Blind and Visually Impaired Community
↑
0
↓
working on a Walking stick for Blind people (self.Blind)
submitted by Deklevad1234
Hello!
I am studying electrical engineering and we were assigned to help blind / partly blind people to move around more comfortably using a walking stick. I know there are a lot "high tech" walking stick, with radar capabilities and so on, but they are all so bulky and they often have a lot of technical problems. We are currently in the first phase of a project and I came to this subreddit to ask you if you could give me some ideas or directions about the everyday problems you are facing (despite the obvious) and how would this stick helped you.
We were thinking about making a different kind of stick handle, so it will vibrate when there is danger around.
Please feel free to comment anything you like, the more ideas you have about this stick the better! Literally, any ideas will be welcomed :)
I hope I posted this in the right subreddit and sorry for my bad English
I am studying electrical engineering and we were assigned to help blind / partly blind people to move around more comfortably using a walking stick. I know there are a lot "high tech" walking stick, with radar capabilities and so on, but they are all so bulky and they often have a lot of technical problems. We are currently in the first phase of a project and I came to this subreddit to ask you if you could give me some ideas or directions about the everyday problems you are facing (despite the obvious) and how would this stick helped you.
We were thinking about making a different kind of stick handle, so it will vibrate when there is danger around.
Please feel free to comment anything you like, the more ideas you have about this stick the better! Literally, any ideas will be welcomed :)
I hope I posted this in the right subreddit and sorry for my bad English
pokersnek 7 points 5y ago
I am an Orientation and Mobility instructor. I teach cane skills to students with a wide range of abilities.
In my opinion, there are very few students (of mine) who would benefit from additional information from a cane. The cane gives feedback about what is about two steps ahead of a person. Some students master the ability to interpret this info, many do not. On top of the cane’s feedback, people use their hearing, kinesthetic sense, mental mapping, and a lot of concentration to navigate their environments.
The addition of extra sensory information is nice, but it is difficult to interpret. I recommend finding a way to learn how to use a white cane yourself in order to gain an appreciation of how blind people travel.
In my opinion, there are very few students (of mine) who would benefit from additional information from a cane. The cane gives feedback about what is about two steps ahead of a person. Some students master the ability to interpret this info, many do not. On top of the cane’s feedback, people use their hearing, kinesthetic sense, mental mapping, and a lot of concentration to navigate their environments.
The addition of extra sensory information is nice, but it is difficult to interpret. I recommend finding a way to learn how to use a white cane yourself in order to gain an appreciation of how blind people travel.
Deklevad1234 [OP] 2 points 5y ago
Wow man, thank you so much for your answer. I never hoped for someone to reply and now I am getting so many answers and even from an instructor. Sorry, it took me so long to reply, I was doing some assignment.
Okay so information gathered from a cain wouldn't help so much. Today we will organize some practice with a cain with our eyes closed and we will see. But as I am getting all these answers I think it all depends on a person, how they interpret this information (feedback from Cain). We will try to study this matter more closely.
Thank you again, you helped us a lot! :)
Okay so information gathered from a cain wouldn't help so much. Today we will organize some practice with a cain with our eyes closed and we will see. But as I am getting all these answers I think it all depends on a person, how they interpret this information (feedback from Cain). We will try to study this matter more closely.
Thank you again, you helped us a lot! :)
KillerLag 4 points 5y ago
You should also consider contacting your local rehabilitation group that does cane training, to show you how it is used.
pokersnek 1 points 5y ago
There are devices out there that give extra vibrational feedback to people. There is the Mini Guide that sends out sonar/radar waves and vibrates in the user’s hand. You can either keep it pointed in one direction to do something like count doorways, or you can make sweeping passes with it to find obstacles. It does not help find drop offs like curbs or stairs. So someone using this still needs to use a cane.
There are a few GPS units. The Victor Reader Trek is brand new with a $700 price tag. There’s the Kapten, Sendero, and a few phone apps. Some apps are free, most are not.
More people with vision impairments use iPhones because of the built in accessibility. They use Voice Over and/or the Zoom features. Some people like Android phones and use TalkBack.
As for the canes, I hope you were all safe. I recommend starting inside before you go outside.
I hope your school project goes well.
