Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Making cards to hand out for sighted fails (self.Blind)
submitted by saizai
For those of y'all who also use a guide cane:
I'm pretty sure we've all had the experiences of sighted people randomly grabbing us, asking questions for us to the person next to us, assuming we're dumb, moving our cane, etc etc. You know, the usual sighted fail assholes who're just "trying to help".
I'm pretty damn tired of explaining things every time, giving basic etiquette, or frankly even being more polite than a curt "please don't grab me". Let alone the more nuanced things like how to give good directions. (E.g. "it's straight ahead" is pretty much never true when coming from a sighted person...)
So... I've been thinking of making cards, like business cards, to hand out to sighted people. Anything from being a way to say "yo asshole, don't assault me" without having the confrontation, or just as a reference for etiquette basics or things sighted people don't think of that you want to convey without repeating yourself all the time.
One side would be something like a list of things in the categories of
1. please do this
2. it's OK to do this
3. don't do this
4. seriously do not ever fucking do this.
The other side would be a reference for things like how to give directions that are useful (e.g. street crossings and pavement changes, not signs; clock directions based on how you're facing, not how they're pointing, etc).
I figure I can put more effort into designing a good, condensed, polite explainer on a card than I'm willing to put into going over this shit a dozen times a day; carrying cards in my pocket and giving them out is not as annoying as being polite to someone who just randomly assaulted me; and maybe the net result would be better outreach/education that could reduce the amount of sighted fail in our lives.
What do y'all think? Would you use this? What would you want it to say?
P.S. For reference on my experience: https://s.ai/essays/blindness
I'm pretty sure we've all had the experiences of sighted people randomly grabbing us, asking questions for us to the person next to us, assuming we're dumb, moving our cane, etc etc. You know, the usual sighted fail assholes who're just "trying to help".
I'm pretty damn tired of explaining things every time, giving basic etiquette, or frankly even being more polite than a curt "please don't grab me". Let alone the more nuanced things like how to give good directions. (E.g. "it's straight ahead" is pretty much never true when coming from a sighted person...)
So... I've been thinking of making cards, like business cards, to hand out to sighted people. Anything from being a way to say "yo asshole, don't assault me" without having the confrontation, or just as a reference for etiquette basics or things sighted people don't think of that you want to convey without repeating yourself all the time.
One side would be something like a list of things in the categories of
1. please do this
2. it's OK to do this
3. don't do this
4. seriously do not ever fucking do this.
The other side would be a reference for things like how to give directions that are useful (e.g. street crossings and pavement changes, not signs; clock directions based on how you're facing, not how they're pointing, etc).
I figure I can put more effort into designing a good, condensed, polite explainer on a card than I'm willing to put into going over this shit a dozen times a day; carrying cards in my pocket and giving them out is not as annoying as being polite to someone who just randomly assaulted me; and maybe the net result would be better outreach/education that could reduce the amount of sighted fail in our lives.
What do y'all think? Would you use this? What would you want it to say?
P.S. For reference on my experience: https://s.ai/essays/blindness
KillerLag 5 points 5y ago
It's a good idea in theory, but I've found it has had some inconsistent results in real life practice. For example, using the clock face. Most people pick it up reasonably well (6 to your back, 12 in front), but I've found most people give the direction for themselves, not relative to the client. So if someone is facing you and says 9 o'clock, it actually means 3 o'clock for you. Or, people try to be precise to a stupid amount (It's at 2:15 o'clock).
Deafblind clients use a similar system, usually for soliciting aid for street crossings.
Deafblind clients use a similar system, usually for soliciting aid for street crossings.
saizai [OP] 3 points 5y ago
Suggestions for improvement are welcome. My intention was to float the idea more broadly.
I figure for the direction-giving part, it could give a little example diagram, and use that to explain how to give directions. (No need to avoid visuals, since it's for sighted recipients.)
Do you have samples of cards etc used by deafblind clients?
I figure for the direction-giving part, it could give a little example diagram, and use that to explain how to give directions. (No need to avoid visuals, since it's for sighted recipients.)
Do you have samples of cards etc used by deafblind clients?
KillerLag 2 points 5y ago
There is a kit that some deafblind clients use, although I usually work with a deafblind client with an intervenor (or shouting louder).
Here is an example of a kit from Australia, with a printable document and a few examples on the website. Not sure how accessible it is.
http://auslanemergency.com.au/index.php/deaf-deafblind/natural-hazard-emergencies/general-emergency/
Here is an article (from 1997, I didn't see anything more recent) by Dona Sauerburger regarding deafblind clients and soliciting aid with cards. There have examples of cards from the Helen Keller National Centre and another experimental card for the time period.
http://www.sauerburger.org/dona/REviewcorner.html
Here is an example of a kit from Australia, with a printable document and a few examples on the website. Not sure how accessible it is.
http://auslanemergency.com.au/index.php/deaf-deafblind/natural-hazard-emergencies/general-emergency/
Here is an article (from 1997, I didn't see anything more recent) by Dona Sauerburger regarding deafblind clients and soliciting aid with cards. There have examples of cards from the Helen Keller National Centre and another experimental card for the time period.
