Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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We're working on a smart walking stick with GPS features and computer vision and we need your help! (self.Blind)
submitted by TheNamesDyl
We're a group of MBAs and CS students at the University of Washington working to create a tool that's useful for those who are visually impaired to navigate easier and more effectively. We would be so appreciative if we could schedule a short call or meeting if you're in the Seattle area to talk about this with you. Thank you for your time, if that's at all possible please message me!
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Dylan
$1
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Dylan
$1
Laser_Lens_4 4 points 4y ago
Okay let's see here.
First off, it's a white cane, not a walking stick.
Second off, we don't want electronics stuffed in a cane. It's a neat idea for sure. Who wouldn't want a bunch of fancy gadgets stuffed in their cane to make navigation easier? I'll tell you who. It's people who have to sweep the cane back and forth, requiring a fair bit of force in order to counter the cane's momentum and already have all of those gadgets in their smartphone.
You're going to get more or less the same response from any blind person who has experience with a cane. It's just not an avenue worth pursuing. It's needlessly expensive and complicated and adds unnecessary weight to a device that needs to be as light as possible.
First off, it's a white cane, not a walking stick.
Second off, we don't want electronics stuffed in a cane. It's a neat idea for sure. Who wouldn't want a bunch of fancy gadgets stuffed in their cane to make navigation easier? I'll tell you who. It's people who have to sweep the cane back and forth, requiring a fair bit of force in order to counter the cane's momentum and already have all of those gadgets in their smartphone.
You're going to get more or less the same response from any blind person who has experience with a cane. It's just not an avenue worth pursuing. It's needlessly expensive and complicated and adds unnecessary weight to a device that needs to be as light as possible.
TheNamesDyl [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it. Would you say the phone covers the main use cases for an idea like this?
prosperoairy 3 points 4y ago
The excessive negativity is not needed here. Adaptive tech is a wonderful thing and sometimes you need to dig through garbage to get gold. But if you start turning anyone with an idea away, no one will work on what makes our collective lives better.
That being said, the points raised here are valid. If you haven't yet, watch a white cane user navigate, then try it yourself (blindfolded). You'll discover you are not as good. The point is that the white cane is one piece of the puzzle, coupled with years of training, both formally and through life experience. So mobility for the blind is not as simple as slapping tech on a cane and calling it a day.
That being said, the points raised here are valid. If you haven't yet, watch a white cane user navigate, then try it yourself (blindfolded). You'll discover you are not as good. The point is that the white cane is one piece of the puzzle, coupled with years of training, both formally and through life experience. So mobility for the blind is not as simple as slapping tech on a cane and calling it a day.
-shacklebolt- 2 points 4y ago
> idea away, no one will work on what makes our collective lives better.
There is no shortage of actually good ideas, however. There are plenty of existing projects that could use the time, money, skills, etc of someone who wants to help blind people.
These student projects are almost invariably 100% theoretical projects by people who do not understand, and have not researched, the problems of blindness or what technology exists (and who will not care after a semester.)
When they are not students, 99% of the time it will be someone working on their own who cannot be disuaded from the brilliance of their idea. Sometimes these people successfully seek funding from organizations or individuals who also have no idea that blind people don't need a toilet paper app or yet another sonic cane or whatever and just see "innovative technology for blind people." Never, not once, have I been able to or seen anyone else able to convince these solo inventors to put their skills and time towards an existing project that actually does something useful.
There are so many "smart canes for the blind" projects that never make it past a bunch of positive, feel-good news headlines for the inventor. Adaptive tech is wonderful. The sheer amount of vaporware that exists primarily so that a student can slap their name on "revolutionary product for the blind" is not.
There's a good reason people are jaded by these types of requests.
There is no shortage of actually good ideas, however. There are plenty of existing projects that could use the time, money, skills, etc of someone who wants to help blind people.