There are a few GPS units. The Victor Reader Trek is brand new with a $700 price tag. There’s the Kapten, Sendero, and a few phone apps. Some apps are free, most are not.
More people with vision impairments use iPhones because of the built in accessibility. They use Voice Over and/or the Zoom features. Some people like Android phones and use TalkBack.
As for the canes, I hope you were all safe. I recommend starting inside before you go outside.
I hope your school project goes well.
Deklevad1234 [OP] 2 points 5y ago
Wow, I am really surprised how this community helped me. Really cool!
Thank you, man, for your comment and really nice explanations about a situation. So yeah we will focus primarily on inside usage.
Have a great day!
Thank you, man, for your comment and really nice explanations about a situation. So yeah we will focus primarily on inside usage.
Have a great day!
Able_Me 1 points 5y ago
Do you think your students would benefit more from improved accessible computer technology or improved navigation assistance equipment?
quanin 1 points 5y ago
We'd all benefit more from improved accessible technology. It just all depends on what your definition of that actually is.
As for navigation assistants, do you mean more like a GPs solution? There are plenty of them out there, but the only real problem is they're only as reliable as current GPS technology, which still isn't there yet--that's part of the reason self-driving cars are just now only in the testing phase. They're helpful, but you still need to have an idea where you're going.
As for navigation assistants, do you mean more like a GPs solution? There are plenty of them out there, but the only real problem is they're only as reliable as current GPS technology, which still isn't there yet--that's part of the reason self-driving cars are just now only in the testing phase. They're helpful, but you still need to have an idea where you're going.
Able_Me 1 points 5y ago
Yeah, so in your opinion what would be more useful to you, an improvement in the way you interface with computers, or an improvement in giving you an idea where you are going? For context, I have a senior design project that I think has the potential to do both of these things. I began the project with the assumption that orientation within the context of your environment would be the most important feature, but as I have done more research I think I see more requests for computer interface software and hardware.
Edit: I also realize that I am about the hundredth person this year to come into this community trying to design some revolutionary device, and I understand that must be exhausting. If I am asking too many redundant questions let me know.
Edit: I also realize that I am about the hundredth person this year to come into this community trying to design some revolutionary device, and I understand that must be exhausting. If I am asking too many redundant questions let me know.
quanin 1 points 5y ago
I think in both cases you're entering a very saturated market. For computer interface software/hardware, we have $1 for those with no vision, $1 for people with some useable vision, $1 for those who can't afford or don't want to pay for JAWS. On top of that, every modern mac produced in the last 5-10 years has screenreading and screen magnification software built-in (Voiceover and Zoom, respectively). I don't see what a new screenreader can offer, except perhaps if Microsoft ever finishes making Narrator useable enough that the third-party screenreaders aren't absolutely required on Windows.
For environmental navigation, we've got $1, $1, and $1 (Android only). The common flaw with these and other technologies, as would be a flaw in your contribution, is current GPS technology isn't there yet. For example I can give it an address on my block, and it might get me to the vicinity, but it most of the time won't get me to the actual building. So I'd still need to know approximately where I'm going, particularly in relation to where the navigational aid drops me off. In particular, GPS systems love to direct people around to the back of my apartment building. I know that, and know my way around this area enough that I can account for that. But John Q. Blindy getting off the bus in this neighbourhood for the first time isn't going to have a clue.
It's the same problem self-driving cars have, and one of the reasons they're not expected to be out to market for some time--that's ignoring the self-driving cars that fail to see on-coming pedestrians. I know where I live. I can direct a human driver to where I live easily enough. But if I'm relying on a car's GPS system, it may drop me off somewhere entirely different from where I'm expecting to be dropped off, because that's where the GPS told it to stop. It could be around back of the building, like at my place. It could be two or three buildings up the street, like where I work. I'm not going to have the slightest clue until I get out of the vehicle and the building's not there, or it's the wrong one, or I spend 20 minutes figuring out where I am only to realize the back door was 2 feet away from me and I could be inside already.
There are apps that could potentially help with that problem ($1 is one), but even that gets impractical after a certain point. Unfortunately that's probably the best we've got until we can successfully train algorithm A to accurately plot coordinates B and find building C.
