Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Blind programming (self.Blind)
submitted by Jak1977
I’m trying to help a blind student in a coding class. He has a BrailleSense Polaris, which is android based.
Does anyone know of a Python programming environment that is accessible to blind people on android?
Thanks if you can help my student!
Does anyone know of a Python programming environment that is accessible to blind people on android?
Thanks if you can help my student!
CloudsOfMagellan 3 points 3y ago
AWS has one online
Could also ssh into a computer elsewhere
I don't know about native ones though
If he has an iPhone there's pythonista, could connect the android with Bluetooth to use it with braille too
Could also ssh into a computer elsewhere
I don't know about native ones though
If he has an iPhone there's pythonista, could connect the android with Bluetooth to use it with braille too
Jak1977 [OP] 1 points 3y ago
No iPhone, just this one device. I looked into ssh but struggle to find an accessible shell app, suggestions here would be welcome too!
I’ll look into AWS. Is it designed to be accessible, or is it a general use web app with accessibility features?
I’ll look into AWS. Is it designed to be accessible, or is it a general use web app with accessibility features?
CloudsOfMagellan 2 points 3y ago
This should work too
https://pypyjs.org
And here's the specific aws service
https://aws.amazon.com/cloud9/
https://pypyjs.org
And here's the specific aws service
https://aws.amazon.com/cloud9/
Jak1977 [OP] 2 points 3y ago
Awesome thanks for the links, I’ll give them a go tomorrow when I see him!
CloudsOfMagellan 1 points 3y ago
It's a whole collection of services,
One specificly is for an online IDE
No special accessibility features though that I know of
One specificly is for an online IDE
No special accessibility features though that I know of
AndAdapt 2 points 3y ago
This is probably a little to deep for a 12 year old. But, emacs is a very accessible editor for the blind, through emacspeak.
If he moves on to using a laptop could be worth a look. Google around for emacspeak, the main developer is a blind computer engineer who works at Google. COuld be an interesting role model if its the direction he finds interesting
If he moves on to using a laptop could be worth a look. Google around for emacspeak, the main developer is a blind computer engineer who works at Google. COuld be an interesting role model if its the direction he finds interesting
Jak1977 [OP] 2 points 3y ago
That’s awesome! Thanks for the heads up. He’s got self esteem issues too, so hearing about what blind people can do may help 👍
lhamil64 2 points 3y ago
I did some searching on the Play store and the first one I found that seemed to work OK with TalkBack is this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.krazeapps.pythonprogrammingcompiler
From some searching, it seems like his device does have the play store and I assume uses TalkBack since it's Android.
Although I would like to ask, is his plan to become a programmer as a career? Or is this just a required class he has to get through and has no plans on programming again?
If he plans to program professionally, he really needs to be able to use a normal computer. While he could maybe get by with an android-based device, it would be very non-standard and there will probably be some software he needs that just can't be used on Android. So in my opinion, it would be worth learning how to use a laptop with a screen reader since it opens up a lot more doors for the future.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.krazeapps.pythonprogrammingcompiler
From some searching, it seems like his device does have the play store and I assume uses TalkBack since it's Android.
Although I would like to ask, is his plan to become a programmer as a career? Or is this just a required class he has to get through and has no plans on programming again?
If he plans to program professionally, he really needs to be able to use a normal computer. While he could maybe get by with an android-based device, it would be very non-standard and there will probably be some software he needs that just can't be used on Android. So in my opinion, it would be worth learning how to use a laptop with a screen reader since it opens up a lot more doors for the future.
Jak1977 [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Thanks for the research!
Yes he has the play store. I don't think he does use TalkBack, he uses the braille output to read instead of listening, but it could be an option.
He's 12, so there isn't really a career direction yet, but he is interested in it.
I like your point about standard devices, maybe I'll have to change my ideas here. My main concern is to lower the barrier to entry for him in his classes, by keeping him using the device he uses as his daily driver, but I think you're probably right in the long term, that he'll need to be able to adapt to standard machines.
Yes he has the play store. I don't think he does use TalkBack, he uses the braille output to read instead of listening, but it could be an option.
He's 12, so there isn't really a career direction yet, but he is interested in it.
I like your point about standard devices, maybe I'll have to change my ideas here. My main concern is to lower the barrier to entry for him in his classes, by keeping him using the device he uses as his daily driver, but I think you're probably right in the long term, that he'll need to be able to adapt to standard machines.
jage9 2 points 3y ago
The Polaris has its own speech software but it loosely acts the same way as TalkBack. SO whatever apps work with TalkBack should also work for the student.
