Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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mom of legally blind 17 month old (self.Blind)
submitted by getthefacts
My daughter is 17 months and is legally blind and cannot walk yet. We got a white cane for her and it's her favorite "toy". When we go to new places, she freezes, gets scared, and won't explore. I want her to feel comfortable to participate like any other kid. Someone suggested bringing the cane with her. I'm so nervous about it and don't want pitiful looks from others. I know I need to get over that though. How was your first experience bringing the cane out in the real world? On a side note: I feel like we're in limbo because as she matures, her vision may improve and then maybe she won't need the white cane.
aberrante 112 points 5y ago
Who are others? Other adults or other children?
My wife has been blind since birth: she has told me about the bad experiences with many other kids. Kids tend to be harmful to one another, regardless of blindness: it is more a lack of awareness of the consequences of their actions, than actual cruelty. This went on throughout her childhood and potentially peaked at around her 10-12 years of age. However, she found other kids that she could play with and that were respectful/mindful of her disability.
Other adults become a problem not as a child, but rather as an adult. Having grown up with the habit of self-advocating and putting herself out there, she has learned how to navigate the adult world to the point that she has held high-ranking jobs, completed advanced graduate degrees and moved from a developing to a developed country.
My advice to you would be to experiment with the white cane, expose her to guide dogs, assistive technology and help her become resilient. Take it one step at a time: your daughter may be better off learning to walk in a familiar place (say, with her hand in front of her), before she is able to walk in unfamiliar places with a white cane.
Finally, be mindful of your fears: the pitiful looks, as you call them, will always be there. It is important that you don't transmit your fears to your daughter.
Good luck!
My wife has been blind since birth: she has told me about the bad experiences with many other kids. Kids tend to be harmful to one another, regardless of blindness: it is more a lack of awareness of the consequences of their actions, than actual cruelty. This went on throughout her childhood and potentially peaked at around her 10-12 years of age. However, she found other kids that she could play with and that were respectful/mindful of her disability.
Other adults become a problem not as a child, but rather as an adult. Having grown up with the habit of self-advocating and putting herself out there, she has learned how to navigate the adult world to the point that she has held high-ranking jobs, completed advanced graduate degrees and moved from a developing to a developed country.
My advice to you would be to experiment with the white cane, expose her to guide dogs, assistive technology and help her become resilient. Take it one step at a time: your daughter may be better off learning to walk in a familiar place (say, with her hand in front of her), before she is able to walk in unfamiliar places with a white cane.
Finally, be mindful of your fears: the pitiful looks, as you call them, will always be there. It is important that you don't transmit your fears to your daughter.
Good luck!
getthefacts [OP] 38 points 5y ago
As to the "others"-- I was referring to adults staring. And I'm worried about children pulling on her white cane or trying to take it. Thank you! I definitely don't want her to associate my nervousness with there being something wrong with the white cane. I'm generally a shy person and don't like attention. My daughter does have some vision and wears glasses.
Nighthawk321 31 points 5y ago
This is good advice, except for one point. Definitely don't try to get her a guide dog. It's advised to be at least 16 before a person gets one.
getthefacts [OP] 16 points 5y ago
A guide dog is no even on our radar at the moment!
SlapstickVampire 14 points 5y ago
I am not blind, came here because of a post from another subreddit, why aren't guide dogs recommended below 16?
edit: removed accidental quote
edit: removed accidental quote
getthefacts [OP] 16 points 5y ago
for us at least, my daughter is way too young. She needs to learn so much more before she can be responsible enough to manage a dog. Also, I think the goal is to learn independence without a dog and then bring a dog in to help, if she would want to.
mamatobee328 11 points 5y ago
Before a visually impaired person can benefit from a guide dog, they have to be an independent traveler with a cane. This takes years and lots of practice. This would also need to encompass much more than ones home and school. Can the person navigate getting to the bus stop, going to the store, etc. independently? A young teenager would likely not have the need for this kind of independence yet and would also likely not have had the necessary experience. Second, you have to take into consideration why the person needs a dog and if they can justify those needs along with the responsibility of caring for it. Raising and training a dog to become a seeing eye dog is a long and costly endeavor. They must be placed with independent adults who can not only care for them but fully utilize their training.
