but I don't really socialize with many blind people, other than a handful, because of the reasons you mentioned. Add that to how many of them seem to rotate on who's dating who, lol.
bradley22 0 points 5y ago
Hi. As I said in another post on this thread I am living in the UK in London. I will admit that I do like to touch, not grab by any means and if a woman told me to stop I would stop straight away. i'm talking about hooking my arm and placing my hand on there bellies to see if they are chubby or not plus I am looking for a girlfriend and that is one way I feel I could get to "look" at the person. As I said before if they told me to stop I would stop straight away. My side of the argument when it comes to touching is this; how else are we as blind people meant to know what a person looks like? if we are looking for a boyfriend/girlfriend, yes, going off of voice is good but what if we have preferences?
As for getting out of the NFB and those kind of comunities, I'm glad for you that you are out of there. It didn't sound nice. The sexual stuff I wouldn't have minded, a bit of playing never hurt anyone in my oppinion as long as you're not stupid, but the drama would have pissed me off.
As for getting out of the NFB and those kind of comunities, I'm glad for you that you are out of there. It didn't sound nice. The sexual stuff I wouldn't have minded, a bit of playing never hurt anyone in my oppinion as long as you're not stupid, but the drama would have pissed me off.
Nighthawk321 5 points 5y ago
Noone has responded, so I guess I will. Touching a stranger in any sort of way is an invasion of privacy. Furthermore, putting your hand on a woman's belly is extremely creepy. I mean, so creepy to the point where I'm not surprised that you don't have a girlfriend. I seriously have to stress that this behavior is very creepy. If you want to know if a woman is chubby or skinny, you have to take a different approach. For example, instead of doing what you've been doing, talk to her about your interests and hobbies: maybe she'll mention she likes some sort of physical activity. Or, you can just ask, "Do you like to exercise?", though this just depends on the person and where the conversation is at. Another suggestion would be if you two are walking somewhere, have her guide you and see if her arm is slim or fat. All I can do is stress that hooking your arm around a woman to feel her stomach is not good at all.
Loving_Light 2 points 5y ago
Oh, thank god somebody said it.
I read this and cringed.
I don't pretend to have my shit completely together but I know this at least. Some people are really weird about touching, folks.
There are many reasons, some silly, they just don't like it (which is perfectly valid, and should still be respected), right up to they've had bad things happen (I' being euphemistic here on purpose) to them and it makes the m remember such things (not a great feeling, I imagine).
On the subject of bad touch:
I've had someone just randomly decide I needed help across the street. I had heard the signal go off, and was making my way across fine, and then this person just grabs me out of nowhere and "helps" me out. I knew what they were trying to do, and I knew they meant well, but sweet Jesus it creeped me out.
I still have some degree of useful vision (I'm legally blind, but I have enough to generally be able to have at least some idea where I'm going, though it's often the case that I have close calls in terms of collisions at times.
Anyway, in the sighted world, touch is a much, much more personal thing. It's in many ways an intimate act, especially anywhere other than the arms (the back is usually also at least somewhat okay, but don't go below the waist. On women, the front of the torso is definitely a nope. It's kinda weird with guys as well, soo probably best to just avoid this.Another one that's also forgotten... hair is actually really personal for some as well. In fact, best to avoid the face too. It's generally considered a pretty intimate place to touch. Ditto below the waist and to the knees. Below the knees are a little less so, but it's still kinda odd. With a friend or someone you know though, feet are usually okay, if, again, rather weird, at least in Western cultures.The feet are actually considered impure by many middle eastern, and eastern cultures, so that's worth being aware of. So if you have reason to suspect somebody is from there, or part of Africa, it's best not to touch the feet, as it can be an unholy act in many religions and can cause much offense.
I read this and cringed.
I don't pretend to have my shit completely together but I know this at least. Some people are really weird about touching, folks.
There are many reasons, some silly, they just don't like it (which is perfectly valid, and should still be respected), right up to they've had bad things happen (I' being euphemistic here on purpose) to them and it makes the m remember such things (not a great feeling, I imagine).
On the subject of bad touch:
I've had someone just randomly decide I needed help across the street. I had heard the signal go off, and was making my way across fine, and then this person just grabs me out of nowhere and "helps" me out. I knew what they were trying to do, and I knew they meant well, but sweet Jesus it creeped me out.
I still have some degree of useful vision (I'm legally blind, but I have enough to generally be able to have at least some idea where I'm going, though it's often the case that I have close calls in terms of collisions at times.
