Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Are The Large Numbers of Surveys A Problem? (self.Blind)
submitted by fastfinge
So someone on our IRC this evening brought up the fact that this sub often gets three or four survey posts per day, and we discussed it. But I figured those of you who don't hang out on IRC might want in on the discussion. So: are the frequent surveys a problem? If they are, what should we do about them?
Here are my thoughts. First off, we could make a sticky megathread and require all surveys be posted there. This would have the advantage of getting them off the front page, and allowing space for more different types of content. However, it would have several problems. One being that absolutely no blind person is going to bother going out of our way to check a particular post for, and answer, new surveys regularly. Or at least, I'm not; maybe I should speak for myself? That lack of attention means people with surveys will just refuse to post in the sticky megathread assigned to them. Instead, they'll create new threads, that us mods will have to remove. Also, it will mean the mods have to check the sticky regularly, to make sure the surveys posted are all OK (privacy, ethics, etc). When they're all just new posts, this is easier for us. And we're not full time or anything, so if someone does make a survey outside of the assigned thread, it could take us four to six hours to remove it. Meaning that the recent posts could well still be cluttered with a constant stream of surveys.
However, I have a larger problem with making this rule change. In short, y'all aren't downvoting the survey posts. That leads me to believe, perhaps falsely, that none of you mind them. When people have a tool (the downvote button) to express dislike of something, and don't use it, as a mod I have to assume it's because you don't dislike surveys. It could just be one or two users who would prefer a larger variety of content here. And I'm not interested in creating some rule like restricting all surveys to one single post, if it isn't clearly what the community wants. Also, the surveys make up the vast majority of our posts largely because none of our regulars make new posts! You all seem content to just comment on the existing threads. If we get rid of the multiple daily surveys, we could go as much as a week without a single new post. If we want to see a larger variety of stuff on r/blind, it's partly on us to post and make that happen.
So: as a user, I feel like we have too many surveys, and agree with the one or two other complaints I've heard. But as a mod, I feel like the community disagrees.
Now, it's your turn. Do you love the surveys? Hate them? Not care either way? (seriously, a quick "I don't care" comment still gives us information). If you don't like the surveys, what do you think we should do about them? Ban them entirely? Create a new sticky post just for them? Do something else entirely? How would you solve some of the problems I listed above? We all have a hand in shaping this sub into what it is. So let's have a discussion. :-)
Here are my thoughts. First off, we could make a sticky megathread and require all surveys be posted there. This would have the advantage of getting them off the front page, and allowing space for more different types of content. However, it would have several problems. One being that absolutely no blind person is going to bother going out of our way to check a particular post for, and answer, new surveys regularly. Or at least, I'm not; maybe I should speak for myself? That lack of attention means people with surveys will just refuse to post in the sticky megathread assigned to them. Instead, they'll create new threads, that us mods will have to remove. Also, it will mean the mods have to check the sticky regularly, to make sure the surveys posted are all OK (privacy, ethics, etc). When they're all just new posts, this is easier for us. And we're not full time or anything, so if someone does make a survey outside of the assigned thread, it could take us four to six hours to remove it. Meaning that the recent posts could well still be cluttered with a constant stream of surveys.
However, I have a larger problem with making this rule change. In short, y'all aren't downvoting the survey posts. That leads me to believe, perhaps falsely, that none of you mind them. When people have a tool (the downvote button) to express dislike of something, and don't use it, as a mod I have to assume it's because you don't dislike surveys. It could just be one or two users who would prefer a larger variety of content here. And I'm not interested in creating some rule like restricting all surveys to one single post, if it isn't clearly what the community wants. Also, the surveys make up the vast majority of our posts largely because none of our regulars make new posts! You all seem content to just comment on the existing threads. If we get rid of the multiple daily surveys, we could go as much as a week without a single new post. If we want to see a larger variety of stuff on r/blind, it's partly on us to post and make that happen.
So: as a user, I feel like we have too many surveys, and agree with the one or two other complaints I've heard. But as a mod, I feel like the community disagrees.
Now, it's your turn. Do you love the surveys? Hate them? Not care either way? (seriously, a quick "I don't care" comment still gives us information). If you don't like the surveys, what do you think we should do about them? Ban them entirely? Create a new sticky post just for them? Do something else entirely? How would you solve some of the problems I listed above? We all have a hand in shaping this sub into what it is. So let's have a discussion. :-)
bradley22 7 points 5y ago
The surveys don't bother me. I have answered afew of them. A little research does go a long way and I do wish the people would research a little more, apart from that I don't mind them being here. I'd recommend adding a rule that states; if you are going to post a survey, please research your topic a little before posting. Then add links to places like applevis, audiogames, and other sites that might be able to help.
derrekjthompson 6 points 5y ago
I think something should be done about them. I come on here to read about other blind people's experiences, not help people with their homework for free. I like the idea of a weekly thread.
tymme 2 points 5y ago
I don't sub or visit here regularly any more for that reason. Half of the posts looking for help for a class or is this a good idea for the nextest bestest smart cane / braille replacement / etc. just got too plentiful and annoying.