Nighthawk321 3 points 5y ago
Because imagine the responsibility of a dog, now imagine the responsibility of a guide dog. They're a whole lot more complex than untrained dogs.
Sommiel 2 points 5y ago
Guide Dogs of America does not allow people under the age of 18 to get dogs. Guiding Eyes cuts off at 16.
It's mostly a legal ownership issue.
It's also that you need to demonstrate strong leadership capabilities to have a guide dog.
It's mostly a legal ownership issue.
It's also that you need to demonstrate strong leadership capabilities to have a guide dog.
BARDLover 6 points 5y ago
Why would it matter if adults stare?
There is no way to prevent it, all you can do is get used to it.
There is no way to prevent it, all you can do is get used to it.
getthefacts [OP] 5 points 5y ago
You're right. I just don't like attention.
BARDLover 6 points 5y ago
Neither do I, and neither does my fiancé, but being blind, or being with someone that is blind, will get you attention.
For me, it kept me from going out, a lot, for a long time.
I'd sit at home, read, write, play with LEGO, or play some of the games I could. So, pretty boring life.
Then I went to the OTC, a training center for the blind ran by the DSB. I had to commute, I had to explore, and I loved it.
After graduating, I got a great job, travel around the world, skydive, white water raft, go on long hikes, tandem bike, and I'm taking up snowboarding in the next few weeks.
By all measures, and I don't say this to be boastful, I am a successful person, I am an awesome person, doing awesome things, with awesome people. I don't do these things because I'm blind, but or to spite being blind, I do them because they're fun, and they entertain me.
Still, walking down the Seattle streets to go see a play, my fiancé gets those looks. "Oh, it's so nice of you to date a blind man." "Oh, bless you for dealing with him." and "I couldn't deal with that kind of burden." ...
No matter what she does, or who she becomes, she will get looks, and the people she is with will get those looks.
All you can do is support her, and teach her, and yourself, that their thoughts, their opinions, and their judgement means absolutely nothing, and has absolutely no value.
Other toddlers taking her cane is a perfectly valid concern, and to counteract that I'd suggest trying to find some local blindness support groups, that might have meet ups. If while she's playing she can make do without it, great, just use it while navigating around like I do. Otherwise, the other kids will just need to learn that it's like a crutch, wheel chair, or cane used for support, she needs it, and it's not a toy.
Sorry if I'm coming across as a little bit course, or judgemental, I just don't like the thought of a little girl being limited in life due to other peoples concerns of judgement.
For me, it kept me from going out, a lot, for a long time.
I'd sit at home, read, write, play with LEGO, or play some of the games I could. So, pretty boring life.
Then I went to the OTC, a training center for the blind ran by the DSB. I had to commute, I had to explore, and I loved it.
After graduating, I got a great job, travel around the world, skydive, white water raft, go on long hikes, tandem bike, and I'm taking up snowboarding in the next few weeks.
By all measures, and I don't say this to be boastful, I am a successful person, I am an awesome person, doing awesome things, with awesome people. I don't do these things because I'm blind, but or to spite being blind, I do them because they're fun, and they entertain me.
Still, walking down the Seattle streets to go see a play, my fiancé gets those looks. "Oh, it's so nice of you to date a blind man." "Oh, bless you for dealing with him." and "I couldn't deal with that kind of burden." ...
No matter what she does, or who she becomes, she will get looks, and the people she is with will get those looks.
All you can do is support her, and teach her, and yourself, that their thoughts, their opinions, and their judgement means absolutely nothing, and has absolutely no value.
Other toddlers taking her cane is a perfectly valid concern, and to counteract that I'd suggest trying to find some local blindness support groups, that might have meet ups. If while she's playing she can make do without it, great, just use it while navigating around like I do. Otherwise, the other kids will just need to learn that it's like a crutch, wheel chair, or cane used for support, she needs it, and it's not a toy.
Sorry if I'm coming across as a little bit course, or judgemental, I just don't like the thought of a little girl being limited in life due to other peoples concerns of judgement.
BARDLover 8 points 5y ago
I make 6 figures in a podunk town, travel the world, skydive, WW raft, and am taking up snowboarding.
When with my fiance, she gets the “bless you” look many times a day.
It’s part of reality. All you can do is laugh it off and succeed.