For environmental navigation, we've got $1, $1, and $1 (Android only). The common flaw with these and other technologies, as would be a flaw in your contribution, is current GPS technology isn't there yet. For example I can give it an address on my block, and it might get me to the vicinity, but it most of the time won't get me to the actual building. So I'd still need to know approximately where I'm going, particularly in relation to where the navigational aid drops me off. In particular, GPS systems love to direct people around to the back of my apartment building. I know that, and know my way around this area enough that I can account for that. But John Q. Blindy getting off the bus in this neighbourhood for the first time isn't going to have a clue.
It's the same problem self-driving cars have, and one of the reasons they're not expected to be out to market for some time--that's ignoring the self-driving cars that fail to see on-coming pedestrians. I know where I live. I can direct a human driver to where I live easily enough. But if I'm relying on a car's GPS system, it may drop me off somewhere entirely different from where I'm expecting to be dropped off, because that's where the GPS told it to stop. It could be around back of the building, like at my place. It could be two or three buildings up the street, like where I work. I'm not going to have the slightest clue until I get out of the vehicle and the building's not there, or it's the wrong one, or I spend 20 minutes figuring out where I am only to realize the back door was 2 feet away from me and I could be inside already.
There are apps that could potentially help with that problem ($1 is one), but even that gets impractical after a certain point. Unfortunately that's probably the best we've got until we can successfully train algorithm A to accurately plot coordinates B and find building C.
EndlessReverberation 2 points 5y ago
Deklevad1234, do you have to do something with a cane for your project? The reason I ask this is because I don't think there is anything useful or new you can do with canes that involves electronics. However, as some people have already mentioned, you might be able to come up with interesting iOS or Android app ideas.
If you are interested in really trying to improve canes for blind people, in a way that might actually help, this would be my only suggestion. Broadly speaking, there are two different styles of long white canes blind people use. The first style consist of one very light tube of fiber glass or other light material; these canes are sometimes called NFB style cains. The other style of cain is made of shorter, thicker tubes that fit together and are held in place by bunjies or some other method; these canes are called folding canes or telescoping canes. There are pros and cons for both of these styles of canes. The NFB canes are lighter, more sensitive, and less prone to cause repetitive stress injuries in the wrist. On the other hand, folding canes are much easier to store, because they fold up. It would be an interesting project to try and come up with a cane that is as light as an NFB style cane, but is able to be stored like a folding cane. One other thought, NFB style canes have tips that are very good for picking up texture changes and making crisp taps for eccho location; however, in my experience, these tips are the week point of NFB canes when it comes to durability. The tips ware out pretty quickly, and the screw piece that holds the tip on the cane has a tendency to fall off.
If some one worked on these problems they might come up with small improvements that could really make a difference, instead of just making some toy they think is interesting.
If you are interested in really trying to improve canes for blind people, in a way that might actually help, this would be my only suggestion. Broadly speaking, there are two different styles of long white canes blind people use. The first style consist of one very light tube of fiber glass or other light material; these canes are sometimes called NFB style cains. The other style of cain is made of shorter, thicker tubes that fit together and are held in place by bunjies or some other method; these canes are called folding canes or telescoping canes. There are pros and cons for both of these styles of canes. The NFB canes are lighter, more sensitive, and less prone to cause repetitive stress injuries in the wrist. On the other hand, folding canes are much easier to store, because they fold up. It would be an interesting project to try and come up with a cane that is as light as an NFB style cane, but is able to be stored like a folding cane. One other thought, NFB style canes have tips that are very good for picking up texture changes and making crisp taps for eccho location; however, in my experience, these tips are the week point of NFB canes when it comes to durability. The tips ware out pretty quickly, and the screw piece that holds the tip on the cane has a tendency to fall off.
If some one worked on these problems they might come up with small improvements that could really make a difference, instead of just making some toy they think is interesting.
bradley22 2 points 5y ago
For me, this stick would be pointless. I am so used to using my cain that having a vibrating piece of tech would not help me in the slightest. I tested a piece of tech out yesterday called the buz clip and it didn't help me at all. It was a small vibrating box like thing, that you can clip onto your shirt or sweatshirt and it would vibrate if there were obsticles in the way. The problem? It would slow me down a lot.
