Purchasing a computer for my blind sister. Help with selection?(self.Blind)
submitted by SomTingWon
My sister was recently blinded. She wants to start learning how to use a computer. I'm a systems engineer in IT and want to provide the most help I can in buying her a new computer.
My sister has about 30% vision in her left eye and 0% visibility in the other. Prior to being blinded she was accustomed to using MacOS. She is determined to work again, either remotely or physically.
**Heading: General questions**
* What is your setup and what do you do on a daily basis?
* Will a keyboard with tactile feedback help initially with her learning? Or will she learn to touch typing quickly?
* Do you prefer a desktop computer or laptop?
* Do you use any special computer peripherals?
* How significant is monitor quality for you?
* If you work physically at an office, how does the IT depart help with your accessibility?
**Heading: Selection**
The following is just based off what I read online. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
**Sub heading: Mac**
Pros
* Screen reading and magnification are already built in
* My sister is already accustomed to it
* Great for simple tasks
* Intuitive
Cons
* Not as popular in enterprise workplace settings
* Not as robust as NVDA when it comes to work related or specialized software
**Sub heading: Windows plus NVDA**
Pros
* Becoming increasingly popular, more so than JAWS
* Portable on windows using a USB stick
* More robust customization for specialized software
* Open source and free
Cons
* Harder learning curve
My budget is around $2500. Feel free to post helpful information that is outside the constraints of my post as well; anything that can help others.
xXLosingItXx3 points4y ago
I have experience in this field as a job and have seen a variety of setups. Here’s what I can say as a general consensus of that I’ve seen.
For Mac
- MAC computers are alright for basic things. If she’s going to be using any large files, the lag cause by VoiceOver may become and issue, although with a newer Mac this hasn’t been an issue.
- VoiceOver is by far the least buggy, and integrates well with most websites and programs.
- While annoying, MAC touchpada tend to be better for VoiceOver users, as the touchpad allows for gestures.
Overall if she already knows the OS, I would recommend a Mac.
Now for Windows:
- many people find NVDA annoying, as it’s very buggy, and most workplaces do not not allow it. The only time NVDA is superior to JAWS is the internet. JAWS tends to crash when on the web, and due to internet explorer becoming obsolete (JAWS is built around IE) this problem will only get worse.
- on the other hand, JAWS is much easier to learn, and most trainers and agencies prefer it. While still not easy, the stability outside the web and plethora of materials available are helpful. Again, most companies only allow JAWS, and some will pay for it too. I know it’s expensive, but the yearly subscriptions are a good price. You can download it for free to test it out too.
- some people prefer external keyboards because the keys are easier to distinguish, and many JAWS and NVDA commands are easier with a NUMPAD.
I’ll be frank, if she’s continuing to lose her vision, get her to learn a screen reader NOW. I’ve seen too many people make the mistake of relying on their little bit of vision and struggling. Depending on wether or not she has a case with the state, she may be eligible for assistance or training on this equipment. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
modulus2 points4y ago
People can have very different views on this, so I'll temper by remarks.
I find the characterisation of NVDA (compared to JAWS) as very buggy to be completely contrary to my experience. I also never had any issue getting NVDA installed, and in fact it requires less permissions than JAWS and the licencing situation is simpler.
I agree 100% though that, whatever else, the sooner one learns a screen reader the better. Learning it with some residual vision will make it easier than waiting until there is no choice left.
bradley221 points4y ago
I’ve used Jaws and NVDA. Jaws for around 18 years and NVDA for 5/6 years.
NVDA hasn’t been super buggy for me, maybe speech cuts out but a quick restart of NVDA fixes that.
Having said all that, if your sister is used to the mac, i’d recommend that. Personally I use windows and didn’t like my mac laptop when I had it but that’s because I’m used to windows shortcuts.
xXLosingItXx1 points4y ago
And in all honesty I totally agree. If someone can deal with the bugs in NVDA it’s the way to go, but because of security, most companies won’t allow it on for example a work computer, which is honestly my main concern in this situation
Marconius2 points4y ago
I highly recommend sticking with the Mac. If you get a MacBook Pro, you can always dual-boot it with Windows if a work situation calls for it, so you get the best of both worlds. I lost my vision suddenly 5 years ago and was a hardcore gamer, animator, and overall power user for both Mac and Windows. I largely preferred the Mac.
Now, I have a 2015 MacBook Pro with 16Gb of RAM and a large SSD partitioned with Windows 10. My Windows partition has Jaws and NVDA, but in my line of work I hardly use it except for website testing. I'm an accessibility specialist now, testing apps and sites. At work, I have a smaller MBP and the whole company is Mac-based since the primary platform on which the company app is based is iOS. Most startups are Mac-based, while more office/traditional settings tend to be Windows based. I do quite a lot of Google doc management, Jira and browser-based work, plus just draft policy and email, plus drop into Xcode ever so often.
