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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2019 - 04 - 21 - ID#bfow5n
11
Legal blindness and depression (self.Blind)
submitted by picture_a_vacuum
I’m 22, and just graduated university 5 months ago (computer science). I’ve been unable to find a job for about 5 months now.


I had a job for 4 days as a software developer and had to leave. I found the whole Agile thing infeasible and they couldn’t let me work with a Mac which I need for its accessibility features.


I have Stargardt disease, and my vision is a bit worse than 20/200.


I’ve been living off a benefit, and the pointlessness of my existence has caused what I believe is depression.


I’ve been thinking about going to a doctor and getting on antidepressants, maybe that will help.


I guess I’m concerned about their side-effects, and I wonder if they would even work, since my situation seems unresolvable. The organisations here intended to help those with disabilities find employment seem to just fuck me around and waste my time, without ever getting a single interview.


I’m wondering if anyone else has been here before and knows what comes next, or a way forward.
prosperoairy 5 points 4y ago
I was very much where you are when I graduated. I wish I can say it gets a lot better, but that hasn't been my experience. You will find work, just keep applying. Take some time to think about your real strengths and how to use them. Think about development. Programs you can create. Being your own boss in this scenario might be ideal, if feasible.
picture_a_vacuum [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thanks for the encouragement. I do have a business plan, and the welfare here offers a business startup grant, however they denied me from that due to them not considering me ‘unemployable’. I’d need to seek funding elsewhere 😅 It’s good to know I’m not in this situation due to fucking up or being lazy, and that it is a shared experience.
MostlyBlindGamer 4 points 4y ago
I'm a visually impaired programmer.

I was rejected for several jobs I know I'd have been good at, but eventually found an employer who was willing to give me a chance and it worked out.

My job is solving problems and I solve problems with my brain, not my eyes.

What I'm trying to say is you should keep looking and you should remind people they can't judge s book by its cover. I don't think you have any chance of getting into a baseball team, but you can program nonetheless. Having a degree proves that.

As far as antidepressants go, there are a lot of different ones and people react to them differently. It's one tool you can use, along with other ones. They won't turn you into a different person and if they help elevate your mood and get you more motivated you'll be able to do more rewarding things. It's a positive feedback cycle.
NavigoStellae 3 points 4y ago
When I couldn't find work in AI or robotics, I decided to do it myself, as a business. I couldn't find adequate programs suited to my visual needs, so I coded my own. Now my work is in high demand.

My point is that disabled or not, you have to push harder than everyone else to succeed.

As to depression, I still get it. I have PTSD just to make things interesting. Being blind in a sighted world would depress anyone. Depression is inherent in all people, more or less. For me, I refuse to be ruled by anything that would limit me.

I'm not sure if this was helpful, nor if many would agree. This is what I had to do to remain Captain of my own destiny.
picture_a_vacuum [OP] 2 points 4y ago
Yeah, I’ve been thinking along the same lines of self employment. I’ve just gotta figure out how to get it started, I suppose.
Duriello 3 points 4y ago
20/200 or 10% of acuity was perfectly fine for programming without any accommodations in my case; The only thing I had to do was to position the screen closer to me. I only stopped working after my vision deteriorated to 20/400 or 5% with very little contrast and color perception, with my problem being the latter as it was preventing me from working with almost anything graphical since I could no longer see things the way everyone else did.

I do find myself in the situation that you describe now that I'm blind though, and unfortunately I am yet to find a solution for it despite having been like this for the last 5 years. I'm on disability benefits , which are enough to cover all my expenses and still save some money at the end of the month so I'm perfectly fine financially, but this only upgrades my quality of life from hell to limbo. If I could find a way to code comfortably again I would be all over it even if I couldn't work on anything graphical as I have lots of ideas for a new programming language that I would love to work on for the rest of my life, but unfortunately I find both text-to-speech and Braille to be way too inconvenient to code comfortably, and without comfort I can not trust myself to produce quality code, so I avoid doing it altogether.