When with my fiance, she gets the “bless you” look many times a day.
It’s part of reality. All you can do is laugh it off and succeed.
royal_rose_ 2 points 5y ago
I don't want to be intrusive so you don't have to answer but how do you snowboard? I get the rest because there are auditory/ movement cues to react to but with snowboarding "reading" the snow is so important to know when to turn, slow down, carve etc. I only ask because I've been boarding for years and have misread snow causing me to pitch and end up ass over head.
BARDLover 2 points 5y ago
Experienced blind people I know have a sighted guide in front or behind giving instructions. I haven't gone yet, taking it up though, first lesson a week from Saturday, and it's all going to be audbased.
There's actually quite an active blind skiing and snoboarding community, both cross country and down hill.
I'm sure I'll be landing ass over head many, many, times.
There's actually quite an active blind skiing and snoboarding community, both cross country and down hill.
I'm sure I'll be landing ass over head many, many, times.
royal_rose_ 2 points 5y ago
Now that I think about I think I've encountered a few of these pairings on slopes before, the guides are all super smart and reactive to what is going on. Even people that have been boarding for years fall all the time lol. Good luck!
Amonwilde 15 points 5y ago
My advice is let her use the cane in public and encourage her to explore even if that means feeling a bit lost or bumping around.
You might want to read about Daniel Kish who is a totally blind person raised to explore and who can ride bikes and go hiking, among other things.
https://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kish_how_i_use_sonar_to_navigate_the_world
https://visioneers.org/
The real danger is being too overprotective. It's hard, but encourage her to explore and bang her head on things. Best of luck!
You might want to read about Daniel Kish who is a totally blind person raised to explore and who can ride bikes and go hiking, among other things.
https://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kish_how_i_use_sonar_to_navigate_the_world
https://visioneers.org/
The real danger is being too overprotective. It's hard, but encourage her to explore and bang her head on things. Best of luck!
getthefacts [OP] 5 points 5y ago
thanks, I will look at the links. ooohh, it's so hard to not be over protective, but I'm trying!
Amonwilde 4 points 5y ago
Yeah, all the pressure on you is to be overprotective but all the benefits go the other way. She's in a lot more danger from losing out then she is from being seriously hurt. I wish you both the best.
[deleted] 3 points 5y ago
[deleted]
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Thanks. I don't see it as a big limitation to my daughter's future and don't want anyone else to see it that way either. I just hate the look of shock or sadness I see on people's faces when they ask about her vision.
To my husband and I, it isn't a big deal and we will talk about it matter of factly, but it's harder to talk about with extended family. I realize I need to be more comfortable doing so.
To my husband and I, it isn't a big deal and we will talk about it matter of factly, but it's harder to talk about with extended family. I realize I need to be more comfortable doing so.
Fyreraven 1 points 5y ago
Can she see the looks of shock or sadness?
danjouswoodenhand 6 points 5y ago
When you say legally blind - to what extent is that? I have two legally blind children and their abilities and experiences are very different. My son can't see out of one eye at all, but with his other eye he can wear a -17 contact lens and see OK - he has glasses to help out with reading, but you'd never know he was blind if you saw him. He doesn't use a cane at all but has been legally blind his entire life. My daughter has slightly better vision, wears glasses for her good eye, but can only see light/movement out of the other eye. She was visually impaired until about 6 months ago, when she crossed the threshold for legally blind due to her lack of peripheral vision. She feels more comfortable when using a cane, and does so most of the time. She started using a cane in high school and had a few encounters with people not paying attention and running into it. The funniest was when some girls asked her brother (when they found out he was blind) if he knew 'that girl who pretends to be blind and uses a cane.' He got to set them straight that day but thought it was pretty funny.
Anyway, your daughter's experience will certainly depend upon what (if any) vision she has, what sort of training she gets, and how much support you can give her. Encourage her to explore new places, and keep in mind that the whole separation anxiety/nervousness in new situations isn't a blind thing at all - it's a 17-month old child thing!
I wouldn't worry too much about pitying looks from adults. It's not like she'll see them anyway! As she gets older and more comfortable she'll cope better and most people will just let her be - I know my daughter has had a few people try to 'help' her, but once they realize that she's pretty capable on her own, they treat her like anyone else.
