Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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What is it like going out to a restaurant? (self.Blind)
submitted by jayschmay
I've worked in restaurants for years and the thought never dawned on me that going to a restaurant isn't as exactly what i would call accommodating toward people who are visually impaired or blind. Is there such a thing as menu's in braille? Are they readily available? How is the dining experience different? How do you know what's where on the plate or on the table in front of you? Is it described and you memorize it? Do you feel around and get a mental picture?
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And most of all, what can be done by people in restaurants to be more accommodating and make it a better experience for customers?
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And most of all, what can be done by people in restaurants to be more accommodating and make it a better experience for customers?
imissaolchatrooms 23 points 4y ago
There are Braille menus. The most help waitstaff can be is to describe the table and plate, use a clock. Such as: "Sir, here is your plate, the steak is at 6 oclick, the potato at 2 and vegetables at 10. I have placed your wine directly above your plate, water to the left of it. To the right of your plate is a bowl with butter, individually wrapped pads. Please let me know if you need anything." Then stop by often, especially if they are alone or have no sighted people with them, they can't see you to flag you down.
jayschmay [OP] 7 points 4y ago
I feel like the clock thing should be something that's taught in training. Up until now, I never even thought of describing things like that, but it makes so much sense!
manamachine 3 points 4y ago
That seems like a lot to remember. Are you used to memorizing long lists of auditory descriptions? Maybe that could be standardized (per restaurant at least) and also printed in braille.
stickmarket 2 points 4y ago
Just last night I was out to dinner with five blind coworkers, and the waitress was great, pretty much did just as the top commenter said. It was not too much to remember because everything comes out at different times, it’s not a big dump of things and info all at once.
But also, based on my experience with my coworkers, their recall of things they heard was much better than mine 😊
But also, based on my experience with my coworkers, their recall of things they heard was much better than mine 😊
manamachine 2 points 4y ago
Thanks, good to know! I'm a UX designer and largely focus on accessibility for my projects, so I'm always wondering what the VI community's experiences are like and how we might make them better than the 'working' standard.
A quick idea that comes to mind is maybe some kind of placemat that has cut-outs or ridges to separate areas for objects like: plate, cutlery, main beverage, water, bread plate, butter dish/knives, etc. And have it "point out" where those objects are in braille. I'm imagining a rubbery-plastic sort of material; silicone would probably work well.
A technological step up from that could be one that automatically adjusts to the objects placed in it and updates braille in real time. Particularly if it were set up to scan bar codes a restaurant could use on their dishes. If we add voice AI, one could ask their tray what's on it to get the audio breakdown as well, and maybe also be informed about what's hot or sharp, to prevent injury. Or, more likely, one could interface with their personal mobile device for many of these tasks via an app.
A quick idea that comes to mind is maybe some kind of placemat that has cut-outs or ridges to separate areas for objects like: plate, cutlery, main beverage, water, bread plate, butter dish/knives, etc. And have it "point out" where those objects are in braille. I'm imagining a rubbery-plastic sort of material; silicone would probably work well.
A technological step up from that could be one that automatically adjusts to the objects placed in it and updates braille in real time. Particularly if it were set up to scan bar codes a restaurant could use on their dishes. If we add voice AI, one could ask their tray what's on it to get the audio breakdown as well, and maybe also be informed about what's hot or sharp, to prevent injury. Or, more likely, one could interface with their personal mobile device for many of these tasks via an app.
HDMILex 8 points 4y ago
Treat us like human beings, not animals with owners (do not speak to a sighted person whom we may be with and ask them a question which is supposed to be directed at us).
We're fine with print menus, although if you have the ability to have menus brailled go for it.
Tell us where everything is on the plate (use a clockface or directional method).
Tell us when you'll be back to see if everything's OK, we want anything etc so we don't have to call out for you or try and locate you. Or look and see if we seem uncomfortable from a distance.
We're fine with print menus, although if you have the ability to have menus brailled go for it.
Tell us where everything is on the plate (use a clockface or directional method).
Tell us when you'll be back to see if everything's OK, we want anything etc so we don't have to call out for you or try and locate you. Or look and see if we seem uncomfortable from a distance.
Myntrith 2 points 4y ago
There were a lot of times when I went somewhere with my mom, and people would talk to me like she wasn't even there. Doctor visits were the worst, because to me, they should know better. I was there to assist her and to intervene when necessary, not to make her a non-person.