At the very least, having flair and sidebar filtered options would be nice; however, this doesn't guarantee every(any)one would use it. I also don't know how this works with mobile, so may not be as useful as for desktop users.
At the very least, having flair and sidebar filtered options would be nice; however, this doesn't guarantee every(any)one would use it. I also don't know how this works with mobile, so may not be as useful as for desktop users.
HannahRAWRR 6 points 5y ago
I’m personally not a huge fan of all the surveys. I’m not personally against them, but I do think that they clutter the front page. There were maybe two or three I’ve actually done. At a certain point, the questions get really repetitive.
kimthegreen 5 points 5y ago
I don't think my opinion on this subject is relevant because I am just a visitor here. I do have a different suggestion though: you could allow surveys only on one or two designated days of the week. For the rest of the week you could have a stickied megathread or not allow them at all.
fastfinge [OP] 2 points 5y ago
All opinions are relevant! As a visitor, does coming to the r/blind front page and seeing dozens of surveys put you off? Does it make you more or less likely to post yourself?
kimthegreen 4 points 5y ago
Well I am a seeing person. I have subscribed primarily in order to learn a few interesting new things about the experiences of blind people. If I had something I wanted to post it would not put me off. But I have the impression that many of the posters who are looking for input for their study projects have not done basic research and I find it annoying to always read the same questions that could have been answered by reading through the first page of Google results or by using the search function in this subreddit. Maybe a FAQ section could be useful? (if it doesn't already exist, I am on mobile right now) Or some kind of document somebody who wants to post a survey is required to read through beforehand.
fastfinge [OP] 2 points 5y ago
It does exist. Nobody reads it. Largely because of the "I'm on mobile" reason you just gave for not knowing about it.
A rule requiring people to do basic research seems pretty subjective. I guess we mods could start removing surveys that ask obvious questions. But that would quickly become the mods removing surveys we just don't find interesting. As a totally blind person, what's obvious to me may not be obvious to you. And I have no idea what information is available to sighted people or where it is, because of course, I don't need it myself.
A rule requiring people to do basic research seems pretty subjective. I guess we mods could start removing surveys that ask obvious questions. But that would quickly become the mods removing surveys we just don't find interesting. As a totally blind person, what's obvious to me may not be obvious to you. And I have no idea what information is available to sighted people or where it is, because of course, I don't need it myself.
kimthegreen 2 points 5y ago
Good point about the subjectivity. Maybe you could make a stickied post that links to the FAQ, for the mobile users? They have that on other subreddits.
-shacklebolt- 5 points 5y ago
I usually don't like them.
It isn't that I disagree with wanting to collect data from blind people. The primary issues from my perspective are:
- People coming to the subreddit often see a front page of primarily survey requests, which may misrepresent our nature as primarily a subreddit for the blindness community and those interested.
- Many "surveys" ask essentially the same questions over and over again, and that information is often readily available without a specific survey of our members.
- Some surveys (or survey-like posts) seem to be posted by people with a commercial interest. That interest should be explicitly stated, but it's impossible for us to be certain in some cases.
- Surveys almost never have any kind of compensation, and in some cases ask users personal details without the "researcher" being willing to provide identifying information about their identity and affiliations.
- The "undergraduate student design project" or "developer with an idea" type surveys often seem unlikely to generate meaningful data for the "researcher." Often the questions, range of possible answers, and proposed "solutions" reflect a total lack of research or any basic understanding of the subject matter.
I think a reasonable compromise would be to automatically post and sticky a weekly survey thread. That way there's not a single megathread with 3000 posts.
I don't even think it necessarily needs to be strictly moded. If users are given the opportunity and encouragement to use the weekly post, even if some slip through for a time, it should still cut down on them.
I think that having fewer posts is a fine price if the quality of each post is higher as a result. Perhaps with less of the subreddit devoted to answering questions about revolutionary color identifiers and object detecting canes, people will also feel free to post more.
I also think we could grow our daily and weekly participation by making themed posts that many subreddits do. Specific topics about blindness, maybe a weekly off topic thread, or themes that users vote on?
It isn't that I disagree with wanting to collect data from blind people. The primary issues from my perspective are:
- People coming to the subreddit often see a front page of primarily survey requests, which may misrepresent our nature as primarily a subreddit for the blindness community and those interested.
- Many "surveys" ask essentially the same questions over and over again, and that information is often readily available without a specific survey of our members.