At home, I program with TextEdit or Xcode, run scripts in Terminal or iTerm, play games, write, and am perfectly functional in MacOS. I like the versatility and mobility with my laptops since I'm no longer doing any work that requires the powerhouse of my old Mac Pro desktop, which I had decked out for animation rendering, editing, and gaming. My Apple 30" display is gathering dust :(
Personally, through all of this and having learned both Jaws and VoiceOver at the same time, I largely prefer VoiceOver. Less buggy, much more integrated, plus the concepts and skills transfer over to VoiceOver on iOS. Practically all native Apple apps are accessible out of the gate, it has a lower learning curve, and the screen magnification, color inversion, and other VI options are quick to implement and set up. I had vision issues when I was an animator and used to have a Wacom Bamboo pen tablet with a touch ring sensor. I bound the touch ring to the screen zoom commands and was able to smoothly magnify the screen when working, using the pen for all cursor movement and controls rather than a mouse. It was a great setup and worked well and kept me at my animation speed despite the vision issues until I lost it all.
Edit: At work, since VoiceOver is built into MacOS, there isn't anything IT needs to do other than give me a Mac for me to use it. I can just turn VO on and go from there. They've worked closely with me to help develop their internal IT software distribution app in an accessible way. With the Mac, nothing extra needs to be installed, no licensing issues, you just hit Command-F5 and off you go. I just use the standard laptop keyboard and haven't needed anything else for what I need to do on a daily basis. I have a Vario Ultra 40 braille display, but haven't used it as much as I thought I would since I've gotten so used to parsing VoiceOver and have multiple activities set up per application that change punctuation and overall typing and formatting feedback. Can quickly shift from hearing everything I need for programming and listening to HTML and other languages, to hearing natural speech in a web browser or email by just Command-Tabbing to another app.
BlueRock9561 points4y ago
Hi, why a new computer. If she has her Mac, that’ll work just fine. Just press Control+f5 and Voice Over will be activated. The first time it comes on, you’ll get a tutorial. For extra assistance and suggestions you can find a group in FB called Mac and Voice Over Network.
Arinvar1 points4y ago
The only advice I can suggest is that a quiet keyboard would likely be best. My wife doesn't like the clicks of a mechanical keyboard. She loves the surface pro and it's keyboard though. They higher end ones run JAWS very well, but I think JAWS is mainly about RAM.
modulus1 points4y ago
Hi there,
> What is your setup and what do you do on a daily basis?
At home, I have a desktop computer with windows 8.1, JAWS and NVDA. I don't think I've used JAWS on it in the last 6 months. I use a wireless keyboard since I don't depend on the monitor and can control the computer from different seats so long as I can hear it clearly.
I use the computer for reading, writing, browsing the web, dealing with email, the odd programming task now and then, listening to music, chatting, talking to people through voip, and occasionally recording audio.
I have a laptop with Windows 10 and NVDA for when I'm away. Mostly for browsing online, listening to music, reading ebooks, and voip applications.
I wouldn't begin to know how to do these things on a Mac. It's probably possible though, but VoiceOver is in my opinion not very efficient.
At work I have a desktop with Windows 7, NVDA, and JAWS. I use NVDA 99% of the time for word processing, dealing with spreadsheets, email, consulting legal databases, searching and reading legal articles, browsing the web, etc. JAWS I use for a few web applications we use at work for digital signing and clocking in and out which NVDA doesn't play nicely with.
> Will a keyboard with tactile feedback help initially with her learning? Or will she learn to touch typing quickly?
What do you mean by tactile feedback, a mechanical keyboard with buckling spring switches? Or some sort of indication of the letters on the keys? Not sure what you mean here. At any rate, touch typing is easy enough to learn, and she may already know how to do it (at least a lot of sighted people can). Screen readers can be configured to read each key press and that might be helpful at first, though it will probably become annoying and slow as she becomes more confident.
> Do you prefer a desktop computer or laptop?
A desktop has some advantages. A larger keyboard with a numpad, which often screen readers use, better audio hardware, and easier to use in different positions.
> Do you use any special computer peripherals?
At home I have a braille display (Ecoplus, 80 cells) and at work I have a Freedom Scientific Focus (40 cells).
> How significant is monitor quality for you?
I'm totally blind, so not at all significant. At home I keep it turned off and only have it around in case I need sighted help.
> If you work physically at an office, how does the IT depart help with your accessibility?
Not very much. They installed the screen reader, and will channel requests about the internal applications (I work for a very large employer). Other than that, they're not very well versed on it and it's mostly up to me to work things out.
enzwificritic1 points4y ago
hi,
i use NVDA on my laptop and desktop. NVDA is good.
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