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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2020 - 04 - 27 - ID#g954qd
2
Can someone help with Braille display/notetaker recommendations? (self.Blind)
submitted by lil-alfalfa-sprout
Hi all,

I'm a new TVI trying to navigate the "new normal" of distance learning with a young beginning Braille learner. My school wants to buy a Braille display or notetaker for my student, and they asked me to prepare a proposal. I have limited experience with this technology as I'm new to the profession, so I could really use some input for regular Braille display and notetaker users. Your input is much appreciated, especially because I can't actually demo these devices in person right now due to the COVID situation.

To start: Are there any marked advantages of a notetaker over a display? My understanding is that the biggest advantage would be that he could create, edit, and save documents on a notetaker without connecting to an additional device. But I feel like he will pretty much always have access to an iOS device to which he could connect a Braille display. So if you use a notetaker, why do you prefer it over a Braille display?

One feature I think could be helpful would be speech output. Since this little guy isn't proficient in Braille yet, and neither are his parents, I feel like a device with speech output would be easier for them to set up while going through menu options, etc. This seems like an uncommon feature though––anyone have recommendations?

The devices I'm currently considering are the $1 and the $1 by Humanware.

EDIT: Thanks for all your help! I think I have a much better understanding now. This community is always so helpful to me!
CloudyBeep 3 points 3y ago
In the past, notetakers were desirable because you could store documents on the device. This is no longer the case because hybrids like the Focus 40 Blue and the QBraille XL have this functionality. I would ask why you think you need a notetaker. The BrailleNote Touch could be nice because it works nicely with Android, has an inbuilt screen and is said to support Nemeth quite well, however the BrailleSense Polaris doesn't work with Android well and is extremely unreliable with braille math.

I would also suggest a device that is durable. The Focus 40 Blue 5th Generation was designed to be very solid.

WHAT will you be using the device with? If you get a BrailleNote Touch and the user is in the first few years of school, another device might not be necessary. iPads can be hard because text entry with a braille display can be unreliable (see my other comment), and using a Bluetooth keyboard for text entry is even worse. I would always suggest a PC with JAWS if enough money was available. If you get an ElBraille 40, you have the advantage of a braille display and a Windows PC in one device. However, I would also suggest purchasing a Bluetooth keyboard with this option so the student learns to type on a standard keyboard and can type more quickly.

Finally, it's important to ensure that whatever you purchase has enough braille cells. Devices with less than 32 cells are not appropriate for a school environment, contrary to what manufacturers might tell you. This is because shorter lines of braille rdquire the hands to spend more time returning to the beginning of the display, thereby decreasing reading speed and impacting fluency for younger students; this has been proven with both children and adults in studies.

And finally, just because he has a braille display or notetaker doesn't mean that he should stop receiving hardcopy braille.
lil-alfalfa-sprout [OP] 2 points 3y ago
>The BrailleNote Touch could be nice because it works nicely with Android

What do you exactly mean by this? It will still work with an iOS device as a display, no?

​

>And finally, just because he has a braille display or notetaker doesn't mean that he should stop receiving hardcopy braille.

Agreed––but alas, we are in an indefinite period of online learning due to COVID.
CloudyBeep 1 points 3y ago
I didn't word it very well.

The BrailleNote Touch and the BrailleSense Polaris run Android. This means that in addition to the apps designed by the manufacturer, you can also use Android as if you were using an Android tablet, with full access to any app you might want to download from the Google Play Store. However, the BrailleSense Polaris doesn't work very well with third-party Android apps. Both of these devices can still be used as braille displays with other devices.
Laser_Lens_4 2 points 3y ago
I use a 5th generation Vispero Focus 40 Blue. For me, it was a compromise between the Humanware Brailliant and the HIMS Qbraille. The former had a control set that felt a bit too basic, and the latter proved to be overwhelming by fusing a qwerty keyboard and Perkins keyboard together. Any current-generation Braille display will have basic untethered functionality like a clock, calendar, basic text editor, and possibly a BRF reader. Braille notetakers generally have less problems with Braille translation, since they're purpose built for it. Screen readers like JAWS and NVDA are good with Braille, but not perfect. Voiceover for iOS is also pretty good with Braille, but it does have its share of bugs. None of them will give you real-time nemeth translation, as far as I know. If they use Nemeth code, or any dedicated Braille maths code, then a full notetaker is the way to go. I suggest a Humanware Braillenote in that case, especially if it will be used for high-level math. That said, the Braillenote Touch Plus is about $6000USD and pretty much every 40-cell display costs around $3000USD. HIMS does offer some smaller, and cheaper note takers, but most users tend to prefer Humanware's offering.