HDMILex 3 points 4y ago
It's fucking ridiculous honestly. Sighted folk should know better. This is the 21st century, not the days of no technology, no human rights progression etc.
angelcake 3 points 4y ago
Menus are a big challenge for my partner. He can still read text to a point but only if it’s large, high contrast without a lot of clutter. Even if a restaurant had a few large print homemade menus available for low vision/legally blind people that list the choices in black text on a white background and large print that would be hugely helpful I suspect
cae_jones 2 points 4y ago
If he has access to an iPhone, he might give the built-in magnifier a try, or download the app called Seeing AI. Seeing AI is not perfect at reading print, but it's good enough that I've been using it on print-outs for work, and I can usually get it good enough that I don't have to ask anyone anything too often. (It seems to hate table entries concerning Skim Milk, for some odd reason, but otherwise...)
angelcake 2 points 4y ago
He uses his android phone for that and it works quite well but there’s nothing stopping a restaurant from having a simple large print black-and-white menu for low vision people.
cae_jones 2 points 4y ago
Braille menus exist, but I'm not sure how common they really are. I got use to expecting to not find them, so it felt weird that one time I looked up the menu online, only to be offerred a Braille menu when I got to the place.
I have never understood the plate-clockthing. Grab a fork, stab something, layout mostly determined immediately. I'd be annoyed if someone felt the need to describe where everything is, unless there was, like, some really tall, thin, unstable glass of boiling acid, surrounded by dominos, right beside my plate, or something like that. I wouldn't want to take risks reaching for the salsa if there's a highly unstable tall glass of boiling acid in the way. That could really ruin the meal, if that got knocked over. Mostly, though, I just drink water from regular glasses, so in the unlikely event something actually does spill, it's not as bad as if it was coffee, sugary softdrinks, or boiling acid.
Mostly, the only thing about restaurant-going that is problematic is when you get the weighter who finds the nearest sighted person and asks what you want, as though it is a high crime to actually address a blind person directly. Is it the lack of eye-contact? I hope it's the lack of eye-contact, because at least that has the excuse of clashing with typical nonverbal queues enough to trip someone up.
But seriously, I like Braille menus and wish they were more common. The Seeing AI app for iPhone helps, but I'm starting to think I should stop bringing it up, just in case that convinces people that they shouldn't Braille menus anymore. Seeing AI is a game-changer, but Braille is better when available.
I have never understood the plate-clockthing. Grab a fork, stab something, layout mostly determined immediately. I'd be annoyed if someone felt the need to describe where everything is, unless there was, like, some really tall, thin, unstable glass of boiling acid, surrounded by dominos, right beside my plate, or something like that. I wouldn't want to take risks reaching for the salsa if there's a highly unstable tall glass of boiling acid in the way. That could really ruin the meal, if that got knocked over. Mostly, though, I just drink water from regular glasses, so in the unlikely event something actually does spill, it's not as bad as if it was coffee, sugary softdrinks, or boiling acid.
Mostly, the only thing about restaurant-going that is problematic is when you get the weighter who finds the nearest sighted person and asks what you want, as though it is a high crime to actually address a blind person directly. Is it the lack of eye-contact? I hope it's the lack of eye-contact, because at least that has the excuse of clashing with typical nonverbal queues enough to trip someone up.
But seriously, I like Braille menus and wish they were more common. The Seeing AI app for iPhone helps, but I'm starting to think I should stop bringing it up, just in case that convinces people that they shouldn't Braille menus anymore. Seeing AI is a game-changer, but Braille is better when available.
[deleted] 2 points 4y ago
[deleted]
estj317 2 points 4y ago
Erm. Hahaha! What? I just go to a restaurant. And eat like everyone else. No one has to describe anything to me. I know what I am ordering. I touch the plate and eat like normal and I know what’s there. I am not afraid to be a bit tactile. I use my hand, and I just kind of explore a little, not for long. I also am a person super aware of her surroundings. Well, okay not as much as some people but I generally have a fair grasp. If someone came up and describe my plate in a clock like description maybe I’d be irritated. I am totally blind. Maybe I am more independent than others I guess. I have a good sense of where things are unless that restaurant serves food really unusually. It usually doesn’t happen.
Yeah, some places have braille menus but I just usually ask them to list general categories in a menu and ask what the food items is in that category. Then I eat like normal. And then ask for the bill. I tell them to please tell me the price. I pay my money and then leave.
Yeah, some places have braille menus but I just usually ask them to list general categories in a menu and ask what the food items is in that category. Then I eat like normal. And then ask for the bill. I tell them to please tell me the price. I pay my money and then leave.
PungentMushrooms 2 points 4y ago
I look at the menu of the restaurant on their website before going and decide what I want before I get there.
So basically, if the website isn't compatible with my screen reader, I won't go to that one :(
So basically, if the website isn't compatible with my screen reader, I won't go to that one :(
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