Anyway, in the sighted world, touch is a much, much more personal thing. It's in many ways an intimate act, especially anywhere other than the arms (the back is usually also at least somewhat okay, but don't go below the waist. On women, the front of the torso is definitely a nope. It's kinda weird with guys as well, soo probably best to just avoid this.Another one that's also forgotten... hair is actually really personal for some as well. In fact, best to avoid the face too. It's generally considered a pretty intimate place to touch. Ditto below the waist and to the knees. Below the knees are a little less so, but it's still kinda odd. With a friend or someone you know though, feet are usually okay, if, again, rather weird, at least in Western cultures.The feet are actually considered impure by many middle eastern, and eastern cultures, so that's worth being aware of. So if you have reason to suspect somebody is from there, or part of Africa, it's best not to touch the feet, as it can be an unholy act in many religions and can cause much offense.
bradley22 1 points 5y ago
The way I see it is this, sighted people can look so I am looking in my own way. As I said before I do not grab and will stop if a woman tells me to do so. I don't see what's so creepy about this? Do you find it creepy because you'd not like it done to you? As for the arm thing, with your way of looking at it, am I not doing the same thing? I mean, i'm not touching a flat belly or chubby belly, or putting it in another way, i'm not touching a flat surfice but I'm still touching a part of the woman. What makes it creapy to you to touch a womans belly when hooking the arm but it's perfectly fine to hold their elbo and check out their arm to see whether they are chubby or not?
Nighthawk321 3 points 5y ago
This is a seriously misconstrued way of thinking. You're a blind person living in a sighted world, not a blind person living in an equal world. You need to understand personable bubbles and boundaries. I'm saying this, yes, because I wouldn't like it, but also because I'm positive it would make others uncomfortable. The arm technique is better because you would be holding onto their arm for sighted guide: it gives you a practical reason to touch them. How would you feel if you were in public and a random person came up to you and began feeling your body?
bradley22 -1 points 5y ago
Honestly? that would depend. I may not like being touched much, although I'm getting used to it, but if this person was nice, friendly and could hold a good convosation, then go for it. As for the equal world comment. I am living in an equal world,, I have the same chances as anyone else does. No I don't want to get a job and I wish to volunteer and will probably do that for the rest of my life. so if we take the job out of this, I'd say I'm living pretty equaly to everyone else.
bradley22 1 points 5y ago
What isn't good about it exactly? Yes I'll be the first to admit I don't like being touched much, but the women don't say anything and trust me, I do ask them, is this okay or would you prefer me to hold your elbo. The women I have asked don't seam to mind and if they do and they don't mention it and instead say it is fine, how am I to know they are uncomfortable? I don't know if I will stop doing it, sure i'm getting older but no one seems to mind so I don't think I will.
Nighthawk321 3 points 5y ago
The reason you don't think they mind is because you can't see their facial expressions. You also can't read minds. You also answered your question. The reason it isn't good is because not everyone likes to be touched, especially on a place like their stomach. If you don't like to be touched very much, then what makes you think others will like it? Being blind doesn't give you a good reason to feel people at will.
bradley22 0 points 5y ago
I am getting used to being touched and i'm sorry but if they're truely uncomfortable, then it is best they say something. None have so far and if that's all I have to go off of, then I'll go off of that. As I said, it's not like I'm grabbing them.
cajwalkman 1 points 5y ago
If you need to find out if a woman is fat, just ask:
"By the way, on a scale of 1-10 where 10 is strongly agree, do you agree with the following statements:
1) Airline seats have become increasingly tight and difficult to fit into
2) A salad by itself makes a complete meal
3) It is not easy to find normal, attractive clothing in my size
4) Sometimes, at fast food restaurants, I notice myself ordering larger orders than other customers
5) On a crowded beach in swimming attire, I feel as good about my body as if dressed for work or school
6) A meal is not complete without dessert"
Etc
If you actually touch a woman's stomach, what happens if you actually grab a big fat roll? Then you will completely humiliate her
Maybe no one got mad at you yet but sooner or later you will do it to the wrong person
"By the way, on a scale of 1-10 where 10 is strongly agree, do you agree with the following statements:
1) Airline seats have become increasingly tight and difficult to fit into
2) A salad by itself makes a complete meal
3) It is not easy to find normal, attractive clothing in my size
4) Sometimes, at fast food restaurants, I notice myself ordering larger orders than other customers
5) On a crowded beach in swimming attire, I feel as good about my body as if dressed for work or school
6) A meal is not complete without dessert"
Etc
If you actually touch a woman's stomach, what happens if you actually grab a big fat roll? Then you will completely humiliate her
Maybe no one got mad at you yet but sooner or later you will do it to the wrong person
bradley22 1 points 5y ago
But how would I grab it? I mean as I've said before, I don't grab. my hand just... I dunno, falls there, I guess you could say and lol no, I think I might get punched or at least told off more if I asked them those questions compared to resting my hand against their belly and arm to go to where ever it is we are going.
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc • HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.