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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2019 - 02 - 18 - ID#as0frq
20
I am working on a project to turn video game play-throughs into audio book like experiences specifically with the blind community in mind and I'd love to consult /r/blind on how we can best serve you. (self.Blind)
submitted by Eldarose
Hi guys, I'm Brooke and together with my editor Ashley I'm working on a project which is tentatively titled Video Game Narratory (narration/commentary)

The idea is that unlike most let’s play style game play-throughs, the commentator will take a back seat and the game itself will be the core focus. Using descriptive and narrative language the narrator will describe exactly what is happening in the games at all times, from reading text, to describing a location or enemy, to breaking down game-play systems and contextualizing them in a way that someone who has no visual reference point could understand.

While I'm aware that a few small channels have made content similar to this already, we believe that it hasn't been done to a high enough standard of quality. The entire focus will be making a high quality audio product with video components being an after thought.

We're planning at some point in the next few weeks to release a full play-through of the 2013 title Gone Home, which is a beautiful story that at the time challenged how we think of narrative in video games, and about 2 hours of Dark Souls, a game whose cultural impacts are still being felt and discussed eight years after its release. These 5 to 7 hours of content will be our proof of concept that we will offer in order to help raise money to continue the project into the future via Kick-starter.

We're currently deep into the planning phase and playing around with our process to see how we can make something sound as good as it possibly can and I thought it is important that we reach out to the blind community and ask you what you need and what you'd want from this kind of content. While we're hoping that sighted folk will also be interested in this content, for listening to at work or in the car, accessibility will always be out highest priority and will factor into all our decisions at every stage.

With that in mind I have some questions I'd like to ask of you all. Feel free to reply with answers, but also all ideas, suggestions and requests are welcome. And please, if at any point the language we are using isn't inclusive or accessible, let us know.

How important are visual aspects such as game-play mechanics, graphical quality or art to contextualize?

Which would be prefered, exhaustive play-throughs or abridged play-throughs of longer titles with a lot of optional content such as Bioshock?

For cut-scenes, would movie style AD be preferred or a post cut-scene synopsis?

What sounds are most important to you to understand where you are?

Are any kinds of sounds disorienting?

Do you have anything that annoys you in regular lets plays that we might not think about?

Would more in depth descriptions of things be appreciated or annoying? Like would giant suffice as a descriptor or would you want a size comparison?

What kinds of descriptors don't really matter for your understanding of something?

Are there any genres of games which you feel are already covered accessibly (such as fully read visual novels let's plays) or any genres which are especially under served?

We're planning on distributing via Youtube and iTunes and other podcast apps. Are there any accessibility issues we should be aware of with these platforms? Are there any other platforms we should be considering, such as Spotify?

If we think of more questions we'll add them in.

Thank you for your time.

​

Edit: Question added

Edit 2: As per suggestion from several of you, we've made a google form that we've shared to a few mailing lists. Feel free to complete it and share it. Link Below $1
bradley22 3 points 4y ago
I’d love for resident evil 7 to be covered. I’ll definitely be checking this out when I can.
rkingett 1 points 4y ago
They put out a sample.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSOGMYZ86xI
bradley22 1 points 4y ago
I’m listening to the sample and think it’s awesome!
rkingett 1 points 4y ago
I can't wait to start sharing the podcast feed. I rarely go on YouTube anymore, what with the vast amounts of audio fiction and audio documentaries podcasts give me, when this comes out as a podcast, I will be the first one to subscribe.
Eldarose [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Hi this is really awesome but it isn't us haha.
Looks like we have some competition.
rkingett 1 points 4y ago
Oh! OMG! I'm so sorry! Still, you guys will be hitting a Niche market if you go the podcast route. I know many blind/VI people would prefer podcasts, rather than YouTube, because it is far easier to use and even share.

Is there a mailing list or something to join, yet? Or something?

If you make your own website, use wordpress.com rather than any of the other free hosts. They offer the most accessiblity ready themes.
Eldarose [OP] 1 points 4y ago
For full clarity, the person who made this sample is $1 on twitter


We're planning on releasing our sample very shortly, hopefully in the next day or two. I wish this other project all the success in the world, it's a great thing that there might be another team out there making this kind of content, the more choice you guys have the better and I'm hoping we can learn a lot from each other.
CrystalDennis 2 points 4y ago
This is a really cool idea and I'm all for it. My biggest thing with watching let's plays is the lack of description for how characters look, and the player just reacting to how a situation or person looks. So for me, having in depth characer descriptions, and an overview of the area we're in when it's first entered would be nice. Like as example, if there's an RPG and you're in a new map, describe what you can see of the map. When a character is introduced, describe how they look. In cutscenes, I think handling them like audio described movies and TV are handled would be the best way to go (look on netflix, or iTunes and turn on audio description for good ideas) but don't talk during the cutscenes, and just let them play out. I like more description rather than less, I don't think anything is overboard.