- Some surveys (or survey-like posts) seem to be posted by people with a commercial interest. That interest should be explicitly stated, but it's impossible for us to be certain in some cases.
- Surveys almost never have any kind of compensation, and in some cases ask users personal details without the "researcher" being willing to provide identifying information about their identity and affiliations.
- The "undergraduate student design project" or "developer with an idea" type surveys often seem unlikely to generate meaningful data for the "researcher." Often the questions, range of possible answers, and proposed "solutions" reflect a total lack of research or any basic understanding of the subject matter.
I think a reasonable compromise would be to automatically post and sticky a weekly survey thread. That way there's not a single megathread with 3000 posts.
I don't even think it necessarily needs to be strictly moded. If users are given the opportunity and encouragement to use the weekly post, even if some slip through for a time, it should still cut down on them.
I think that having fewer posts is a fine price if the quality of each post is higher as a result. Perhaps with less of the subreddit devoted to answering questions about revolutionary color identifiers and object detecting canes, people will also feel free to post more.
I also think we could grow our daily and weekly participation by making themed posts that many subreddits do. Specific topics about blindness, maybe a weekly off topic thread, or themes that users vote on?
fastfinge [OP] 1 points 5y ago
> ask users personal details without the "researcher" being willing to provide identifying information about their identity and affiliations.
This is already strictly against our rules. All researchers need to provide who they work for (what school/employer) and how the data will be used. If we let a survey that doesn't slip through, please report it! The only acception is for students under 18. In that case, they just need to tell us it's for a school project; I'm not comfortable forcing younger folks to post there identities online. And of course, they shouldn't be asking for personal info (income/location/medical data/etc) for a high school project.
edit to add: And we do make a distinction between a "survey" where you follow some link, fill out a form, and give your answers directly to the researcher, and a post where someone just asks a question, and everyone answers in public as a comment. In the second case, you're already providing the data in public anyway; we don't require people give us info about them to just ask a question.
This is already strictly against our rules. All researchers need to provide who they work for (what school/employer) and how the data will be used. If we let a survey that doesn't slip through, please report it! The only acception is for students under 18. In that case, they just need to tell us it's for a school project; I'm not comfortable forcing younger folks to post there identities online. And of course, they shouldn't be asking for personal info (income/location/medical data/etc) for a high school project.
edit to add: And we do make a distinction between a "survey" where you follow some link, fill out a form, and give your answers directly to the researcher, and a post where someone just asks a question, and everyone answers in public as a comment. In the second case, you're already providing the data in public anyway; we don't require people give us info about them to just ask a question.
matt_may 3 points 5y ago
I often feel like a side show here. A lot of the posts are from people who are only here to sell, study or gawk. Outreach has its place and I'm not trying to push people away but sometimes wish we had a sub that didn't allow all the tourists.
Silverottawa 3 points 5y ago
I come here to be a guinea pig /s, we have a search side bar which gives lots of great info but is rarely utilized it seems.
tacos4thesoul 3 points 5y ago
I really like the idea of having a weekly thread for surveys. My favorite things about this sub are the stories people share and the questions people ask to learn from other's life experiences. It's cathartic, so it would be great to see more of that.
impablomations 3 points 5y ago
I think either a weekly thread or (my preference) only allowed on 1 day per week.
Nobody is going to go into a thread specifically to look for surveys to answer so limiting them to 1 day would be a good compromise. All surveys from previous week would then be deleted on 'survey day'
If they are flaired, I think it might be possible to have Automod delete any posts with the appropriate flair after a set amount of time. Not totally sure so I'll have a dig around in Automod info.
Nobody is going to go into a thread specifically to look for surveys to answer so limiting them to 1 day would be a good compromise. All surveys from previous week would then be deleted on 'survey day'
If they are flaired, I think it might be possible to have Automod delete any posts with the appropriate flair after a set amount of time. Not totally sure so I'll have a dig around in Automod info.
Warthil 3 points 5y ago
I am fairly new here. Regardless, I will give my opinion. I do find the large number of surveys off putting.
I don't think curiosity is a problem. However, there do seem to be a lot of surveys. Most of these surveys are not rigorous academic research that will lead to anything more than fulfilment of undergraduate course requirements. I wish they would do a little more background research before they ask questions but that is just not going to happen. Undergrad research is not about the quality of research but basic concepts of what research is and is not. That’s okay too. It may develop a long term interest in research that will lead to something valuable or at least break down stereotypes around blind people.
So far, it sounds like I am supportive of the surveys. I am not. I guess I am greedy. I may not post but I do like to read discussions. They may be from blind, partially-sighted, o&m instructors, relatives or the general public. When I read those discussions I get something out of it. I might learn something. I might be inspired. I might laugh. Regardless, I get something out of it. I don’t get anything from completing an undergrad survey.
