Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Are Seeing Eye Dogs Good for Those With Total Loss of Vision? (self.Blind)
submitted by melonrinds
Hey All,
My boyfriend has been in the process of getting a seeing-eye dog for quite some time now. His mother owns a company to support animals and decided to use her company to train their first seeing eye dog which is for my boyfriend. It has been about 2.5 years now, and he still does not own the dog and isn't projected to own him till the end of the summer. He's only spent time with the dog about four times, and the mother is being very protective of the dog, and most of the training has been at her house rather than my boyfriends. This is the trainer's first time training a seeing-eye dog, and he is not coordinating with a mobility teacher who works with the blind. My boyfriend has a 100% loss of vision and has heard that seeing eye dogs are not helpful for people with absolutely no vision. He lives on disability and worries if whether or not the dog will be useful or a burden. Also, the mother who owns the training company has not been very open to him practicing with the dog in his neighborhood or letting them spend more time together.
I told my boyfriend he should sue his mother for her, not letting him spend more time with the dog. Should he not go forward with getting the dog and go through the state or not get a dog at all because of his total loss of vision?
My boyfriend has been in the process of getting a seeing-eye dog for quite some time now. His mother owns a company to support animals and decided to use her company to train their first seeing eye dog which is for my boyfriend. It has been about 2.5 years now, and he still does not own the dog and isn't projected to own him till the end of the summer. He's only spent time with the dog about four times, and the mother is being very protective of the dog, and most of the training has been at her house rather than my boyfriends. This is the trainer's first time training a seeing-eye dog, and he is not coordinating with a mobility teacher who works with the blind. My boyfriend has a 100% loss of vision and has heard that seeing eye dogs are not helpful for people with absolutely no vision. He lives on disability and worries if whether or not the dog will be useful or a burden. Also, the mother who owns the training company has not been very open to him practicing with the dog in his neighborhood or letting them spend more time together.
I told my boyfriend he should sue his mother for her, not letting him spend more time with the dog. Should he not go forward with getting the dog and go through the state or not get a dog at all because of his total loss of vision?
bscross32 8 points 3y ago
I've never owned a guide dog, still, this sounds like an absolute clusterfuck of a situation. He should not go through her company, he should go through the state. She clearly has no idea how to train a guide dog, even if she is a good dog trainer.
KillerLag 7 points 3y ago
Guide dogs can be very useful for someone with no vision, but they need to have good skills (since they don't use a cane to feel the floor anymore, they need to be oriented more from sound).
My main concern is her training one specific dog for him.... Even from schools with long lineages (80 years or so), the attrition rate can be 2/3rds failure. As in, 2 out of 3 dogs fail the program. If she is forcing the dog and he can't actually do it, then that becomes very dangerous.
Also, most instructors for guide dogs are O&M instructors first, and then apprentice for a few years to get a guide dog. Someone who doesn't know what they are doing would be some red flags....
Has he talked to anyone with a properly trained guide dog? Or a guide dog school?
My main concern is her training one specific dog for him.... Even from schools with long lineages (80 years or so), the attrition rate can be 2/3rds failure. As in, 2 out of 3 dogs fail the program. If she is forcing the dog and he can't actually do it, then that becomes very dangerous.
Also, most instructors for guide dogs are O&M instructors first, and then apprentice for a few years to get a guide dog. Someone who doesn't know what they are doing would be some red flags....
Has he talked to anyone with a properly trained guide dog? Or a guide dog school?
melonrinds [OP] 2 points 3y ago
Thank you for your insight. My boyfriend has only been blind for roughly a little less than half of his life. He just moved to his current neighborhood around two years ago and still doesn't even know his community well enough to tell the dog where to go. He knows someone currently with a guide dog, and they said by age two, he should have had the dog by two but has not explicitly talked with organizations who work with seeing-eye dogs.