Anyway, your daughter's experience will certainly depend upon what (if any) vision she has, what sort of training she gets, and how much support you can give her. Encourage her to explore new places, and keep in mind that the whole separation anxiety/nervousness in new situations isn't a blind thing at all - it's a 17-month old child thing!
I wouldn't worry too much about pitying looks from adults. It's not like she'll see them anyway! As she gets older and more comfortable she'll cope better and most people will just let her be - I know my daughter has had a few people try to 'help' her, but once they realize that she's pretty capable on her own, they treat her like anyone else.
getthefacts [OP] 3 points 5y ago
My daughter can see some and wears glasses but we don't know how much or how clear it is to her. The doctor said we won't really know until she can tell us. She is behind in her gross/fine motor skills and speech as she was born prematurely. It's hard to separate all of these factors out and determine what is due to her not seeing well / what is due to being a preemie / what's normal.
For example, for the longest time she would just sit and not move to explore, even at home. Now she knows where everything is at home and daycare and she'll go right to it. But when we're in a new/unfamiliar place and I set her on the ground to play, she would stay put, not move, or explore, just listen. I think also she's scared. Eventually she will start to move around a little bit, but it takes a long time.
For example, for the longest time she would just sit and not move to explore, even at home. Now she knows where everything is at home and daycare and she'll go right to it. But when we're in a new/unfamiliar place and I set her on the ground to play, she would stay put, not move, or explore, just listen. I think also she's scared. Eventually she will start to move around a little bit, but it takes a long time.
mamatobee328 4 points 5y ago
Exposure is never a bad thing. However, I would not give a cane to a child who cannot walk (I’m sorry I missed that in your original post). Usually, you start with “pre-canes” that lead the way to a cane. A push toy is a good starting point. The teacher for the blind should do a complete assessment when she meets your daughter.
As for going out in public, I would try to be encouraging and supportive with your daughter. Explain all the sounds she is hearing and explore new things with her to show her that it’s safe and okay.
As for going out in public, I would try to be encouraging and supportive with your daughter. Explain all the sounds she is hearing and explore new things with her to show her that it’s safe and okay.
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
ok thanks
JackEsq 3 points 5y ago
Fellow parent of a visually impaired child here. My daughter is now 2.5 and I try and encourage her to take her cane everywhere so that she gets used to using it. Usually it is just from the car to the destination and once she is in a familiar environment she will hand me the cane. She wears glasses and has some functional vision she is around 20/200 currently. Did your doctor use Teller Acuity Cards to test her vision?
I'm not going to lie, you will get some looks from people, but I wouldn't call it pitiful. It is more like a double take. It is likely to be the first blind person they have ever encountered and rarer still to see such a young child. With adults, they just look briefly and that's it. I can count on one hand the number of times people have spoken to me or asked any follow up questions, it just doesn't happen. I personally wouldn't mind talking about her and her condition, but no one asks. So let them look, not a big deal.
As for other children, they might simply ask "what's that?" You can simply respond that it is a cane and it helps your daughter because she can't see as well. It is important to remember the cane is NOT a toy, it is a tool used for a specific purpose. No one, including your daughter should treat it as a toy. Kids understand when things are "not a toy" and that's about the extent of reactions I've had to deal with.
As for her exploring, it is important for your to encourage her. She might just be an overly-cautious personality (I sometimes wish mine was a bit more cautious) that said, she also might be responding to your own anxiety. It will help to get a TVI involved, but you should also get a orientation and mobility teacher to work with your daughter (and you) as well.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
I'm not going to lie, you will get some looks from people, but I wouldn't call it pitiful. It is more like a double take. It is likely to be the first blind person they have ever encountered and rarer still to see such a young child. With adults, they just look briefly and that's it. I can count on one hand the number of times people have spoken to me or asked any follow up questions, it just doesn't happen. I personally wouldn't mind talking about her and her condition, but no one asks. So let them look, not a big deal.
As for other children, they might simply ask "what's that?" You can simply respond that it is a cane and it helps your daughter because she can't see as well. It is important to remember the cane is NOT a toy, it is a tool used for a specific purpose. No one, including your daughter should treat it as a toy. Kids understand when things are "not a toy" and that's about the extent of reactions I've had to deal with.