Personally, I like the idea of placing them all within one thread. It allows those who feel they want to contribute to a survey look through the possibilities. It also allows others to avoid the threads if they wish to do so. Most of the time I will probably avoid them. There may also be times that I help out with a few.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
I don't think curiosity is a problem. However, there do seem to be a lot of surveys. Most of these surveys are not rigorous academic research that will lead to anything more than fulfilment of undergraduate course requirements. I wish they would do a little more background research before they ask questions but that is just not going to happen. Undergrad research is not about the quality of research but basic concepts of what research is and is not. That’s okay too. It may develop a long term interest in research that will lead to something valuable or at least break down stereotypes around blind people.
So far, it sounds like I am supportive of the surveys. I am not. I guess I am greedy. I may not post but I do like to read discussions. They may be from blind, partially-sighted, o&m instructors, relatives or the general public. When I read those discussions I get something out of it. I might learn something. I might be inspired. I might laugh. Regardless, I get something out of it. I don’t get anything from completing an undergrad survey.
Personally, I like the idea of placing them all within one thread. It allows those who feel they want to contribute to a survey look through the possibilities. It also allows others to avoid the threads if they wish to do so. Most of the time I will probably avoid them. There may also be times that I help out with a few.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
jage9 3 points 5y ago
No problem at all. May be worth a post at some point to explain how to make a good one, but these are people with an interest and I wouldn't want to curtail that.
Raf_AL 2 points 5y ago
I don't think we should remove surveys completely. who knows, maybe one of them could lead to a breakthrough in technology or something else. I read some comments suggesting that we could regulate survey posts to one day each week. #surveysunday anyone?
Prefect316 2 points 5y ago
I wouldn't mind them all getting consolidated into one mega thread and having that thread stickied.
I feel like I'm getting called by a bunch of telemarketers all at once when I load up this sub lol.
I feel like I'm getting called by a bunch of telemarketers all at once when I load up this sub lol.
jage9 2 points 5y ago
I like surveys, and probably wouldn't look in a weekly thread to read or find them. But some guidance on how to do a good survey and links to general data would be good.
[deleted] 2 points 5y ago
[deleted]
ravenshadow2013 2 points 5y ago
I am actually glad that other people want to know more about our disabilities and try to help, so they dont bother me either
estj136 2 points 5y ago
I have no issues with the surveys positive or negative. So. If I have time I’ll look at them.
fastfinge [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Thanks for taking the time to let us know! This is a thing people have complained about in the past, so I really do value hearing from people who have no issues with them. Because unless we take the time to talk about it as a community, all the mods here are the people who are unhappy, and the people who are content keep quiet.
estj136 1 points 5y ago
No problem! Yeah, I don’t honestly see why to complain or praise it. Hahaha!! I guess I keep quiet about it, because I don’t know what to say about it. I answer most of them myself. I think it is a good opportunity to educate and most of them may seem annoying but are usually genuinely curious and really want to help or learn about blindness. I’ve done two interviews maybe 3 of them so... I think so little of society really explains or educates about our positions, and I am pretty capable and out there and generally do a lot, very independent. There is both too little information or attention on disability, especially blind people, and also many do not take the time to voice true states whether pretty independent or not really. I think too many get frustrated too fast at it. I am actually kind of impressed how many posts sighted people are asking in. I am a busy person and generally don’t have time for all of them. I’d love to get to them but time of of essence.
Drop9Reddit 1 points 5y ago
I find them a little much but have an idea to potentially solve both issues. What if you created a second subreddit like blindurveys or alike and that was all the contnt as it would be easy to mod and would declutter this subreddit.
fastfinge [OP] 1 points 5y ago
And the surveys would still get posted here because we'd have like 20 times the subscribers.
Drop9Reddit 2 points 5y ago
Granted but kick the threads when they come and have a sticky reminding and encouraginf people to look at the other subreddit
GoneVision 1 points 5y ago
I don’t at all mind them. If I’m not interested in Reading a post that mentions a survey, or answering a survey, I’ll just skip it.
estj136 0 points 5y ago
I think some of these posts are kind of self-interested/motivated. Look, personally, I think curtailing them is bad. As I said and jage9 points out, they are curious, and they don’t mean to harm anyone. I think we should not stop curiosity. Do we want awareness or notoriety for our disability? I think blind people get very little tribute or attention from society already. I think even if it’s silly or uninformed it is good at least people want to know or are interesting. Even if it’s meaninless school reports perhaps they’ll have a continual interest, ambition to learn, or a further interest later. We want equality and opportunity, I think like the black and other communities a long time ago it starts small..
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