​

The way I use my display is usually tethered to my Windows desktop with NVDA (and the custom drivers because the auto-install ones don't support NVDA for some asinine reason). If I'm working with literary content, then I'll use UEB. For everything else, I switch over to CBC. Computer Braille is handy for any type of coding or technical content that doesn't lend well to contracted Braille. Since I don't know a dedicated Braille math code, I use a simplified Python syntax. Braille on Mac is broken and the mainstream implementation of Braille on Android is an unstable mess, so you should have some sort of iOS device handy for Brailling on the go. Good news is that all the modern displays have Bluetooth built in. Also, Notetakers can function as a Braille display.

​

TL;DR Braille displays are basically just terminals that must be tied to an external machine. Braille notetakers are portable computers with Braille input and output. And yes, notetakers do have speech output. The current Braillenote runs Android with custom software uptimized for Braille.
lil-alfalfa-sprout [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Okay, this is super helpful. You just touched on a bunch of things I wanted to ask about. I'm trying to understand more about the Nemeth issue... So, the devices will have trouble translating Nemeth, but could you read pre-translated Nemeth files on the device?

Just for some background––this student would currently only use the device with his iPad.

The Braillenote Touch Plus is an intriguing option as it might be more friendly for his sighted family to help him set it up. I'm worried about sending them a device that they have no idea how to set up, especially since none of them are proficient in Braille. It has so many more features than he would currently need, but it may be a good long-term investment
Laser_Lens_4 1 points 3y ago
I don't have much experience with iOS or iPadOS, but every other screen reader I've tried doesn't do real-time Nemeth translation. I can load a brf file onto my Braille display with Nemeth code written in it, but brf files are read-only, at least on my display. It is kind of a pain though. I have to connect the thing via a wire and boot it into mass-storage mode which involves holding down some keys. It's kind of finicky and is meant more for reading long books. When tethered to a computer, a braille display relies on the output from the screen reader. A braille notetaker handles everything internally.

One of the nice things about the braillenote touch is that you can flip up the physical Perkins keyboard to reveal a display underneath. You can use the virtual Braille keyboard if you want to keep the noise level down, and it's a good aid for a sighted instructor to see what the student is doing.
lil-alfalfa-sprout [OP] 1 points 3y ago
But if you're using the notetaker as a display, it relies on screen reader output right?
Laser_Lens_4 1 points 3y ago
Correct. A notetaker can double as a braille display to connect to an external machine with a screen reader.
bjayernaeiy 1 points 3y ago
Kind of late to the party here, but I recently had the opportunity to try out an Orbit Reader display. It worked pretty well with NVDA and it was generally a good experience. The display has a remote and standby mode, remote being when connected to another device such as a phone or a computer and standby the display being it's own little computer. Give it a look. $1

Edit: To clarify, I was using the Orbit Reader 20, which might not be sufficient for a school environment.
BlueRock956 1 points 3y ago
Hey, I think you have the right idea. Have the student learn how to use main stream technology. IOS devices and a laptop with JAWS are stable devices, and they are even better when pared with a Braille Display.
Stick81 1 points 3y ago
I love my Brailliant 32, I use it with my PC and Android devices. It's even been pretty friendly with my Linux installs.
modulus 1 points 3y ago
Speaking for myself, doing any sort of serious text entry in iOS is an incredible pain. From that standpoint having a note taker would be an advantage over using a display connected to an iOS device. Probably one could get used to either after a while, though.

Regarding a note taker, it would also have speech output in general during use, not just regarding setup. This may not be the most useful factor if the aim is to learn braille, but it could be very useful for someone who isn't confident with braille yet and help them avoid wasting time.

In the end it depends a little on use cases, budget, and so on.
lil-alfalfa-sprout [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Can you explain why text entry is a pain on iOS?
CloudyBeep 2 points 3y ago
Apple frequently introduces bugs. Whether it's waiting several seconds for each character to be translated, VoiceOver locking up in the middle of text entry or the cursor disappearing, it's not a pleasant experience. Many apps like Office and Pages are just much easier to use on a PC, and reading documents on an iPad is extremely difficult because it can be hard to navigate them. I suggest a PC with either a notetaker or braille display.
lil-alfalfa-sprout [OP] 2 points 3y ago
Oh yikes... That would not be good for my little guy who is just beginning to learn Braille.
CloudyBeep 1 points 3y ago
No, it wouldn't. If you can't afford a Windows PC, Chromebooks are said to be getting better with assistive technology, though I haven't tried one myself. And if you're debating between PC models, just about anything will work with JAWS, but ensure the student likes the feel of the keyboard.
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