Regarding anti-depressants I have been recently put on Bupropion which from what I've read doesn't cause addiction and has effects similar to cocaine at high enough dosages, however I don't think it's going to change anything in my life since I don't believe I'm depressed and even the specialists aren't sure.
AmAsabat 2 points 4y ago
I've not been a programmer, but certainly have had issues with employment, employers and accessibility when I work. Also my brother who is fully sighted graduated around the same time as you with a CS degree and he hasn't managed 4 day yet so don't despair.

Seeing a doctor and anti depressants, yes and possibly, I do a CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) to cope with the issues of living as a fully blind person rather than take pills but this is what the GP is for to help you choose the right course of action.

Your existence isn't a waste of time, I teach and the quality of your written work is brilliant much better than a lot of my fully sighted students. I read your post on WINZ benefits and thought I can't comment you have a good grasp of the issues and are obviously very able.

Ask for a new assessment of you current vision and get it documented. Then, because you are capable of doing it, apply of everything you need yourself, even if you think you only qualify at 10% chance apply.

Then market yourself to every company that has more than 5 programers in your commuting range and stress that you are blind BUT very capable. PM me if you need help writing the letter but you need to do the research first.

Finally, agile is custom made for blind people if done correctly. A good scrum meeting in the morning means you can be part of the team from the get go \*\* everyday \*\* and can use the time to let your team what bits you can help on and what bits you are struggling with. If its not working that way then the scrum master is not very good, take this from a fully blind green belt, if they the team can't say it out loud in the meeting then they aren't doing it well.

You'll do fine.
Rw0004 2 points 4y ago
Do you have a good support network of family and friends that you can talk to and can help support you in the short term? You’ve already achieved more than what a lot of sighted people do so props for this. Have you considered starting up on your own in your own niche market? As a sighted person with a visually impaired son it has surprised me just how much focus is placed on the visuals of things like games and how other areas are almost disregarded.

I’d love to see some real in depth games for young visually impaired people to enjoy. Something that would merge an audiobook experience with decision making and maybe some cues from the vibration of a controller for specific obstacles and such.

Sorry, I’m rambling. What I mean is, if you have a passion then pursue it and if you don’t, use your experiences to help others in a similar position To yourself and you may find your passion in there somewhere.

I wish you well my friend.
picture_a_vacuum [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement 👌

I’ve not got many people to support me. No family, and perhaps a couple of friends, but they seem very disinterested if I bring this stuff up, typically just outright ignoring me. I kinda get it, it isn’t nice to hear or think about. Negativity is ‘contagious’, in a way. I’m venting it here on reddit. I do see a counsellor every few weeks, but I always struggle to tell her the truth for some reason.

I know I can build something, I just don’t think I’m quite in the right headspace now. I’ve lost my motivation. But I would like to build something to help others like me, and I have in the past, actually. The biggest disincentive is that sometimes you invest a lot of time and effort into a product, and it’s a flop. Once I’m more comfortable with such risks I’m sure it will happen, but my attention right now is focused on my immediate and essential survival needs, such as money and protecting my mental health.


Again, thanks for the kind message, and your son is lucky to have a parent so encouraging 🌈
EconomyWish 1 points 4y ago
You had a job? You got a job? You had a job!

Look, you had a job. First of all, learn from that experience. Get your hands on a Windows PC and figure out how to use it. Alternatively, you can still use Windows on a Mac by installing a virtual machine and running Windows off of it (I don't have experience with this as I don't use Macs but I believe it's fairly easy--look it up!). I also don't know if all the accessibility features will transfer over to the VM but you should certainly give it a try; and you can then also see if you can successfully run Windows accessibility software inside the VM. Seriously, you need to up your game here and get some basic familiarity with the platforms most companies require you to be able to navigate: Windows, Mac, and Linux/Unix.

Second, read up on agile development. Get familiar with the practices. The reason agile is so popular is because it works well in a lot of development environments. Just because you felt lost with it on day 4 does not mean you will still be lost with it on day 40; or on day 400. It does take quite a lot of effort and work to sort of understand what's going on if you're brand new, but that is how it is in any job. Trust me, the first 2 months of any job are just spent learning and getting used to things. You are expected to be lost the first 2 months! No one expects you to hit the ground running, sighted or unsighted!