KillerLag 6 points 3y ago
A guide dog starts off being raised by a family for the first 8ish month of his life. He follows someone around, so he gets used to people working, and what his role is (also, things like toilet training and such). After that, he starts the program. The length of time for the training can vary between schools and other factors as well.
If he doesn't know how to travel around his own community, that is a sign he isn't ready for a guide dog. To use a guide dog, he needs to know where he is traveling, so he can give the command for the dog where to turn and such. He should contact a local O&M instructor to get training.
Is he in the US?
If he doesn't know how to travel around his own community, that is a sign he isn't ready for a guide dog. To use a guide dog, he needs to know where he is traveling, so he can give the command for the dog where to turn and such. He should contact a local O&M instructor to get training.
Is he in the US?
melonrinds [OP] 2 points 3y ago
That is insightful. He did have a mobility teacher about a year ago, so he has a rough sense of where he is but is VERY reliant on his cane and worries that he will have no idea where to tell a dog to go. He is in the U.S, and I believe he is getting his case opened back up to work with a mobility teacher again.
KillerLag 5 points 3y ago
Leader Dogs used to have an accelerated O&M program to get people's skills up to snuff, if they were interested in getting a guide dog. I don't see the information on their website, but I know it was still around as of 2015, so send them a message and check.
https://www.visionaware.org/info/essential-skills-2/an-introduction-to-orientation-and-mobility-skills/dog-guides-for-people-with-vision-loss/leader-dogs-for-the-blind-offers-excellent-orientation-and-mobility-training/2345
https://www.leaderdog.org/programs/orientation-and-mobility-training/
One important thing to remember for him is, that a guide dog is still a dog. That is a big responsibility. He has to feed it, take it out to the bathroom, and discipline it when necessary. If it is raining/snowing and the weather is crappy, he still needs to take it out for a walk. I've been asked by a few clients before if guide dogs need to poop. Yes, they need to poop, and that needs to be picked up.
https://www.visionaware.org/info/essential-skills-2/an-introduction-to-orientation-and-mobility-skills/dog-guides-for-people-with-vision-loss/leader-dogs-for-the-blind-offers-excellent-orientation-and-mobility-training/2345
https://www.leaderdog.org/programs/orientation-and-mobility-training/
One important thing to remember for him is, that a guide dog is still a dog. That is a big responsibility. He has to feed it, take it out to the bathroom, and discipline it when necessary. If it is raining/snowing and the weather is crappy, he still needs to take it out for a walk. I've been asked by a few clients before if guide dogs need to poop. Yes, they need to poop, and that needs to be picked up.
bradley22 6 points 3y ago
I use a cane but would advise your boyfriend to go to a center or the state places to get guide dog training and not to use his mothers dog, it sounds like she has no idea what she’s doing.
WhatWouldVaderDo 5 points 3y ago
For a guide dog to be useful, the number one thing is that the handler must have good orientation and mobility skills. You not only need to get around, but now you have to get around with another creature taking care of all of the small things that a cane user takes for granted when navigating.
Second, and I’m going to sound like an ass here, but if you aren’t getting your dog from a reputable school, you are not setting yourself up for success. Training a guide dog is only part of the process, these dogs are literally bread for the job. A good guide dog school has a breeding program that examines how a litter performs during standardized evaluations, typically starting at seven weeks old. Depending on how a dog scores on a very wide variety of tests, they will be considered for the breeding program. Only the very best of the best are selected to create the next generation of guide dogs. The careful selection and genetic knowledge of a good guide dog is not something that the average person or organization cannot hope to emulate.
Dogs are typically paired with a handler between 20 and 24 months old. They are typically eliminated from a program much earlier than that. If the dog is still in training at 30 months of age, that does not bode well for their success. That’s not even considering that being a guide dog is incredibly stressful for a dog that does not actively love and want to perform that job.
That all being said, I know from personal experience that guide dogs are extremely useful for individuals who are completely blind. I regularly travel with my guide dog to other countries, and find him invaluable especially since I typically travel solo. This is anecdotal though, and I encourage you to do your own research.