​
Clavast 2 points 4y ago
This is an amazing idea. There are lots of blind people like myself who grew up with video games and, for one reason or another, are not able to play them anymore due to visual issues. I’ve waited 13 years to play Kingdom Hearts III, for example, and now that it’s out, I can’t play it. I’ve often felt that blind individuals miss out on some of the pop culture that comes from video games and it’s something I’ve sorely missed over the past couple of years. Thank you for embarking on this endeavor.

I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not incredibly acquainted with let’s plays because it gets frustrating trying to watch someone play through Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess while talking on other non-game related tangents. Perhaps I can help, though, so here we go.

How important are visual aspects such as game-play mechanics, graphical quality or art to contextualize?
Take a note from movie audio descriptions. While there is a ton that could be described, frankly you could spend an hour describing the nuances of a mountain in the distance of Skyrim. Simply stating that mountains loom in the distance is enough. However, things that are forefront should be described with detail. As a gamer who used to spend a good ten minutes watching the animations for casting spells or swinging weapons in RPGs, this detail would be missed. Still, describing it the first time it shows up and later casually mentioning it is fine. So, over all, the visuals are important, just don’t get too bogged down in the details so that a quick scene takes ages to describe. It may be worth it to have a series introductory episode to describe the art style and color pallet so that you don’t have to consistently describe those minute details.

Which would be prefered, exhaustive play-throughs or abridged play-throughs of longer titles with a lot of optional content such as Bioshock?
I feel this could go either way. Yeah, I’m interested to see you fight the mindless armies of mooks a couple of times, but if you’re forced to grind through them over and over it might get a bit tedious to listen to. However, this is the authentic experience, so I think I lean toward the exhaustive playthroughs.

For cut-scenes, would movie style AD be preferred or a post cut-scene synopsis?
I would prefer movie-style AD, though there will certainly be scenes that require a post-scene description. I think you’ll need to go with both depending on the game and context. I agree with a previous reply, though — use a sound to denote that game play is pausing for description.
What sounds are most important to you to understand where you are?
Positional audio will be key for immersion. Use audio cues for purely visual elements such as meters on screen, but try not to muddle the audio landscape too much. There are certain scenarios where the game’s soundtrack can do the work for you — such as the music changing as enemies spot you or low health alarms begin ringing.

Are any kinds of sounds disorienting?
Not particularly. There are bound to be very loud scenes where game audio needs to be ducked for narration, but the narrator will be able to keep things on track. just avoid piercing high frequencies and all should be fine.

Do you have anything that annoys you in regular lets plays that we might not think about?
The premise of this project about well covers it for me. :D

Would more in depth descriptions of things be appreciated or annoying? Like would giant suffice as a descriptor or would you want a size comparison?
Giant suffices unless the size is an important factor. However, size comparisons would likely require further and further reference points since it doesn’t matter if the giant is four times the size of a house nearby when I don’t know how big the nearby house is.

What kinds of descriptors don't really matter for your understanding of something?
I’m not too sure how to answer this one without rehashing what I’ve mentioned above... Sorry.

Are there any genres of games which you feel are already covered accessibly (such as fully read visual novels let's plays) or any genres which are especially under served?

I’m probably not the best sample for this question since I’ve not been very involved with let’s plays.

We're planning on distributing via Youtube and iTunes and other podcast apps. Are there any accessibility issues we should be aware of with these platforms? Are there any other platforms we should be considering, such as Spotify?
Podcasts and YouTube will have the majority covered. Spotify might be a worthwhile addition, but not necessarily the target platform for most.

I hope this helped a little. It’s great that you’ve started seeking out opinions early. I’m sure you will get more useful feedback once you release a prototype of sorts and it will only get better with time.

Thanks for starting this. It’s a really exciting idea.

