Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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How do you feel about unsolicited help? (self.Blind)
submitted by PistachioCaramel
As a sighted person, I'm wondering how blind people feel about being offered help when they didn't ask for it.
To be clear, I'm specifically asking about offering to help, not about startig to act without even asking.
The reason for my question is that I've seen situations (in Youtube videos mostly) where there was a bit of social tension around this topic. There seems to be a lot of variance in how much value people place on their autonomy. Some are very happy to be helped with something, even if they could have done it themselves without too much trouble, while others would rather negotiate the task themselves if at all possible.
So usually my stance would be something like this: "It can't hurt to ask. If you don't need or want my help, let me know, and we'll both be on our merry way."
But on the other hand, a recurring sentiment I've noticed from the blind community is that you're basically sick and tired of being belittled by sighted people. You're not incapable of doing things on your own, and you obviously had to learn to cope with all kinds of different challenges, one way or the other.
So right now I would probably approach it like this:
* Offer my help if I think a visually impaired person is struggling with something. But be very ready to accept "no" as an answer.
* Make it clear I'm talking to you. When offering to help a stranger, I don't know their name. So I would probably try to make it clear from the context that I'm talking to you. Something like: "Excuse me, you seem to be looking for the exit, may I help you?".
* Never just go up to a blind person and grab them by the arm. Them being blind doesn't somehow magically invalidate their right not to be touched by a random stranger. This really should go without saying, but I've seen this so much.
* Instead, offer my elbow. No pulling or dragging.
* No petting your guide dog.
* Verbal instructions only. If my statements don't make sense without any visual cues, I'm probably not being helpful. The statement "Over there" must be frustrating to hear as a blind person.
So, that would be a sensible approach, right? Or am I way overthinking this anyway?
To be clear, I'm specifically asking about offering to help, not about startig to act without even asking.
The reason for my question is that I've seen situations (in Youtube videos mostly) where there was a bit of social tension around this topic. There seems to be a lot of variance in how much value people place on their autonomy. Some are very happy to be helped with something, even if they could have done it themselves without too much trouble, while others would rather negotiate the task themselves if at all possible.
So usually my stance would be something like this: "It can't hurt to ask. If you don't need or want my help, let me know, and we'll both be on our merry way."
But on the other hand, a recurring sentiment I've noticed from the blind community is that you're basically sick and tired of being belittled by sighted people. You're not incapable of doing things on your own, and you obviously had to learn to cope with all kinds of different challenges, one way or the other.
So right now I would probably approach it like this:
* Offer my help if I think a visually impaired person is struggling with something. But be very ready to accept "no" as an answer.
* Make it clear I'm talking to you. When offering to help a stranger, I don't know their name. So I would probably try to make it clear from the context that I'm talking to you. Something like: "Excuse me, you seem to be looking for the exit, may I help you?".
* Never just go up to a blind person and grab them by the arm. Them being blind doesn't somehow magically invalidate their right not to be touched by a random stranger. This really should go without saying, but I've seen this so much.
* Instead, offer my elbow. No pulling or dragging.
* No petting your guide dog.
* Verbal instructions only. If my statements don't make sense without any visual cues, I'm probably not being helpful. The statement "Over there" must be frustrating to hear as a blind person.
So, that would be a sensible approach, right? Or am I way overthinking this anyway?
ukifrit 7 points 4y ago
when people ask me, one of two situations will follow:
1: I accept;
2: I say "no thanks" and hope you understand the literal meaning of "no";
When people grab my shoulders/arms/wrists thinking they're helping, I take their hands away cause it feels kinda scary. I have to consciously stop myself trying to throw them to the ground, because a lot of exercises I do in my dojo starts with a partner trying to grab me by the wrist/arm.
