Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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College/University (self.Blind)
submitted by BaginaJon
Hi all,
I'm a teacher of the visually impaired and I have a blind student who's in high school and doesn't like to do math on his Braillenote touch, he'd rather do it on the Perkins. Im fine with this now because we have a braillist and the resources to transcribe his work (although it slows things down for the classroom teacher). Im just wondering what kind of resources he will have in college? As far as I know, universities and colleges will Braille all of the work and make sure class is accessible, but will they go as far as transcribing work?
The issue here is I don't want to start my student on a path that he'll just have to give up once he gets to college. I think he should be doing math on the Perkins if it's easier spacially, but then also be writing his answers on the Braillenote touch so he can immediately print or email a print copy to teachers, etc. Even if in college he has access to a Braille transcriber, it'll still make more work for him because he'll have to do all the work, get it to the transcriber and get it transcribed and turned into his college instructor by the due date. Seems to me easier to just not use the Perkins, or be using the Braillenote and Perkins simultaneously.
What do y'all older visually impaired folks with college experience think, or would recommend?
Thanks!
I'm a teacher of the visually impaired and I have a blind student who's in high school and doesn't like to do math on his Braillenote touch, he'd rather do it on the Perkins. Im fine with this now because we have a braillist and the resources to transcribe his work (although it slows things down for the classroom teacher). Im just wondering what kind of resources he will have in college? As far as I know, universities and colleges will Braille all of the work and make sure class is accessible, but will they go as far as transcribing work?
The issue here is I don't want to start my student on a path that he'll just have to give up once he gets to college. I think he should be doing math on the Perkins if it's easier spacially, but then also be writing his answers on the Braillenote touch so he can immediately print or email a print copy to teachers, etc. Even if in college he has access to a Braille transcriber, it'll still make more work for him because he'll have to do all the work, get it to the transcriber and get it transcribed and turned into his college instructor by the due date. Seems to me easier to just not use the Perkins, or be using the Braillenote and Perkins simultaneously.
What do y'all older visually impaired folks with college experience think, or would recommend?
Thanks!
BlindGuyNW 4 points 4y ago
I'm not sure where you got the idea that all the work will be Brailled, presumably by the disability services office, but that isn't necessarily the case. It might be, but its' also possible that they don't have the equipment or resources to provide that kind of service. In particular, Braille textbooks are almost certainly not going to be a thing, the more likely outcome is that the student will have access to them in one electronic form or another.
You need to focus on getting your student to advocate for themselves. The disability office is able to help, but they aren't going to walk him through everything, and he will need to find out what services they can provide. Similarly, he'll want to get used to talking to professors, especially in the realm of accommodations for exams, and that sort of thing.
I hope this is somewhat helpful, even if I can't address a lot of the specifics of your question.
You need to focus on getting your student to advocate for themselves. The disability office is able to help, but they aren't going to walk him through everything, and he will need to find out what services they can provide. Similarly, he'll want to get used to talking to professors, especially in the realm of accommodations for exams, and that sort of thing.
I hope this is somewhat helpful, even if I can't address a lot of the specifics of your question.
Laser_Lens_4 1 points 4y ago
Yes. So much this. If you're disabled you need to reach out. Any college or university with any lick of sense will have a disability resource center. They will help with accomodations if it's something beyond what a professor can do. They will also work with the department of rehabilitation so it's a good idea to open a case with them as soon as possible.
Doing things with Braille is slow. Working on a Perkins isn't going to work in college. It's too slow, too loud, too heavy.
Moving away from Braille has worked for me since it's much easier to find accessible material electronically. I don't remember the last time I held a physical book.
Braille notetakers are nice if you can get your hands on one but it's totally understandable if they don't enjoy using it. I know I didn't. I'm way faster on a QWERTY keyboard.
No matter what you do you need to help them move over to computers. Whether it be a Braille display or a tablet with a keyboard and screen reader it will be really important in higher level classes.