Yes, as others have said, a laptop would work better here and this is exactly why I am not a fan of the dedicated notetaker devices. Aside from programming, it is vitally important to learn how to type.
Hopefully one of the solutions here works for this class though and if he is interested in going further, then a computer may be a good next step.
It will also depend on the curriculum you are using as far as accessibility of programs is concerned. If you are doing everything with console, then great. If you are going into a lot of graphics and such, then he may want alternative assignments that are audio-based.
Yes, as others have said, a laptop would work better here and this is exactly why I am not a fan of the dedicated notetaker devices. Aside from programming, it is vitally important to learn how to type.
Hopefully one of the solutions here works for this class though and if he is interested in going further, then a computer may be a good next step.
It will also depend on the curriculum you are using as far as accessibility of programs is concerned. If you are doing everything with console, then great. If you are going into a lot of graphics and such, then he may want alternative assignments that are audio-based.
Jak1977 [OP] 1 points 3y ago
I think we’ll be doing things in console for him. We aren’t using python much for the others, because a text interface is not engaging for them, but perfect for him.
lhamil64 1 points 3y ago
For some reason I was thinking this was like a college class, didn't even think about a younger student. Unfortunately I don't know how Android handles Braille displays/devices. But I suspect something that doesn't handle TalkBack well also wouldn't handle other accessibility devices well either.
Hopefully you can find a solution that works well.
Hopefully you can find a solution that works well.
bscross32 2 points 3y ago
I don't know, it just sounds like he needs a laptop and that would make things so much easier. Anything you do there is going to be hackish with a note taker.
Jak1977 [OP] 1 points 3y ago
I’m trying to limit the number of new things he needs to learn at once. Controlling a laptop with his Braille keyboard is different to controlling the android device he uses as a daily machine.
bscross32 2 points 3y ago
True, though I'd just use the laptop keyboard and the note taker as a display if it can work that way.
mehgcap 1 points 3y ago
Honestly, a notetaker based on an old Android release isn't going to do him many favors in the long run where coding is concerned. He really needs to learn a screen reader on a standard computer.
I grew up using notetakers, albeit the older Windows CE ones from Humanware. Today, I code for my job every day, plus do some DBA work and server admin tasks over SSH. I haven't touched a notetaker in about six years, because my phone and standard computers do so much more. The simplicity and ease of notetakers is their big selling point, and they're not bad machines at all. My BrailleNote was my best friend from sixth grade through college, after all. But I didn't use it for serious coding. Hacking on JavaScript using a notetaker was a wonderful learning experience, but that was all self-taught, not part of any class. Learning Python, or PHP, or how to manage a server, or most anything beyond the very basics simply can't be done as well on a notetaker as on a computer. The sooner your student learns Windows or macOS, the better off he'll be. If on Windows, by the way, use NVDA as the screen reader if the school/state doesn't want to pay for Jaws. NVDA is free, and even written in Python. I've used it as my primary screen reader for years, even at my job, and it does great.
I grew up using notetakers, albeit the older Windows CE ones from Humanware. Today, I code for my job every day, plus do some DBA work and server admin tasks over SSH. I haven't touched a notetaker in about six years, because my phone and standard computers do so much more. The simplicity and ease of notetakers is their big selling point, and they're not bad machines at all. My BrailleNote was my best friend from sixth grade through college, after all. But I didn't use it for serious coding. Hacking on JavaScript using a notetaker was a wonderful learning experience, but that was all self-taught, not part of any class. Learning Python, or PHP, or how to manage a server, or most anything beyond the very basics simply can't be done as well on a notetaker as on a computer. The sooner your student learns Windows or macOS, the better off he'll be. If on Windows, by the way, use NVDA as the screen reader if the school/state doesn't want to pay for Jaws. NVDA is free, and even written in Python. I've used it as my primary screen reader for years, even at my job, and it does great.
Jak1977 [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Oh, not windows built in narrator? Is there a reason to avoid it? It’s on our whole network wherever he goes, but if we have to do something different we can. It’s all about his needs, the rest is just problem solving.
mehgcap 2 points 3y ago
Narrator is good for the basics, but there's a *lot* more that NVDA or Jaws can do. They have far better braille support, they have add-ons or scripts that extend their functionality, better support for more programs, and plenty more I'm not thinking of. Knowing Narrator is wonderful, since it's built into anything with Windows 10 or newer. For a daily machine that's used for coding or other tasks, though, I'd strongly suggest learning a different screen reader. NVDA is my choice, but a case can be made for Jaws as well.
Jak1977 [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Thanks for the info, hadn't considered anything else. I'll make inquiries with his specialist support people about what they recommend in this state and go from there.
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