1: I accept;
2: I say "no thanks" and hope you understand the literal meaning of "no";
When people grab my shoulders/arms/wrists thinking they're helping, I take their hands away cause it feels kinda scary. I have to consciously stop myself trying to throw them to the ground, because a lot of exercises I do in my dojo starts with a partner trying to grab me by the wrist/arm.
PistachioCaramel [OP] 3 points 4y ago
>2: I say "no thanks" and hope you understand the literal meaning of "no";
That is a perfectly fair expectation to have.
> trying to throw them to the ground
Unexpected, but again, I couldn't really blame you :-)
That is a perfectly fair expectation to have.
> trying to throw them to the ground
Unexpected, but again, I couldn't really blame you :-)
LanceThunder 7 points 4y ago
i think the big thing to keep in mind is to treat the person you are helping as your equal. show them the same respect and dignity as you would anyone else that was on your level.
people with visible disabilities have a lot of experience dealing with awkward situations so don't try to overthink this sort of stuff. they can tolerate all the stupid stuff you might do. just use your head and keep in mind that they are your equal and deserve dignity. don't pitty them or show patronizing attitudes.
people with visible disabilities have a lot of experience dealing with awkward situations so don't try to overthink this sort of stuff. they can tolerate all the stupid stuff you might do. just use your head and keep in mind that they are your equal and deserve dignity. don't pitty them or show patronizing attitudes.
PistachioCaramel [OP] 2 points 4y ago
Absolutely.
This is actually pretty much what I tried to say with that one paragraph. Come to think of it, "belittle" isn't really the word I was looking for. Not pittying them or being patronizing describes much better what I was trying to say.
This is actually pretty much what I tried to say with that one paragraph. Come to think of it, "belittle" isn't really the word I was looking for. Not pittying them or being patronizing describes much better what I was trying to say.
oncenightvaler 3 points 4y ago
I think the guidelines you set out for yourself make perfect sense, glad you are so knowledgeable about this topic.
I have had a few times where I have people call out to me whether I am lost when I am standing in my own driveway waiting for a ride from a friend and that I just find funny and then politely say that I am fine thanks.
I have had a few times where I have people call out to me whether I am lost when I am standing in my own driveway waiting for a ride from a friend and that I just find funny and then politely say that I am fine thanks.
PistachioCaramel [OP] 1 points 4y ago
> I think the guidelines you set out for yourself make perfect sense, glad you are so knowledgeable about this topic.
Thank you, glad to hear I picked up a couple things over the years. I'm dealing with accessibility in my work as a web developer, but to be honest, it can be a really abstract concept for a sighted person. So, many, many years ago I tried out JAWS, the screen reader, which certainly was quite the experience.
But it wasn't until about a year ago where I came across a Youtube video by Molly Burke that I really got interested in this topic. Having a blind person describe or show their day immediately made me aware of so many little things that I wasn't even remotely thinking about before.
Thank you, glad to hear I picked up a couple things over the years. I'm dealing with accessibility in my work as a web developer, but to be honest, it can be a really abstract concept for a sighted person. So, many, many years ago I tried out JAWS, the screen reader, which certainly was quite the experience.
But it wasn't until about a year ago where I came across a Youtube video by Molly Burke that I really got interested in this topic. Having a blind person describe or show their day immediately made me aware of so many little things that I wasn't even remotely thinking about before.
oncenightvaler 2 points 4y ago
I've met her she grew up fairly close to where I live.
matt_may 3 points 4y ago
It is 80/20 annoying but I grin and bear it because I don't want to keep them from reaching out in the future. Or for when I *do* ask for help.
PistachioCaramel [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thanks for your honest answer! This is sort of what I've been suspecting on some level, so I'll keep that in mind.
PistachioCaramel [OP] 3 points 4y ago
I just found out (after posting, of course) that /u/Nighthawk321 made a video on this exact topic just two months ago: $1.
That was definitely very helpful, and brought a few things to my attention that I didn't necessarily think of. Like, if they're obviously a resident at a place, they probably know their way around better than I do myself.