Deklevad1234 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Thank you for your answer, it means a lot! So you are really comfortable with your cain, but is there any way to somehow elevate your usage? I mean we are pretty much just behind sketch work and are thinking about ideas. What about some add-ons for your cain? a handle or something that would sense the presence of an object and it would be pretty easy to mount on your cain.
Thank you again for your comment
Thank you again for your comment
bradley22 1 points 5y ago
It's not a problem. There are cains out there that do that already. I've tried one but they're not useful to me. I don't think I'd use this kind of tech in my day to day life.
Deklevad1234 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
I hope everyone in this post sees this. I would just like to say THANK YOU ALL. You have no idea how much this means to me. I am sorry If I didn't respond to every one of you ( I am really busy working on my assignments). This really exploded and I am getting all those information from people of all professions. I hope in the near future we will create products that blind / partially blind people will be able to use more common and it will help them in their lives.
I can't express myself enough because my English is not so good, but I really appreciate every single comment you guys made. I will try to respond and be active.
Cheers from Slovenia
I can't express myself enough because my English is not so good, but I really appreciate every single comment you guys made. I will try to respond and be active.
Cheers from Slovenia
estj136 1 points 5y ago
Yeah, great, idea, but as the first point out since this has been a very big thing, your product has just to be that much better!!!!!!! I think you have to try hard in this already established market. I do like the first poster idea too. I can walk on campus but the paths are curly and suttle changes in to other paths. Not all of them are straight and branches off. Now I am reminded it’s sometimes difficult to walk in open space or equvalent with window intersecting paths which are not necessarily clear. So, somehow being able to tell them apart would be helpful, and correctly count the opennings and branches would be helpful.
Deklevad1234 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Thank you for your reply this is a really good community of people! So if I understand, you need something to know which way is which and to somehow counter intersections so you know for the future. If anybody has any more ideas and comments, please feel free to share
estj136 1 points 5y ago
Nno, not quite traditional intersections I can tell those. Just in a community space or an opened one where there are no streets and traffic where paths are not straight, on a university campus, where paths branches off, where paths cross the main suttly and you can veer off that much easier, or a opened room or a opened space like a quad or a section of the path opens up for a bit, then continues after a space. And it branches off in to other paths. Sometimes paths just intersects or naturally winds or both. Sometimes I turn on to another path without really meaning to and walk a different direction. I also want to be able to count the paths that intersect and stay on route on that one main path or the one I am walking upon. Does that help more?
You said you go to a university. Go outside at school look at how your paths are laid out there. Notice quad area.
You said you go to a university. Go outside at school look at how your paths are laid out there. Notice quad area.
Deklevad1234 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Ouuuu yes I understand now. Thank you for taking your time and explain. I think this is quite a common problem as you are stating here. We will try to come up with something useful and user-friendly.
pokersnek 1 points 5y ago
Campus navigation is very tricky. You have all of these very stylized curved paths like the other poster said. There is no consistent structure to learn. Added to that, gps devices and apps do not know these open campus areas because they are not streets. Google Maps and Apple Maps wot off of TomTom Maps. So, if a car can’t drive there, it’s not important. University campuses themselves can be a barrier to a blind student attending their own classes.
estj136 1 points 5y ago
Not a problem, not a problem at all! Yeah, i think it’s a common one, which is why I for now just ask for help hahaha!
rollwithhoney 1 points 5y ago
So this past week was a conference called the CSUN accessible technology conference. There were 5+ booths there selling new models of canes. It's great for you to practice your engineering on this kind of project (and who knows, it could be the best idea ever) but just understand there is 20+ or even 100+ years of people practicing and researching and testing this topic already. Personally (I'm sighted) and yesterday I pointed my friend towards the hotel front desk and he drifted left over the next 40 feet (just like I do when I swim without goggles). Maybe some sort of way to compass/walk in a really straight for those big big open rooms?
Deklevad1234 [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Okay I see. Thank you, man, for pointing that out. As I said we currently don't have any particular idea of how the cain would look or work. We don't even know if there will be any electronic parts. But this compass idea seems really cool and it could work. We will take that into consideration. Thank you, sir!
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc • HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.