Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Questions regarding braille code (self.Blind)
submitted by Dratornic
Hello, I need your help and views.
I'm currently a student doing a national examination project relating to the theme "time".
I decided to create a teaching aid for time targeting the visually impaired children. After some research on braille codes, I have some questions regarding it. Is it necessary to put the number indicators braille code for the clock's numbers? Currently having a dilemma, either to remove or to include the number indicators.
The reason being is my project supervisor insisted that we must not create a product exceeding the size of an A4 paper. Thus, I have very limited space to put the braille codes, especially number indicators.
What are your views? Is keeping the number indicator braille code necessary for the visually impaired childrens to read and learn time? If you do have any suggestions, please write them in the comments. Thanks!
Edit: I'm doing a clock/teaching aid for time with braille code to teach visually impaired children to learn how to tell time.
I'm currently a student doing a national examination project relating to the theme "time".
I decided to create a teaching aid for time targeting the visually impaired children. After some research on braille codes, I have some questions regarding it. Is it necessary to put the number indicators braille code for the clock's numbers? Currently having a dilemma, either to remove or to include the number indicators.
The reason being is my project supervisor insisted that we must not create a product exceeding the size of an A4 paper. Thus, I have very limited space to put the braille codes, especially number indicators.
What are your views? Is keeping the number indicator braille code necessary for the visually impaired childrens to read and learn time? If you do have any suggestions, please write them in the comments. Thanks!
Edit: I'm doing a clock/teaching aid for time with braille code to teach visually impaired children to learn how to tell time.
dmazzoni 3 points 4y ago
If you don't use the number sign, the natural interpretation would be a, b, c, etc.
By far the most clear and straightforward answer is to just use the number sign if at all possible.
There's another way to write numbers: Nemeth code, which is used for math. Numbers look like the same dot pattern but dropped by one dot, and then no number sign is required. Of course if you have nothing other than a single number at each position it'd be unclear whether it was dropped or not. So basically this would be a little ambiguous and confusing at first but you could plausibly justify it this way.
Hope that helps!
By far the most clear and straightforward answer is to just use the number sign if at all possible.
There's another way to write numbers: Nemeth code, which is used for math. Numbers look like the same dot pattern but dropped by one dot, and then no number sign is required. Of course if you have nothing other than a single number at each position it'd be unclear whether it was dropped or not. So basically this would be a little ambiguous and confusing at first but you could plausibly justify it this way.
Hope that helps!
Laser_Lens_4 2 points 4y ago
That would involve using grade 1 Braille everywhere else, no? that's going to take up way more room than just using a numerical indicator.
TeamRedwine 2 points 4y ago
No. Nemeth is more about mathematics.
Previous responses saying you dont need numeric indicators with nemeth are only partially correct.
You technically still need numeric indicators before each SERIES of numbers in nemeth code. The advantage of Nemeth is in the ability to mix numbers and letters without having separate indicators for each change. This saves space in algebraic expressions.
Some braille users leave the initial numeric indicator off in nemeth as a kind of shorthand, but numbers will not be written that way by professional transcribers.
Previous responses saying you dont need numeric indicators with nemeth are only partially correct.
You technically still need numeric indicators before each SERIES of numbers in nemeth code. The advantage of Nemeth is in the ability to mix numbers and letters without having separate indicators for each change. This saves space in algebraic expressions.
Some braille users leave the initial numeric indicator off in nemeth as a kind of shorthand, but numbers will not be written that way by professional transcribers.
Dratornic [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thank you for your time to clarify my question. Really helps for my research and my project. Thanks!
TeamRedwine 2 points 4y ago
Im a teacher for children with visual impairments.
Without instruction in the concept, you are correct.
We do use a clock face with braille to teach about clocks. It does use the numeric indicator at each position.
To answer your original question, would you make a visual aide with the letters a through j then aj, aa, ab on the face for a sighted person? If the answer is no, then you need numeric indicators.
As inconvenient as it is. That is the answer.
If you would like a picture of the clock tool we use for teaching, check out www.aph.com. go to the store and look for clock or time.
Best of luck with your project.
Without instruction in the concept, you are correct.
We do use a clock face with braille to teach about clocks. It does use the numeric indicator at each position.
To answer your original question, would you make a visual aide with the letters a through j then aj, aa, ab on the face for a sighted person? If the answer is no, then you need numeric indicators.
As inconvenient as it is. That is the answer.
If you would like a picture of the clock tool we use for teaching, check out www.aph.com. go to the store and look for clock or time.
Best of luck with your project.
Dratornic [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Would you suggest using nemeth code instead of the unified braille code?
TeamRedwine 2 points 4y ago
Are you making a clock face or losing times? Most braille watches dont include numbers at all, but rather indicate the 12 position with a long vertical line, the 3, 6, and 9 positions with a shorter vertical line and the remaining numbers with dots. Look at some braille watches online to see what I mean.
Dratornic [OP] 2 points 4y ago
Thanks, and yes, I'm doing a clock face to teach young visually impaired children to tell time. I have done some research on braille watches. However, I'm having doubts that the children may not be able to interpret that concept.
oncenightvaler 2 points 4y ago
don't include the #, you would not see it on a regular clock. I use the # only when writing notes from research, or sometimes in math.
additionally, have you heard of the different braille # system where all the numbers are shifted one dot lower
1 = dot 2
2 = dot 2-3
3 = 2-5
4 = 2-5-6
5 = 2-5
6 = 2-3-5
7 = 2-3-5-6
8 = 2-3-6
9 = 3-5
0 = 3-5-6
additionally, have you heard of the different braille # system where all the numbers are shifted one dot lower
1 = dot 2
2 = dot 2-3
3 = 2-5
4 = 2-5-6
5 = 2-5
6 = 2-3-5
7 = 2-3-5-6
8 = 2-3-6
9 = 3-5
0 = 3-5-6
Dratornic [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Thanks man!
TeamRedwine 1 points 4y ago
transcribes. Made you choose this topic? What is the class you are taking?
Dratornic [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Firstly, students in my country have to complete their national examination in order to proceed to tertiary education. I chose one of my subject to be Design and Technology which requires us to create a product relating to the given theme. We are tasked to find problems in various areas and select one problem that one could solve. Well that's the gists of it I should say.
bscross32 0 points 4y ago
I would say it isn't needed. By context, if you're telling them it's a clock or some other thing to indicate time, I see no need. You could also use nemeth, which just drops each letter down a row to make a number out of it. dot 2 for the number 1, dots 2 + 3 for 2, dots 2 + 5 for 3, etc. Now if you want to go putting numbers in with normal verbiage, at that point, it would be required. Also remember that nemeth is only used in a numerical context, i.e. mathematics and the like, since those shifted down positions also represent punctuation and contractions when used in text.
Dratornic [OP] 1 points 4y ago
I see, so children at the age of around 5 to 8 are able to read the clock's numbers without the number indicator? I currently considering nemeth. Really helpful to get this kind of advice! Thanks.
bscross32 3 points 4y ago
well maybe young children you would include it. It is technically correct to have the number indicator in front of any number. For older people though, they'd get the picture fairly quickly even without it.
Dratornic [OP] 1 points 4y ago
Got it, thank you!
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