It also kind of did confirm for me that yes, there actually can be situations where being offered help can be unwelcome, even if it is with the best of intentions. So, I guess my takeaway is: It's very situational, and always will be. But I shouldn't let my social awkwardness stop me from offering help to people if I feel they might need it.
That was definitely very helpful, and brought a few things to my attention that I didn't necessarily think of. Like, if they're obviously a resident at a place, they probably know their way around better than I do myself.
It also kind of did confirm for me that yes, there actually can be situations where being offered help can be unwelcome, even if it is with the best of intentions. So, I guess my takeaway is: It's very situational, and always will be. But I shouldn't let my social awkwardness stop me from offering help to people if I feel they might need it.
Nighthawk321 2 points 4y ago
Thanks for the shoutout! Yes, you are correct in everything you said. I'm glad the video was able to convey that message :).
bradley22 3 points 4y ago
I think the steps you layed out make perfect sense. I’d gladly accept help from someone if they understand that when I say no, it means no.
PistachioCaramel [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Great, I'm happy to hear that :) Thanks for your take on this!
bradley22 1 points 4y ago
No problem.
zombiegamer723 2 points 4y ago
I'm a college student, so I've had a bunch of people ask me if I need help. (I have a white cane, can see a few feet ahead of me, no peripheral).
A lot of times, it's "hey, just so you know, you're about to run into [that sign/tree/curb/whatever]". I'll explain that I can see a few feet just fine, but thank them anyway because they are trying to help.
......when you're in an elevator standing by the buttons (in elevators where the buttons are on only one side of the elevator), have you ever had anyone reach across you to push their floor button? It's not a big deal to me, but um, I asked you what floor, so I can see it. That's why I'll try to make it a point to hit my floor's button as I'm asking you.
A lot of times, it's "hey, just so you know, you're about to run into [that sign/tree/curb/whatever]". I'll explain that I can see a few feet just fine, but thank them anyway because they are trying to help.
......when you're in an elevator standing by the buttons (in elevators where the buttons are on only one side of the elevator), have you ever had anyone reach across you to push their floor button? It's not a big deal to me, but um, I asked you what floor, so I can see it. That's why I'll try to make it a point to hit my floor's button as I'm asking you.
noaimpara 2 points 4y ago
If i’m clears struggling i appreciate it but when im just going about my day and I get asked if i need help it gets on my nerves. Thanks for caring so much though you’ve pretty much gathered all of the important information !!
PistachioCaramel [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Gotcha.
> Thanks for caring so much though you’ve pretty much gathered all of the important information !!
Honestly, all the information I got was from a couple different Youtube channels, like Molly Burke, Joy Ross, James Rath, and now Ross Minor :-).
So these offered a fascinating perspective into a world I barely knew anything about, and definitely helped me understand a lot more about living with impaired vision. But it's still just a handful of people, so I was interested to hear a couple more first hand opinions.
> Thanks for caring so much though you’ve pretty much gathered all of the important information !!
Honestly, all the information I got was from a couple different Youtube channels, like Molly Burke, Joy Ross, James Rath, and now Ross Minor :-).
So these offered a fascinating perspective into a world I barely knew anything about, and definitely helped me understand a lot more about living with impaired vision. But it's still just a handful of people, so I was interested to hear a couple more first hand opinions.
HDMILex 2 points 4y ago
Perfectly fine with being offered help. Not OK with being forced help.
wyongriver 2 points 4y ago
I agree. Help is good. Taking over - even when well meaning - can have unintended negative consequences.
I have been campaigning in Australia to have our organisations lead by low vision and blind people rather than sighted people.
As I said help is welcome. But well meaning sighted people have taken our organisations over.