These student projects are almost invariably 100% theoretical projects by people who do not understand, and have not researched, the problems of blindness or what technology exists (and who will not care after a semester.)
When they are not students, 99% of the time it will be someone working on their own who cannot be disuaded from the brilliance of their idea. Sometimes these people successfully seek funding from organizations or individuals who also have no idea that blind people don't need a toilet paper app or yet another sonic cane or whatever and just see "innovative technology for blind people." Never, not once, have I been able to or seen anyone else able to convince these solo inventors to put their skills and time towards an existing project that actually does something useful.
There are so many "smart canes for the blind" projects that never make it past a bunch of positive, feel-good news headlines for the inventor. Adaptive tech is wonderful. The sheer amount of vaporware that exists primarily so that a student can slap their name on "revolutionary product for the blind" is not.
There's a good reason people are jaded by these types of requests.
TheNamesDyl [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thank you for the honesty. We really want to try to make something that isn't just bs. No one likes gimmicky technology. It absolutely defeats the purpose of the tech in the first place when it makes things harder and more annoying to use than they were before. I've been looking in the accessibility space because of some of the difficulties my dad went through when he had ALS, and I know it's not one to one comparable, but I thought there's more we can do to help the ease of navigation and travel. I'd love to hop on a call with you, or just messaging about some of the difficulties you face day to day so we can develop a better understanding of this space. Some of us are students though, you're right, and I didn't think about the amount of spam you guys get with these sort of requests, but please let me know if that's something you'd be interested in.
Prefect316 1 points 4y ago
OP, I appreciate your interest in helping the blind community, but I encourage you to go back to your research phase -- perhaps talk to some Orientation and Mobility specialists the finer points of how the blind navigate the world. You'll find that the white cane (not a walking stick) is only a small part of what's needed to navigate safely and independently. Much more of it is listening and identifying traffic patterns while still trying to avoid obstacles.
I'm happy to chat with someone more about this as I have some strong feelings about it and would be game to assist where I could. I'm not in Washington, but could still hop on a call. Do PM me if interested.
And on a less serious note: Can someone please just make a cane with the handle hollowed out so I can carry booze around in it? Thx.
I'm happy to chat with someone more about this as I have some strong feelings about it and would be game to assist where I could. I'm not in Washington, but could still hop on a call. Do PM me if interested.
And on a less serious note: Can someone please just make a cane with the handle hollowed out so I can carry booze around in it? Thx.
ENTJ351 2 points 4y ago
Wow. The answers are astoundingly rude. I live in california but I’d love to talk about it. I’ve been involved in visually impaired and special education stuff for a long time here and there I am also blind, myself. so I have pretty good ideas of what is needed. I don’t necessarily know if I would want a smart cane. I know there is a few actually out there. They are quite expensive though. I know one vibrates for stuff that is a overhang. So some of it is pretty cool, but not really my thing. My sister is at dartmrth and actually worked on such a project as an engineering student.
I don’t live near you but talking or texting isn’t very difficult, unless you would like to meet up but besides that, talking is fine.
I don’t live near you but talking or texting isn’t very difficult, unless you would like to meet up but besides that, talking is fine.
quanin 2 points 4y ago
Here's an idea for a class project. A research study as to why in creation able-bodied people's attitudes are to assume 1: we need help and 2: that they can provide it. You want to help? Awesome. Get out of my way.
MonocularMichelle 1 points 4y ago
This right here 👆🏻 If only they could see what it’s like for us in an airport! People literally run into me staring at me 😅 The only thing i imagine they would make a stick with a loud noise to irritate you a bush on the right! Watch your step. etc.
-shacklebolt- 2 points 4y ago
No thanks.
Even minimal research should have revealed the sheer number of attempts at a smart white cane there have been, and how virtually none of them have made it to commercial production. Of those that have, none have more than fringe uptake within the blind community for a number of very good reasons.
