Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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May I ask a question? (self.Blind)
submitted 5.258162712191358y ago by torquetorque
Hello :)
I have a question that I have been thinking about, if this sub does not allow questions like this please let me know and I will delete the post.
How do blind or visually impaired persons navigate around obstructions that are at head level but not ground level, such as a tree branch that extends over a sidewalk? I’m assuming a cane would not detect such an obstruction, and from what little I know of guide dogs I don’t know if they’re trained to alert to obstructions like that either...
I’m asking because in my neighbourhood we’ve had a new art piece installed, part of which does extend over a part of the sidewalk at about the five foot level; not the whole sidewalk, just about the first twelve inches or so... if I was better at describing things I would give you a better description, but unfortunately I am not! Anyway I think the tree branch is the closest example I can come up with. Let’s say a tree branch extends about twelve inches into a sidewalk, at a height of about five feet: is that a hazard for blind people? It seems like it would be but I don’t want to assume!
Thank you in advance for any information you feel like sharing!
I have a question that I have been thinking about, if this sub does not allow questions like this please let me know and I will delete the post.
How do blind or visually impaired persons navigate around obstructions that are at head level but not ground level, such as a tree branch that extends over a sidewalk? I’m assuming a cane would not detect such an obstruction, and from what little I know of guide dogs I don’t know if they’re trained to alert to obstructions like that either...
I’m asking because in my neighbourhood we’ve had a new art piece installed, part of which does extend over a part of the sidewalk at about the five foot level; not the whole sidewalk, just about the first twelve inches or so... if I was better at describing things I would give you a better description, but unfortunately I am not! Anyway I think the tree branch is the closest example I can come up with. Let’s say a tree branch extends about twelve inches into a sidewalk, at a height of about five feet: is that a hazard for blind people? It seems like it would be but I don’t want to assume!
Thank you in advance for any information you feel like sharing!
OutWestTexas 15 points 5y ago
I travel with a cane. I would probably walk into it and get hurt.
torquetorque [OP] 5 points 5y ago
Ok thank you for letting me know! The art piece is being challenged by community members for a bunch of reasons, but I think this is the most legitimate one for having it at least altered.
iheartbaconsalt 7 points 5y ago
Pretty much this. I walk into a lot of things, and it usually sucks, especially eye-level kitchen cabinet corners.
vwlsmssng 3 points 5y ago
We've removed kitchen cabinet doors after someone twice walked into an open door edge on.
Bifold doors that lift up are better but you can't always choose the kitchen layout where you live.
Bifold doors that lift up are better but you can't always choose the kitchen layout where you live.
Ramildo 9 points 5y ago
It depends on the shape of the object. If it's a tree branch then I will not be able to detect it, however if it's an object with a flat surface I might be able to detect subtle changes to surrounding noise such as sounds coming from ahead being muffled and sounds coming from behind or my own breathing noises having a Doppler effect. This kind of echolocation is very useful to detect parked vehicles with a high suspension such as trucks, SUVs or 4x4s.
It's funny that I'm the only one mentioning echolocation in this thread since I'm usually the less adapted person around here despite having been blind for 4 years.
It's funny that I'm the only one mentioning echolocation in this thread since I'm usually the less adapted person around here despite having been blind for 4 years.
torquetorque [OP] 2 points 5y ago
Thank you for sharing that info, the piece is composed with metal construction beams... which will probably hurt a lot more than a branch if someone walks into one!
WhatWouldVaderDo 6 points 5y ago
Guide dogs are typically trained for overhead obstacles, but it is one of the most difficult behaviors to maintain. Basically, if a human-canine team doesn’t regularly deal with those types of obstacles, the dog will probably forget to alert.
As you surmised, a cane will not be of assistance either. I know people who wear hats for this reason—it gives them a split second to react.
As you surmised, a cane will not be of assistance either. I know people who wear hats for this reason—it gives them a split second to react.
vwlsmssng 3 points 5y ago
> I know people who wear hats for this reason
Also robust chunky "Velma" style glasses are worn for protection rather than something prettier and more delicate.