Doing things with Braille is slow. Working on a Perkins isn't going to work in college. It's too slow, too loud, too heavy.
Moving away from Braille has worked for me since it's much easier to find accessible material electronically. I don't remember the last time I held a physical book.
Braille notetakers are nice if you can get your hands on one but it's totally understandable if they don't enjoy using it. I know I didn't. I'm way faster on a QWERTY keyboard.
No matter what you do you need to help them move over to computers. Whether it be a Braille display or a tablet with a keyboard and screen reader it will be really important in higher level classes.
BaginaJon [OP] 1 points 4y ago
I'm always teaching my students to advocate for themselves, starting basically when they're in kindergarten. This problem here isn't that. The issue is he simply hates using anything but the Perkins for math and I'm predicting this will cause problems come college. He's now only a freshman in high school.
fastfinge 1 points 4y ago
Does the student have a braille display for his computer? I'd agree that the Perkins is the number one best way to do anything involving math, as you said, for spacial reasons. However, that's not going to be practical in university. Most of his books will be provided to him in electronic format. Unfortunately, many of those formats won't work on a Braille Note either. The best way forward is a computer with a Braille display. First, because desktop screen readers have far better support for math, and support standards like MathML. Second, because from a spacial standpoint, having up/down/left/right arrows, a tab key, etc, just makes lining everything up so much easier on a computer than on a braille note.
BaginaJon [OP] 1 points 4y ago
This is probably the best route forward, I agree. Luckily he's a high school freshman and will have time to learn how to use a computer. With Braille display, do you mean a voiceover program like JAWs, or a regular computer with a refreshable Braille strip attached to it? Also, is MathML a math screen reading program?
fastfinge 1 points 4y ago
MathML is a standard for representing math electronically on a computer, sort of like html for websites. It's supported by JAWs and NVDA. And I mean a regular computer with a refreshable Braille display attached. However, it's JAWs that would output the Braille to the display, so the computer needs both jaws and the Braille display hardware. Instead of speaking the text (or as well as speaking it), jaws or other screen readers will output the text to the braille display.
BaginaJon [OP] 2 points 4y ago
So to get my student college ready, you'd recommend a laptop with jaws, MathML and a refreshable Braille display? By refreshable Braille display, do you mean just a simple strip of Braille, something he can just plug into the laptop, rather than using a Braillenote touch? I've never tried to pair the BNT to a computer.
fastfinge 1 points 4y ago
Yeah, a refreshable braille strip is what I mean. I think you can pair a braille note to the computer and use it to get braille output from jaws but I'm not exactly sure how, or how well it works.
BrailleNomad 1 points 4y ago
The Braillenote can be a refreshable braille display, but yes, there are dedicated braille displays that are just that, without all the fancy.
quanin 1 points 4y ago
Make him use the braillenote. He's more than likely not going to have access to a transcriber when he hits college, and even if he did, odds are good he's not the only blind/visually impaired person at that college and so however long it takes now, that delay will increase. If he actively refuses to use it, then quite simply he won't be successful in college for precisely the reasons that concern you.
You're quite right that the college's responsibilities include, but aren't limited to, making materials available in a format that's easily usable by him--including, if necessary, braille. Because he likely won't be the only blind/visually impaired person at that college, even that will take longer than he's used to. But that's where the college's disability services end.
TL; DR: If he's unable to do the work, that's the college's problem. If he's unwilling to do the work in a format his professors will accept (hint: not braille), that's a him problem.
You're quite right that the college's responsibilities include, but aren't limited to, making materials available in a format that's easily usable by him--including, if necessary, braille. Because he likely won't be the only blind/visually impaired person at that college, even that will take longer than he's used to. But that's where the college's disability services end.
TL; DR: If he's unable to do the work, that's the college's problem. If he's unwilling to do the work in a format his professors will accept (hint: not braille), that's a him problem.
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