http://www.sauerburger.org/dona/REviewcorner.html
saizai [OP] 1 points 5y ago
$1 for collaborating on the contents.
nwbld 2 points 5y ago
These cards could be a really nice vehicle for not only informing the uninformed, but also for building true awareness and advocacy as part of a larger program. I'd suggest that in addition to the core info that you want to provide on the card itself, you could also include a URL to a site that includes even more info, examples, videos, and whatever else. The whole thing could be framed in a really positive, friendly way -- like hey, we know you mean well and want to help, so here's the best way to do it. The goal would be that anyone who receives a card not just get a few pieces of helpful info, but they also get plugged into a broader information ecosystem that helps to build awareness, advocacy, and maybe even some real empathy and compassion. The site could also host the card template for others to download (and maybe even host multilingual versions and such).
I'd be glad to help with any of this, especially the web part, if you're interested.
I'd be glad to help with any of this, especially the web part, if you're interested.
saizai [OP] 2 points 5y ago
FWIW, I think the gap in current advocacy is "here's how I want you to interact with me, specifically". There's lots of stuff about "blindies are able to do things too" and "here's what X condition is like" and all that.
I like the whole thing about getting others to understand what it's like to be blind, generating empathy - I even have run workshops on that, running sighted people through a mini crash course on navigation blindfolded w/ a cane - but that's a step or two removed.
For this, I'm thinking of something much more direct, low-level, pragmatic, and explicitly instructional. Do this, don't do that. Look at this scene, here are the things that are salient to me for giving directions. Prioritizing things that come up all the time and the person probably just screwed up which is why they got handed the card. Etc.
I like the whole thing about getting others to understand what it's like to be blind, generating empathy - I even have run workshops on that, running sighted people through a mini crash course on navigation blindfolded w/ a cane - but that's a step or two removed.
For this, I'm thinking of something much more direct, low-level, pragmatic, and explicitly instructional. Do this, don't do that. Look at this scene, here are the things that are salient to me for giving directions. Prioritizing things that come up all the time and the person probably just screwed up which is why they got handed the card. Etc.
nwbld 3 points 5y ago
Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. It really is a personal thing, for sure. The Vision Australia's page on helping blind people has a really neat way of putting it: "Approach, Ask, Assist." I like how they emphasize two distinct steps before actually doing anything to help... and in that "Ask" step, the person who might receive assistance has the opportunity to explain what they need or how they can best be helped -- or even to decline help entirely. This approach makes it personal right from the start, and yeah, it's way better than a more generic "here's all of the stuff you can do" type of guidance.
As you have me thinking about this now, I think the generic web advocacy thing actually does run counter to your goal of the direct personal interaction and point-in-time remediation that you're seeking to provide. I think there's room for both of course, but really the emphasis should be on what you're aiming to do with your cards, specifically.
As you have me thinking about this now, I think the generic web advocacy thing actually does run counter to your goal of the direct personal interaction and point-in-time remediation that you're seeking to provide. I think there's room for both of course, but really the emphasis should be on what you're aiming to do with your cards, specifically.
saizai [OP] 2 points 5y ago
Yeah, I'm thinking very much in terms of immediate, on-the-spot remediation. Like, I hand someone the card and it helps them give me directions or interact with me _right now_.
So it'd need to be much more direct and pragmatic, and give explicit instructions. The other stuff about educating generally, talking about what it's like to be blind, answering the usual curiosities or misconceptions, etc., is designed to help _them_, not to help _me_, and takes longer both to understand and to internalize.
If it takes longer than (say) 15 seconds for a sighted person with no prior knowledge to understand and act better as a result of that understanding, it doesn't belong here.
I 1000% agree with the "approach, ask, assist _if you have consent_" model. Lack of consent is the core behind pretty much all the sighted fails that feel intrusive or dangerous rather than just lulzworthy.
One of the things on the "don't _ever_ fucking do this" list would be e.g. grabbing my arm without my consent, whereas on the "OK to do this _with my consent_" list would be e.g. "touch my forearm with the _back_ of your hand so I can hold on to _your_ arm".
On a design perspective, I was thinking about having something like this on the back of the card:
* [left third] "What you see" [isometric drawing of a complex 2 by 3 block scene, including blind person facing sighted person and an X on the desired destination, omitting the things they don't usually notice, and highlighting & labeling the things that sighted people use for navigation, e.g. street signs, store names, "logical" straight, visually striking buildings, the way the sighted person is pointing, etc]
* [middle third] "What I perceive" [drawing of the same, omitting sighted cues and highlighting blind-salient cues / waypoints / etc, e.g. curbs, posts, crossings, pavement types, curb cuts, cafe smell zone, tunnels, uncovered areas, grassy shorelines, etc]
* [right third] "How to give good directions" [fully written out ideal directions to give based on this scenario]
I think something along those lines might be the best way to give a lot of implicit information about what's useful in an ultra condensed form.
Again, the middle third of this example might not be totally true for everyone using the cards. E.g. someone might actually know the local street names, or that there's a FooMart on the corner, or advanced skills like how to diagonally cross an open plaza area, even though the blind-perspective drawing would indicate that they don't and one shouldn't give instructions based on that.