AshleyAdventure2 1 points 4y ago
Thank you so much for your input! Definitely going to keep everything you said on my mind as I edit and and help create this project.
Marconius 2 points 4y ago
As a former hardcore gamer yearning for this content to finally be made in a well-presented format, here are some ideas:

* Decent and consistent voicing of different characters when dialogue is text-based.
* Detailed descriptions of environment, game style (first person, isometric third person, etc.), grittiness, color palette, effects, and character descriptions.
* Cut scenes should be described just like film and TV content. * Only do this after a direct playthrough so the describer has a good idea of the flow of the game and a good sense of what to describe that makes sense to further the understanding of the story and character arcs, that way it is an informed playthrough rather than trying to describe on the fly.
* Keep game descriptions on point and don't approach this like just bantering about the game to some blind guy sitting behind you on the couch. Keep us active and in the know, don't get sidetracked with off-topic conversation. We want to be just as immersed in the game.
* Explain fighting mechanics, call out actions to ascribe them to sounds from the game so we can hear and understand what is going on later on. Useful in RPG fights. At least maintain continuing description during fights, don't go totally silent expecting us to remember every detail, we just like knowing what's going on.
* Don't talk over key dialogue in the game when describing. Feel free to pause the game if something needs further explanation.
* Be excited and into the games you are presenting to us. Also don't assume that everyone listening to your descriptions has visual context. Referencing other games or likenesses doesn't always work especially for people who were born blind.
* Weapon and item descriptions are nice, especially with upgrade mechanics that alter their look or style.
* Game choice and playthrough style should dictate how you go about describing sections. Perhaps practicing a level, then recording a playthrough, then describing over that recording rather than trying to do it live. That will ensure the right things are called out and that the describer doesn't get distracted during the actual gameplay which detracts from the quality of the description.

These are all critiques from past people who have attempted these playthroughs. Some were quite good, others were infuriatingly frustrating, especially when they were replaying a game that I had played before my vision loss and having them make a bunch of mistakes and describing with self-doubt tinging their description when doing it live. Reference how CaptionMax, AudioEyes, Deluxe, and other AD outfits do their description and use the same methodology with gaming. Thanks, and really looking forward to hearing how this goes!
Eldarose [OP] 1 points 4y ago
This is all EXCELLENT feedback thank you so much. I hope that we can knock your quality expectations out of the park.


We're completely forsaking a gameplay video in order to make the best audio experience possible, that means that we can rerecord all the narration to meet our quality goals, no flubs, no awkward silences and no talking over important game audio, we can fix all that in the edit.


We'll definitely take a lot of your feedback on board regarding action games. One of very first proof of concept playthroughs will be dark souls and I'll be taking a lot of your advice on board for that title in particular so thank you.
rkingett 2 points 4y ago
Also, send it to the audio description list <adp-list@acblists.org>

Reddit is not popular for a lot of blind people. Hardly anybody will see it. Make a Google form and collect responses that way.
rkingett 2 points 4y ago
So first of all, I love this idea.

second, I'd email the $1 make a Google form, and collect responses that way. Reddit just won't cut it.

See if Blind Bargains will put it in their news section.

Also, podcast would be better than YouTube, for me, anyway. Can I subscribe to the podcast now?
Eldarose [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thank you for this contact info, I'll make a similar post for that group tomorrow.
We're definitely hitting the podcast market, it'll most likely be our primary platform.
We're still in the planning and preparation stage right now but hopefully we will start uploads at some point in the next few weeks. I will return to this reddit with all the links when we launch, I promise.
AshleyAdventure2 1 points 4y ago
Thank you for the advice! We will definitely get more thoughts from the places you have suggested. The cast is not set up currently as we are still working on getting the content made but as soon as it is available we will be sure to let you know!
rkingett 1 points 4y ago
I'd also put the podcast on Spotify. I know a few podcast magazines who would review it in a heart-beat.

Also, personally, I'd like more story based games like Gone Home and KingDom hearts 3 and life is strange, but you could, should, set up a patreon to get funding.
rkingett 1 points 4y ago
So, I watch the sample below, and, I love it! Do you guys have a podcast trailer on Apple and otherwise I can share? I personally know more people who subscribe to podcasts and, like I said, I know podcast magazines who would eat this up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSOGMYZ86xI

Also, do you have your own website? Social media?
stormsong19 1 points 4y ago
Hi. I'm one of the writers for the aforementioned Blind Bargains site, and I personally would adore this so much! If you do end up making a google form, I'll gladly write up an article to spread the word and support you on whatever funding platform you choose. As to games, I personally love fantasy rpg's and would love to see something done for Dragon Age. It would be incredible if you could make the podcast for that something you could actually choose the story path in, say for this choice, listen to this episode, or something, but being as that's an incredibly complex and branching game, that's probably not possible. Still, I'd love to see that as well as many of the Final Fantasy, Zelda, Mass Effect, etc. games receive some kind of treatment with this project. Can't wait to see how this develops.
Eldarose [OP] 1 points 4y ago
I'm working on a Google form now thanks so much for reaching out. I'll be in touch shortly.