As for her exploring, it is important for your to encourage her. She might just be an overly-cautious personality (I sometimes wish mine was a bit more cautious) that said, she also might be responding to your own anxiety. It will help to get a TVI involved, but you should also get a orientation and mobility teacher to work with your daughter (and you) as well.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Thank you! I am not sure how they tested her visual acuity as she was around 12 months when she was first diagnosed. (She got glasses at 7 months.) They wrote 20/200 but it was really just a guess. They said without her glasses it's more like 20/1000. But again, just a guess. Did you take the cane out before she could walk? At home she uses it to hit against things while sitting, I think to gauge depth (maybe?).
I am not anxious when we take her out. I am excited for her to play and interact. I am more nervous about the first time we take the cane out with us, but i think i've built it up in my mind that it won't actually end up being a big deal
I am not anxious when we take her out. I am excited for her to play and interact. I am more nervous about the first time we take the cane out with us, but i think i've built it up in my mind that it won't actually end up being a big deal
JackEsq 3 points 5y ago
You would remember the Teller cards. They are long rectangular grey cards with a small square of white and black lines (almost like a TV when there is no signal). They hold up the cards and look through a small hole, they child's eye should look toward the small square. The lines on the square get progressively small and smaller and correspond to the eye chart. These are used to test small children and others who can't read letters.
She did not have a cane before she could walk and only got a "pre-cane" which was like a rolling pusher, but she didn't really like it much. We were advised by her O&M that she didn't need one before she could walk. But like everything with children, I've also read that they should get a cane ASAP so they get used to using it as an extension of herself. It seems like your daughter is already comfortable with the cane, so it might help her if she has it with her in public. My daughter doesn't use the cane in familiar environments like home, school, or playgrounds. She surprises everyone with how well she is oriented in familiar environments, so she clearly sees something. She will only run into things or trip occasionally.
Take the cane out, the only thing will shock you is how little anyone actually cares.
She did not have a cane before she could walk and only got a "pre-cane" which was like a rolling pusher, but she didn't really like it much. We were advised by her O&M that she didn't need one before she could walk. But like everything with children, I've also read that they should get a cane ASAP so they get used to using it as an extension of herself. It seems like your daughter is already comfortable with the cane, so it might help her if she has it with her in public. My daughter doesn't use the cane in familiar environments like home, school, or playgrounds. She surprises everyone with how well she is oriented in familiar environments, so she clearly sees something. She will only run into things or trip occasionally.
Take the cane out, the only thing will shock you is how little anyone actually cares.
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
😊
JackEsq 1 points 5y ago
I would also recommend that you take an online course with $1. The courses are free and they do a really good job explaining how you can adapt your parenting style to help your daughter.
cS47f496tmQHavSR 3 points 5y ago
I can't really comment on what it's like to be blind as a young kid because I am not and have never been blind, but I can comment as a parent;
Your kid does not realize that other people are staring. If she learns how to walk with a cane, be as proud as you possibly can be, and make sure she knows how proud you are. That cane is going to be her best friend and most valuable tool in life, and she needs to never feel ashamed or afraid to use it.
Don't worry about whether or not she'll need the cane later in life. If she gets to a point where she feels 100% comfortable without it that's amazing! If not, who cares? I know people who aren't even legally blind, just have really poor eyesight, and learned how to use a cane because it makes them feel much more comfortable and safe.
Tools are there to help you, it's up to you to decide if you need them or not, nobody else has the right to even comment on that
Your kid does not realize that other people are staring. If she learns how to walk with a cane, be as proud as you possibly can be, and make sure she knows how proud you are. That cane is going to be her best friend and most valuable tool in life, and she needs to never feel ashamed or afraid to use it.
Don't worry about whether or not she'll need the cane later in life. If she gets to a point where she feels 100% comfortable without it that's amazing! If not, who cares? I know people who aren't even legally blind, just have really poor eyesight, and learned how to use a cane because it makes them feel much more comfortable and safe.