I know this is a class project for you and you’re going to do it anyways, but people don’t want their cane weighed down and made expensive with GPS in an age where we’re all carrying around smartphones.
Even minimal research should have revealed the sheer number of attempts at a smart white cane there have been, and how virtually none of them have made it to commercial production. Of those that have, none have more than fringe uptake within the blind community for a number of very good reasons.
I know this is a class project for you and you’re going to do it anyways, but people don’t want their cane weighed down and made expensive with GPS in an age where we’re all carrying around smartphones.
TheNamesDyl [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thanks for the feedback! Do you have any opinions about smaller integrations with technology and/or other convenient changes that could make this idea better? For instance, a small camera inserted into the handle for potential navigation help?
-shacklebolt- 1 points 4y ago
> that could make this idea better
Throw it out, or at least don't proceed with the assumption that any blind people will actually want it.
I carry a camera (smartphone) in my pocket all the time. I don't want or need one in my cane.
Throw it out, or at least don't proceed with the assumption that any blind people will actually want it.
I carry a camera (smartphone) in my pocket all the time. I don't want or need one in my cane.
TheNamesDyl [OP] 1 points 4y ago
That makes sense. Are there any accessibility features that you feel are missing on your phone?
CatchTheseWords 1 points 4y ago
I'm all for people designing new technology, there are lots of tech projects that are actually going to help us. But sighted people have been trying to force technology into the cane for years and it's never worked. The primary reason being because the blind community don't actually want that. Instead of coming up with an idea you think would fix a disabled persons problems, why not sit down with us to actually find out what barriers the community faces.
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You have to understand our resistance to this project. You've decided that firstly, blind people don't have these tools readily available, and secondly that putting them in a cane (which you didn't know the name of) is the right way to fix the "problem". Had you spoken to even a small group of blind people you'd have discovered that we have gps on our phones, specific gps devices if we wish and use things like smart watches. And secondly people have tried to create canes with other tech in them before and we, as a community have made the decision not to invest in them. I understand you probably think you're doing a good thing, but it's incredibly irritating when another non-disabled person comes along and invents something that's been invented ten times before, gets praised by the media and we, the community they supposedly helped are exactly where we started.
​
You have to understand our resistance to this project. You've decided that firstly, blind people don't have these tools readily available, and secondly that putting them in a cane (which you didn't know the name of) is the right way to fix the "problem". Had you spoken to even a small group of blind people you'd have discovered that we have gps on our phones, specific gps devices if we wish and use things like smart watches. And secondly people have tried to create canes with other tech in them before and we, as a community have made the decision not to invest in them. I understand you probably think you're doing a good thing, but it's incredibly irritating when another non-disabled person comes along and invents something that's been invented ten times before, gets praised by the media and we, the community they supposedly helped are exactly where we started.
Prefect316 1 points 4y ago
All,
I spoke with these researchers yesterday and although their initial prototype pitched here sounds on the gimmicky side, I can assure you they are taking steps to figure out a solution that is truly helpful to our community. I have spoken to them in depth about the saturation of navigation apps and other apps designed at aiding the blind and visually impaired. Right now they are hopeful to speak to some O&M instructors to get a better understanding of how the blind are trained to navigate traffic and other navigational obstacles. If anyone here is an O&M or can connect with one, I'd recommend reaching out OP's way.
I spoke with these researchers yesterday and although their initial prototype pitched here sounds on the gimmicky side, I can assure you they are taking steps to figure out a solution that is truly helpful to our community. I have spoken to them in depth about the saturation of navigation apps and other apps designed at aiding the blind and visually impaired. Right now they are hopeful to speak to some O&M instructors to get a better understanding of how the blind are trained to navigate traffic and other navigational obstacles. If anyone here is an O&M or can connect with one, I'd recommend reaching out OP's way.
HDMILex 1 points 4y ago
Thanks but no thanks. My phone works just fine for literally everything you're proposing.
[deleted] 1 points 4y ago
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