I have hired people and I usually allocate 4 months to bring the person up to speed, even the smartest and most gifted of individuals! In your case, you are fresh out of college, so I (or any hiring manager) would usually allocate 5 to 12 months, at least. Due to your loss of vision, a manager might even add a little more time. You have to have confidence, honestly, and know that time is on your side. But you also have to put in the extra hours, ask questions about everything, and ask for help whenever you need it. Don't be afraid, don't be shy.

Now, as soon as you've gotten yourself familiar with Windows and thoroughly read up on agile development, please go back to the manager that hired you and beg him to give you a second chance. He hired you the first time and he may give you a second chance if you beg like a crazy person. And if you do this professionally enough, it will also show you are a go-getter: you took the initiative and went out and solved your problems for yourself, in your own time. It shows you are serious, will work hard, and that no one will have to babysit you.

In the meantime, I suggest you also keep building up your resume. Look for those online sites where you can do small projects/tasks for webmasters. They don't pay much and it's kinda hard work, but you get to build your compentency in small tasks and get reviews. Just take on tasks that you know you can do well and that you can put on your resume--yes, you can put such small projects on your resume! Concurrently, find some local non-profit organizations, hospitals, libraries, senior citizen homes, etc. that need technical help and offer your services. Something small, something simple, something you can put on your resume, i.e., maybe some help with their website; or teaching computers/phones to seniors; or teaching a 1-hour class on Excel or something at the library. These will not pay but they are great resume builders and will show you haven't just been sitting at home browsing Reddit the whole time you were looking for work...

I wish you luck and I want you to think outside the box and go do something GREAT!
picture_a_vacuum [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thanks for the super good advice. I’m taking it all in, and I’m gonna vent some thoughts below, writing it out helps 😂

Yeah, I can see how it would look weird to leave after 4 days. It was difficult to explain.

I did have a job as a web development teacher at a tertiary diploma place for 8 months prior to that job, and I managed really well there, vision was pretty much never an issue. I had to leave because the course I ran struggles to meet the required enrolment numbers sometimes. They only had Macs, and my coworkers and managers literally never made it seem like a big deal when I couldn’t see something. I saw my old role advertised there recently, went for the interview, and they grilled me about leaving my last job after 4 days, it was a tough set of questions to answer. They didn’t end up running the course again, and never heard from them again.

I think at the 4-day job, it was a combination of these repeated problems, managers saying to me “well we need someone who can actually do the job”, and the coworker who was supposed to get me up to speed sorta abandoned me and I was left there not really knowing what to do for a couple of days. The office felt really unwelcoming and depressing. I contacted an Employment Consultant from the Blind Foundation, he came over while I was there and basically told me that he can’t solve the issues I’m having, and it’s better to leave voluntarily instead of being fired. I left the next day.

I think half of the reason I left was because of the actual company. The other half would be my expectations being incorrect, lacking confidence, etc.

I was using a Linux VM, but even on a powerful new iMac, the performance was shit for getting things compiled.

We were developing embedded software, and there were constant issues with getting the hardware I was developing for to connect properly to the VM. The IO on the iMac was inadequate, and the networking complications of a VM made it really hard to get things working properly. I’d worked super hard and exhausted all the options I could think of. I think anxiety got the better of me and I stopped being able to think clearly, and combined with the Employment Consultant’s advice, I’d lost the confidence that I could do the job, and I ran.

The Mac’s zoom function is basically a requirement for me. I’ve used the alternatives on Windows and Linux, but they’re just nowhere near as good. It becomes tedious and frustrating to use a computer with anything else.

I’ve learnt since then to never really put any weight on anything Employment Consultants say. They’ve given me bad advice and they’ve ultimately wasted my time. I think I have to use that experience to readjust my expectations. I need to understand I won’t be up and running quickly if I want to avoid a repeat of last time. And I have to figure out how I can stay confident and stick with it, even with all of the challenges of new employment being amplified by vision issues.
EconomyWish 1 points 4y ago
> The Mac’s zoom function is basically a requirement for me. I’ve used the alternatives on Windows and Linux, but they’re just nowhere near as good.