Tools are there to help you, it's up to you to decide if you need them or not, nobody else has the right to even comment on that
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Thank you, I love your comment. And trust me I will be so proud times a million!
mamatobee328 3 points 5y ago
Hi! I am commenting as a professional, not as a parent of a child with a visual impairment. However, I always tell my parents/students that the cane should be an extension of them. Where they go, the cane goes. Bringing the cane will likely help your daughter feel more confident in exploring new places, which would be great! I empathize with worrying about other kids messing with the cane, even on accident. Over time, you will find that balance of helping and interfering when needed. Eventually too your daughter will learn how to defend herself! In most cases, people have never seen a cane in person and may not even know what it’s for and act of ignorance rather than malice. You can always use those opportunities to educate others!
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
thanks! Would you recommend her having it at daycare? Right now she just plays with it, chews it, and hits it against things. She cannot walk yet.
mamatobee328 1 points 5y ago
Can she walk with a push toy? Also, was she given the cane by an orientation & mobility specialist?
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
No she cannot walk with a push toy; she is cruising though. We got the cane through the national federation of the blind, not through an M&O specialist. Is that bad? We have just finalized all of the paperwork/application to have a teacher for the blind provide therapy.
pokersnek 2 points 5y ago
If you live in the US, contact your state’s department of rehabilitation or school for the visually impaired. They should be able to find you a developmental therapist or orientation and Mobility instructor who can help your child learn confidence in her own movement.
sonofabutch 2 points 5y ago
Have you looked into NAPVI or other organizations? There is a program called $1 that provides a lot of resources. Maybe you can find other children her age who also have vision problems that she can socialize with.
getthefacts [OP] 3 points 5y ago
We just moved o a new area and don't know any other children with visual impairments. However, we just finalized the paperwork at the nearby school for the blind and they are going to send a teacher. I'm hoping to make connections that way.
dmazzoni 5 points 5y ago
I have no idea about this particular school, but I've noticed that many schools for the blind have low expectations and cater towards students with multiple disabilities. If your daughter has no other disabilities than blindness, her best chance at success in life is to be "mainstreamed" along with supplemental education like braille, mobility training, etc.
getthefacts [OP] 3 points 5y ago
She is at daycare right now and she would not be enrolled in the school but rather have a teacher come and provide therapy.
dmazzoni 3 points 5y ago
Great!
From what I understand, at young ages a mix is great - some time with blind kids or with teachers specifically for blind students, and some time with mainstream kids.
Honestly at 18 months it doesn't matter socially, just try to find her any teachers who have any experience teaching young blind kids basic mobility.
From what I understand, at young ages a mix is great - some time with blind kids or with teachers specifically for blind students, and some time with mainstream kids.
Honestly at 18 months it doesn't matter socially, just try to find her any teachers who have any experience teaching young blind kids basic mobility.
mamatobee328 4 points 5y ago
You may enjoy the website wonderbaby.org. Since your daughter is young, you should sign her up for Braille Tales which is a free book service through APH & Dolly Parton. Kids up to age 6 get a new book once every other month.
http://www.aph.org/dolly-partons-imagination-library/
(I’m assuming that as a cane user, she will be a Braille reader. But i also saw that you mentioned that her vision may improve with age.)
http://www.aph.org/dolly-partons-imagination-library/
(I’m assuming that as a cane user, she will be a Braille reader. But i also saw that you mentioned that her vision may improve with age.)
IHaveAFunnyName 1 points 5y ago
My son was premature and had brain bleeds and has cortical visual impairment, is that what your daughter has?
There's some great support groups on Facebook for blind and visually impaired kiddos. Does your daughter have an orientation mobility specialist? Or teacher for the visually impaired?
We have a cane for my son but he doesn't use it too much, he is just starting to walk. We will learn to use it later I'm sure! Hood luck! I would have her use it loud and proud :) what's that for? That's her cane, she doesn't see well and it helps her move around. :) Etc. Matter of fact responses.
There's some great support groups on Facebook for blind and visually impaired kiddos. Does your daughter have an orientation mobility specialist? Or teacher for the visually impaired?
We have a cane for my son but he doesn't use it too much, he is just starting to walk. We will learn to use it later I'm sure! Hood luck! I would have her use it loud and proud :) what's that for? That's her cane, she doesn't see well and it helps her move around. :) Etc. Matter of fact responses.
getthefacts [OP] 1 points 5y ago
She had ROP, which resolved and now we're looking into CVI. We just finalized all of the paperwork so a TVI should be coming out soon. I'm really looking forward to hearing what she/he has to say!
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