Also robust chunky "Velma" style glasses are worn for protection rather than something prettier and more delicate.
torquetorque [OP] 2 points 5y ago
Fair enough! I live with a disability and was given a service dog to assist with that so I totally get it - she is amazing at the things we do all the time, other stuff, well it’s hard to stay on top of every task all the time!
fastfinge 5 points 5y ago
I got myself a $1 for exactly this reason. The company themselves makes no claim that it can replace the cane, and that makes me so happy! But for traveling short distances (in someone else's house, in a crouded area) without the cane, and for detecting objects at head height, assuming it lasts me three or four years, it's worth the price.
Warthil 5 points 5y ago
I second the buzz clip. It is not a perfect solution and not great for all areas but a good tool to have.
In terms of the original question it seems like you are describing something that would be a hazard for many people. There are probably more kids around than blind people. A distracted kid on a bicycle could be seriously injured. Someone lacking depth perception may assume that the obstruction is no there because it would be unusual to place it over a sidewalk. Sometimes people fill in the gaps of what is there with what they believe is there.
In terms of the original question it seems like you are describing something that would be a hazard for many people. There are probably more kids around than blind people. A distracted kid on a bicycle could be seriously injured. Someone lacking depth perception may assume that the obstruction is no there because it would be unusual to place it over a sidewalk. Sometimes people fill in the gaps of what is there with what they believe is there.
vwlsmssng 3 points 5y ago
> a hazard for many people
Good point. Good accessible design and consideration of disabilities can often benefit the wider population.
Good point. Good accessible design and consideration of disabilities can often benefit the wider population.
torquetorque [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Good point, thank you!
KillerLag 5 points 5y ago
Yes, a branch at that height would be a hazard. Depending on your city, there should be ordinances regarding branches. You can notify the city and they should notify the land owners, or they will take care of it themselves (once again, depends on the city).
Canes cannot detect anything at head level, although some newer canes equipped with ultrasonic sensors can (but not a guarantee). Guide dogs are suppose to check for head height obstacles, but not always a guarantee. I would guess dogs don't normally have to look up that high.
Canes cannot detect anything at head level, although some newer canes equipped with ultrasonic sensors can (but not a guarantee). Guide dogs are suppose to check for head height obstacles, but not always a guarantee. I would guess dogs don't normally have to look up that high.
torquetorque [OP] 2 points 5y ago
Thank you for that info, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately it was the city that installed this piece, recently too (the “unveiling” was just last week). Alarm bells are being raised and complaints are being made so hopefully it gets addressed!
KillerLag 1 points 5y ago
Yeah, most cities installations don't usually think of accessibility when they do these sorts of things.
jage9 3 points 5y ago
Did the city allow this? I'm surprised that art that cuts off the sidewalk right of way would be allowed.
torquetorque [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Surprisingly this is a city installation (so not only allowed but planned by the city), but I think it was allowed based on drawings and evidently they forgot to consider our accessibility legislation... not the first time that’s happened and probably not the last, unfortunately.
EndlessReverberation 2 points 5y ago
As someone already mentioned, echolocation can often be used to avoid such obstacles. Most experienced blind people with normal hearing could very easily hear a statue the size that you are describing; in fact, I had pretty average echolocation skills a few years ago, and I could use them to locate much smaller things. So echolocation is the answer to how we deal with such issues, but this by know means gives the art piece a pass. I used past tense when describing my echolocation skills, because I lost some hearing a few years ago, which resulted in me loosing most of my echolocation. There are lots of blind people, such as myself, that have hearing loss, and there would be no great way of avoiding this kind of overhang. Besides, even if a blind person with normal hearing came across this obstacle and heard it with echolocation, they might not expect it to be something with an overhang. Tree branches are the most common thing that hang over side walks, and they sound very different compared to a solid structure. I think the art piece sounds pretty annoying.
torquetorque [OP] 1 points 5y ago
Thank you for sharing that info with me, I really appreciate it :)
jrs12 2 points 5y ago
Some people develop a facial sense and can react to these types of objects a second before they get hit, but that's a very difficult thing to do.
torquetorque [OP] 1 points 5y ago
I would really hate to see that happen, I hope they at least modify this piece!
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