Have you tried any recent alternatives? Microsoft is nowadays thought of as a 'leader' in accessibility so the tools may have improved. Alternatively, find a way to use those alternatives despite the shortcomings. In other words, force yourself to use them and, just like using a brand new browser, you might get familiar enough with them to get through a work day. Tough, I know, but if you want to do development, try.

> We were developing embedded software, and there were constant issues with getting the hardware I was developing for to connect properly to the VM. The IO on the iMac was inadequate, and the networking complications of a VM made it really hard to get things working properly. I’d worked super hard and exhausted all the options I could think of.

Yes, that is hard. Embedded software connecting may actually have issues with a VM. That said, you can always develop and compile on different machines. Yes, get yourself two machines, one to do regular development on and one to compile on. I've been in similar situations myself. More generally, there was one situation I remember where it took me 2 weeks to figure out a really small but really critical thing (in Java) to develop an encapsulated package for an external team. And I wasted a lot of a co-worker's time since she knew Java way better. All that time, I also kept getting pushback from my manager every few days telling me to kill the project; and I pushed back every time telling him I was almost there and just need more time (both of which I felt were true). In the end, I succeeded and this critical problem for us was solved; but I could just as easily have failed and I would've looked like a fool. The moral I want to leave you here is give it at least a full one or two weeks; and turn to co-workers, old professors, anyone you can think of for help; or post on StackExchange, SevenForums (people on this forum helped a lot with another issue I had), or other forums; and keep trying.

If you're in this situation again, I recommend you do not leave. I recommend talking to your manager and asking him to give you some time to figure out how to be productive in such a new and unfamiliar environment. Tell him you will problem-solve your way out and that you need some time. As well, if a co-worker really has abandoned you then that may be something you should bring to your manager or the HR manager (office politics can be hard, so you will have to judge whether it's better to tell your manager or to confront that co-worker; but also remember that that co-worker probably has tons of work to do himself and if you aren't able to use the tools he's familiar with, you shouldn't expect him to spend days or weeks helping you on his own time...).
that_red_ta 1 points 4y ago
I'm kinda in a similar situation my vision is 20/100 corrected. I graduated hs a year ago and I did a auto tech program in hs. As I'm sure you can imagine low vision and color blindness presents alot of challenges working on cars professionally. The first obstacle I ran into was getting my license luckily I was able to get a bioptic drivers license but the process took for fucking ever and by the time I got it I had already lost out on a couple jobs because of it. But I was able to find a job after I got my license and working in the field I've ran into alot of obstacles stuff like color coded wires, missing stuff on inspections because I just flat out couldn't see it and one that embarrass me alot is asking someone to double check jumper cables because not all of them are labelled positive and negative. But I ended up leaving the dealership I worked at for a multitude of reasons and got a job with my local county working on their fleet of vehicles thinking that I'd get good benifits and that theyd be fairly accomadating. Long story short they fired me because I cant drive at night due to the bioptic drivers license and I'm not gonna lie when they fired me for that it hurt, I was let down alot growing up finding out I couldn't do certain careers because of my vision but when your boss pulls you into their office and fires you for something that's out of your control that shit hurts. After that I decided to do full time college and get my airframe and powerplant certificate to work on aircraft because aviation is my family's thing and I've had alot better experiences with aviation and I just seem to be alot happier around aviation. But i guess what I'm getting at is I've learned that I'm gonna run into alot of obstacles in my life because of my vision but theres always a way around them I just gotta find it and theres gonna be shitty times but I just gotta pull my shit together and keep moving.
picture_a_vacuum [OP] 1 points 4y ago
It’s definitely a struggle, and it’s validating to hear we aren’t alone in this. Staying strong in the face of adversity is challenging, but is a necessity for success.
zYe 1 points 4y ago
I personally am not blind, but I am compelled to direct you toward Eknath Easwaran's: Passage Meditation. Maybe start investigating Buddha's four noble truths, meditation, and Buddhism in general.
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