I'd love to cover Mass Effect in the future to be honest it's a series I personally have a deep fondness for, and we are very likely going to be offering a Zelda title as a kickstarter goal. Any suggestion which you'd like to see?
Eldarose [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Hi again.

We've made the form, link is below.

https://goo.gl/forms/pyiZH2EL834j8QB63
rkingett 1 points 4y ago
The link is broken, can you send it to me and him, above, again?
LeoCantos 1 points 4y ago
For me, when it comes to discriptors, it would be great to see things such as descriptions which are like in movies, where audio isn't interupted but you can still know what is going on in the game. It would be great if you were to describe some of the gaming sounds so we have a reference, and also, it would be great to see some sort of feeling fromthe person playing the game, otherwise, it feels too much like a movie instead of a let's play (If you could make that stuff work out as part of the let's play).
Eldarose [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Great feedback thanks.

When it comes to how much of my own personality I'll be putting into playthrough, it comes down to what kind of game we're covering. For really tight narrative experiences such as Firewatch or Gone Home, really the game speaks for itself and tells its own story, all I'll be there to do is to fill in the blanks.

For games which are more gameplay focused like RPGs or action games it will be much more like a let's play with my personality being a far more active part of the commentary.

I hope we can find the right balance.
devinprater 1 points 4y ago
This would be amazing.

Firstly, games I'd personally love to see are those like Shadow of the Colossus, Legend of Zelda, things like that.

I'd really try to branch out a lot more with advertizing this, like to the Audiogames Forum, because Reddit and blind people don't really get along well at this point, unless they're using an iPhone with a certain app that is in beta.

A podcast would be great for me, I use the Apple Podcasts app a lot.

Optionally, if the game supports it, it would be great if audio of the game was in surround sound. Operating system modules like DTS in Android (LG) or Dolby Atmos (in Samsung phones) or Windows Sonic for Headphones, can make surround sound into more of binaural audio, giving greater depth in sinimatics or battles.

For longer description, it may be good to pause the game and describe it, like entering a new location, or a colossus and its surroundings. Then, gameplay can resume and narration can go back to normal. Perhaps have a certain sound to denote long-description mode starting and ending.

Also, using sound effects for health bars can cut down on having to speak as much.

For example, say you're starting out a fight in Mortal Kombat. The health bar is at the right side of the screen, so play a sound in the right ear. Opponent hits player one, so play the health bar sound slightly closer to the center than before. You strike out in revenge with a special attack, and another, distinct sound plays 80% at the right. Really, its showing health bars and such in an audio form. For meters, there could be a sliding sound, at the left end for player one, and the right end for player two. This may get a little tricky to balance, but it should turn out to be a great, enjoyable audio experience.

One more bit of advice, look at audio games. See how the highest quality games do things. Look at mush-Z.com to see, what is basically, an audio MMORPG, and how they do progress bars. ,
AshleyAdventure2 2 points 4y ago
I would not have even thought about adding in our own sound effects. Thank you for the amazing suggestion I will be sure to implement that. I will also take a look at audio games as i have never even heard of those before now. Thank you again for your reply!
Eldarose [OP] 2 points 4y ago
Thanks for the feedback!
I think you're gonna love the ideas Ashley is cooking up in terms of the editing. Because we're completely forsaking a gameplay video it'll allow us to completely tailor the edit to an audio experience in ways I think you're gonna love. For example we wont need to pause the game to fit in narration, the narration is on a completely separate audio track from the gameplay which means that we can redub any parts of the narration that aren't clear or that have flubs, or that talk over important game audio. Not to mention we'll be able to play around a LOT with the game sounds as well to boost clarity on everything that is happening. We're already talking about boosting footstep sounds to make sure it's always clear when the player is walking or running and I'm sure we'll discover so many other way to improve the experience as we go.


As for those games: we're very likely going to be offering a Zelda title as a Kickstarter goal, I'm thinking either Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past.
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