This is important because the key organisations are paid hundreds of millions of dollars a year. For that some issues are addressed. But if we had self determination we could focus on fixing the Big Four which are:
1. Transport
2. Education/employment (>60% unemployment in Aus)
3. Exclusion from insurance and superannuation
4. Relationships
In this context, sighted people make “well meaning” decisions but without lived experience there is no sense of urgency. I mean why is it ok we have over 60% unemployment in Oz for low vision and blind people? Why is it ok that banks are exempted from the Disability Discrimination Act (Australia) which results in exclusion from travel, business and other negative financial outcomes. Why haven’t we invested in research to help understand how to improve relationships for blind and low vision people?
Help is good and appreciated. But taking over has negative outcomes like I’ve listed above.
I have been campaigning in Australia to have our organisations lead by low vision and blind people rather than sighted people.
As I said help is welcome. But well meaning sighted people have taken our organisations over.
This is important because the key organisations are paid hundreds of millions of dollars a year. For that some issues are addressed. But if we had self determination we could focus on fixing the Big Four which are:
1. Transport
2. Education/employment (>60% unemployment in Aus)
3. Exclusion from insurance and superannuation
4. Relationships
In this context, sighted people make “well meaning” decisions but without lived experience there is no sense of urgency. I mean why is it ok we have over 60% unemployment in Oz for low vision and blind people? Why is it ok that banks are exempted from the Disability Discrimination Act (Australia) which results in exclusion from travel, business and other negative financial outcomes. Why haven’t we invested in research to help understand how to improve relationships for blind and low vision people?
Help is good and appreciated. But taking over has negative outcomes like I’ve listed above.
PistachioCaramel [OP] 2 points 4y ago
> Well meaning sighted people have taken our organisations over. [...] But if we had self determination we could focus on fixing the Big Four.
This makes a lot of sense to me these days. As I wrote in some of the other replies, I've been getting most of my information from videos by blind Youtubers. And if there was common theme for me, it's that the challenges and struggles for visually impaired people are completely different from what I thought they were.
And exactly those four topics you mentioned came up over and over again. Often in ways I never thought about. While the things I thought were challenging often were a non-issue.
Some vlogging-style videos where blind people just documented how they go about their day pretty much turned my view upside down, and made me feel pretty ignorant to be honest. And it made me pretty wary of making assumptions about what low vision and blind people need or want - hence my post.
This makes a lot of sense to me these days. As I wrote in some of the other replies, I've been getting most of my information from videos by blind Youtubers. And if there was common theme for me, it's that the challenges and struggles for visually impaired people are completely different from what I thought they were.
And exactly those four topics you mentioned came up over and over again. Often in ways I never thought about. While the things I thought were challenging often were a non-issue.
Some vlogging-style videos where blind people just documented how they go about their day pretty much turned my view upside down, and made me feel pretty ignorant to be honest. And it made me pretty wary of making assumptions about what low vision and blind people need or want - hence my post.
happyforyoubutami 2 points 4y ago
Similarly, what is the best way to phrase the question asking about the level of vision they have? Because that will change how I help someone. Is it better to ask “what level of vision do to have?” Or better to ask “do you have partial vision?” Like; what is the best phrasing?
The reason I ask this specifically is that my husband needs different help in the daylight versus night/dark , which is the difference between him having low vision and having basically no vision. (I’ve asked him; he doesn’t care how it is phrased and says that most people who offer assume he can’t see anything and he doesn’t correct them because it’s awkward). So I wanted a broader range of opinions.
The reason I ask this specifically is that my husband needs different help in the daylight versus night/dark , which is the difference between him having low vision and having basically no vision. (I’ve asked him; he doesn’t care how it is phrased and says that most people who offer assume he can’t see anything and he doesn’t correct them because it’s awkward). So I wanted a broader range of opinions.
BlindOwl12 1 points 4y ago
Honestly ask however you like, I really hope people aren’t going to get offended because you asked a perfectly reasonable question in a Way they didn’t like. I don’t generally find questions about my disability unpleasant, it’s a topic of genuine curiosity and people really have Alterior motives
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