The last thing I’ll rant about is that going through a state or other local program is not the way to get a guide dog from a top school in the US (assuming that you are in the US). All of the reputable schools are non-profit organization with no state or government associations. If you need pointers, take a look at the web sites of Guide Dogs for the Blind, Guiding Eyes for the blind, or the Seeing Eye for accurate information. I’m not saying that they are the only reputable schools in the US, but they have the most advanced breeding and R&D programs of any schools. Interested clients need to reach out to them directly to start the process of evaluating if the individual in question is a good candidate for a dog.
I’m sorry if I come off negatively. I’m doing a Ph.D. in the guide dog field, and have pretty strong feelings about the subject and the inaccurate information that repeatedly pops-up. That, and scotch is a hell of a drink. I hope that you find something that I and others have said to be useful in your search.
Second, and I’m going to sound like an ass here, but if you aren’t getting your dog from a reputable school, you are not setting yourself up for success. Training a guide dog is only part of the process, these dogs are literally bread for the job. A good guide dog school has a breeding program that examines how a litter performs during standardized evaluations, typically starting at seven weeks old. Depending on how a dog scores on a very wide variety of tests, they will be considered for the breeding program. Only the very best of the best are selected to create the next generation of guide dogs. The careful selection and genetic knowledge of a good guide dog is not something that the average person or organization cannot hope to emulate.
Dogs are typically paired with a handler between 20 and 24 months old. They are typically eliminated from a program much earlier than that. If the dog is still in training at 30 months of age, that does not bode well for their success. That’s not even considering that being a guide dog is incredibly stressful for a dog that does not actively love and want to perform that job.
That all being said, I know from personal experience that guide dogs are extremely useful for individuals who are completely blind. I regularly travel with my guide dog to other countries, and find him invaluable especially since I typically travel solo. This is anecdotal though, and I encourage you to do your own research.
The last thing I’ll rant about is that going through a state or other local program is not the way to get a guide dog from a top school in the US (assuming that you are in the US). All of the reputable schools are non-profit organization with no state or government associations. If you need pointers, take a look at the web sites of Guide Dogs for the Blind, Guiding Eyes for the blind, or the Seeing Eye for accurate information. I’m not saying that they are the only reputable schools in the US, but they have the most advanced breeding and R&D programs of any schools. Interested clients need to reach out to them directly to start the process of evaluating if the individual in question is a good candidate for a dog.
I’m sorry if I come off negatively. I’m doing a Ph.D. in the guide dog field, and have pretty strong feelings about the subject and the inaccurate information that repeatedly pops-up. That, and scotch is a hell of a drink. I hope that you find something that I and others have said to be useful in your search.
BlueRock956 3 points 3y ago
Your boyfriend is most likely not suitable for a guide dog. He is living with disability aid, and guide dogs are expensive to take care of. The dog that is supposedly being trained will be of no use, because the trainer does not know what they are doing. A support anymal is not a service animalso, they require different training.
If he decides to contact a reputable guide dog training center, he will have to demonstrate that he is able to navigate routes independently using a cane.
If he decides to contact a reputable guide dog training center, he will have to demonstrate that he is able to navigate routes independently using a cane.
Jennimae4u 3 points 3y ago
My boyfriend is 100% blind and has a seeing eye dog Mia. He had to go through a long training program with the dog. They had to make sure they were a good fit, they had to learn how to work together. My boyfriend had to learn how to let her guide. This was all done at a facility. It was imperative that they trained together. Having her is super beneficial for him. If have any questions please don’t hesitate. If I don’t know the answer I will ask my boyfriend. What his mother is doing is extremely wrong.
JynxBJJ 1 points 3y ago
Four of the 14 of us getting guide dogs were completely blind. It was at least the 2nd digs fir all of them. But your friend should really apply to a school that specializes in training seeing eye dogs. I went throughLeaderdogs for the Blind, at no expense to me.
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