However, the "assume this person is 100% blind" design will mean that everything depicted as usable _will_ be a usable feature for essentially all cane users.
So it'd need to be much more direct and pragmatic, and give explicit instructions. The other stuff about educating generally, talking about what it's like to be blind, answering the usual curiosities or misconceptions, etc., is designed to help _them_, not to help _me_, and takes longer both to understand and to internalize.
If it takes longer than (say) 15 seconds for a sighted person with no prior knowledge to understand and act better as a result of that understanding, it doesn't belong here.
I 1000% agree with the "approach, ask, assist _if you have consent_" model. Lack of consent is the core behind pretty much all the sighted fails that feel intrusive or dangerous rather than just lulzworthy.
One of the things on the "don't _ever_ fucking do this" list would be e.g. grabbing my arm without my consent, whereas on the "OK to do this _with my consent_" list would be e.g. "touch my forearm with the _back_ of your hand so I can hold on to _your_ arm".
On a design perspective, I was thinking about having something like this on the back of the card:
* [left third] "What you see" [isometric drawing of a complex 2 by 3 block scene, including blind person facing sighted person and an X on the desired destination, omitting the things they don't usually notice, and highlighting & labeling the things that sighted people use for navigation, e.g. street signs, store names, "logical" straight, visually striking buildings, the way the sighted person is pointing, etc]
* [middle third] "What I perceive" [drawing of the same, omitting sighted cues and highlighting blind-salient cues / waypoints / etc, e.g. curbs, posts, crossings, pavement types, curb cuts, cafe smell zone, tunnels, uncovered areas, grassy shorelines, etc]
* [right third] "How to give good directions" [fully written out ideal directions to give based on this scenario]
I think something along those lines might be the best way to give a lot of implicit information about what's useful in an ultra condensed form.
Again, the middle third of this example might not be totally true for everyone using the cards. E.g. someone might actually know the local street names, or that there's a FooMart on the corner, or advanced skills like how to diagonally cross an open plaza area, even though the blind-perspective drawing would indicate that they don't and one shouldn't give instructions based on that.
However, the "assume this person is 100% blind" design will mean that everything depicted as usable _will_ be a usable feature for essentially all cane users.
saizai [OP] 1 points 5y ago
$1 for collaborating on the contents.
saizai [OP] 2 points 5y ago
I'd be happy to collaborate. :)
nwbld 2 points 5y ago
Awesome! I did a little searching and there are a few web pages out there that offer various tips for helping people with low vision and blindness navigate, but there doesn't appear to be a single standalone web resource for this -- so it's good to know that if we built one, we wouldn't be stepping on anyone's toes.
I'm thinking the site could have a broader name that allows for a wider variety of content at some point down the road, even though we'd be starting off with a focus on content related to navigating physical spaces.
Any thoughts on a name? Short and sweet is always best, but I know there's also a lot of sensitivity around terminology. It's tempting to focus on the word "blind" out of simplicity but would that be off-putting to people who have visual impairments other than blindness? Would "VI" need to be part of the domain name for true inclusion, or is this overthinking things?
The domain name "blind.help" is available (didn't know that the .help TLD existed until now!). Any thoughts on a good name?
I'm thinking the site could have a broader name that allows for a wider variety of content at some point down the road, even though we'd be starting off with a focus on content related to navigating physical spaces.
Any thoughts on a name? Short and sweet is always best, but I know there's also a lot of sensitivity around terminology. It's tempting to focus on the word "blind" out of simplicity but would that be off-putting to people who have visual impairments other than blindness? Would "VI" need to be part of the domain name for true inclusion, or is this overthinking things?
The domain name "blind.help" is available (didn't know that the .help TLD existed until now!). Any thoughts on a good name?
saizai [OP] 1 points 5y ago
blind.help seems like a fine name, except that I think people might not realize it's a real URL. ;)
I don't think it's worth being overly reticent with stuff like "VI" etc. Blind isn't a dirty word.
Functionally speaking, when we're talking about how to help a stranger of unknown visual ability on the spot, I think we should give advice/instructions on the assumption that they are 100% blind. That won't result in a _bad_ interaction for anyone, in terms of what help is offered / useful / interpretable, and avoids the intrusiveness of people asking exactly how well you can see etc.
If you want to override that in a particular situation, and disclose that you can see X or know where the Y is, that's your call - but the default scenario should be assuming nothing about someone's sight or knowledge of the local area.
I don't think it's worth being overly reticent with stuff like "VI" etc. Blind isn't a dirty word.
Functionally speaking, when we're talking about how to help a stranger of unknown visual ability on the spot, I think we should give advice/instructions on the assumption that they are 100% blind. That won't result in a _bad_ interaction for anyone, in terms of what help is offered / useful / interpretable, and avoids the intrusiveness of people asking exactly how well you can see etc.
If you want to override that in a particular situation, and disclose that you can see X or know where the Y is, that's your call - but the default scenario should be assuming nothing about someone's sight or knowledge of the local area.
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