Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Using Computers (self.Blind)
submitted by dunktheball
I am legally blind and have to get right up within a few inches of computer screens to read them. Since the keyboard is in front of the monitor, this means I have to elan forward. Over so many years of doing this I now have bad issues with my head, neck, shoulders, and back.
Any ideas on how to bring the monitor more towards me and still being able to read/use the keyboard? I can't think of any idea where I could still use the keyboard and not have to bend over it to see the monitor.
The keyboard is yet another issue.... I mostly know by memory where most keys are, but still I am ordering an extra large print mechanical keyboard because sometimes I do somehow get my fingers misaligned and have to bend way down trying to read keys. I can't really touch type because my fingers feel awkward when trying to position them that way. I actually type faster with two fingers than most can with eight. lol.
Any ideas on how to bring the monitor more towards me and still being able to read/use the keyboard? I can't think of any idea where I could still use the keyboard and not have to bend over it to see the monitor.
The keyboard is yet another issue.... I mostly know by memory where most keys are, but still I am ordering an extra large print mechanical keyboard because sometimes I do somehow get my fingers misaligned and have to bend way down trying to read keys. I can't really touch type because my fingers feel awkward when trying to position them that way. I actually type faster with two fingers than most can with eight. lol.
impablomations 5 points 3y ago
>I do somehow get my fingers misaligned and have to bend way down trying to read keys.
If you feel the F and J keys there is a tiny bump on them, that is to help you realign your fingers.
>I actually type faster with two fingers than most can with eight. lol.
When I was still working, my measured touch typing top speed was 125wpm, can you beat that? :p
Seriously though, try and learn touch typing. It only feels weird because you're not used to it. I learned when I was about 10 when my dad taught me on my 1st computer. Haven't had to look at a keyboard since I was about 16.
If you feel the F and J keys there is a tiny bump on them, that is to help you realign your fingers.
>I actually type faster with two fingers than most can with eight. lol.
When I was still working, my measured touch typing top speed was 125wpm, can you beat that? :p
Seriously though, try and learn touch typing. It only feels weird because you're not used to it. I learned when I was about 10 when my dad taught me on my 1st computer. Haven't had to look at a keyboard since I was about 16.
dunktheball [OP] 1 points 3y ago
I will end up trying again, but somehow my fingers were feeling crammed together too much to the point of it physically bothering me. I do programming and yet don't touch type. lol.
What's interesting is if I just look down at the keyboard, without being able to read the keys, I do usually know where they all are. That is why I am wondering if it's even worth it to buy the large print keyboard, but occasionally I do need to read a few keys.
I timed how many words I was typing per minute, a while back, but don't remember how many. It would surprise people, though, because I have typed so much for so many years, this same way, that I am still fast.
Another thing I am trying to figure out which size monitor to get, given I get right up to it. Too big means moving my head too much. Too small means smaller fonts. 24 seems about right, but most of the good features are on 27+ inch ones. I want 4k for video, otherwise would keep a low resolution for reading.
What's interesting is if I just look down at the keyboard, without being able to read the keys, I do usually know where they all are. That is why I am wondering if it's even worth it to buy the large print keyboard, but occasionally I do need to read a few keys.
I timed how many words I was typing per minute, a while back, but don't remember how many. It would surprise people, though, because I have typed so much for so many years, this same way, that I am still fast.
Another thing I am trying to figure out which size monitor to get, given I get right up to it. Too big means moving my head too much. Too small means smaller fonts. 24 seems about right, but most of the good features are on 27+ inch ones. I want 4k for video, otherwise would keep a low resolution for reading.
codeplaysleep 1 points 3y ago
A few years ago, I got a monitor arm to bring my monitor forward so that I wasn't hunched over so much and still position the keyboard on the desk to type comfortably.
As for what monitor to get, I use a 29in ultrawide and I find it's the perfect balance between "not too much head turning" and "gee, I wish I could have a dual monitor setup for all these terminal windows."
And now for my rant on touch-typing and programmers: Learn to touch type. You're a programmer. You use your keyboard every day. Besides the computer itself, it's the main tool you need to do your job. I have seen people who can't touch type not get programming jobs they interview for because of this. Whether it's an accurate assessment or not, watching someone who can't properly type try and write code just screams "I haven't done the work of learning the most basic skill needed to do my job."
As for what monitor to get, I use a 29in ultrawide and I find it's the perfect balance between "not too much head turning" and "gee, I wish I could have a dual monitor setup for all these terminal windows."
And now for my rant on touch-typing and programmers: Learn to touch type. You're a programmer. You use your keyboard every day. Besides the computer itself, it's the main tool you need to do your job. I have seen people who can't touch type not get programming jobs they interview for because of this. Whether it's an accurate assessment or not, watching someone who can't properly type try and write code just screams "I haven't done the work of learning the most basic skill needed to do my job."
dunktheball [OP] 1 points 3y ago
It's not that I am just not wanting to do it, though. When I tried, my fingers bothered me. It feels like the keys are crammed too close together for my fingers to even align properly. Not sure if it's due to some physical issue, maybe I naturally have just kept my fingers farther apart than most do, or maybe I'd get used to it.
As far as the programming goes, though, I learned it on my own and am self employed. I just do it when I feel like making something or if someone asks me to make them something.
As far as the programming goes, though, I learned it on my own and am self employed. I just do it when I feel like making something or if someone asks me to make them something.
MizzerC 1 points 3y ago
>Another thing I am trying to figure out which size monitor to get
The VA is convinced that 22" monitors is the best for size and readability for its veterans. I tend to agree with them on that. I'm not overwhelmed by the size if I am up close to the monitor, but it doesn't feel like a tiny matchbox when needing to do something visually intensive.
And if anything, can always have a secondary monitor with a larger screen for when needed. ( I've a 40 inch TV plugged in as secondary that I use for videos, etc. )
The VA is convinced that 22" monitors is the best for size and readability for its veterans. I tend to agree with them on that. I'm not overwhelmed by the size if I am up close to the monitor, but it doesn't feel like a tiny matchbox when needing to do something visually intensive.
And if anything, can always have a secondary monitor with a larger screen for when needed. ( I've a 40 inch TV plugged in as secondary that I use for videos, etc. )
bscross32 3 points 3y ago
Quit using your vision, it'll be the best decision you've ever made, trust me. It's not at all worth putting yourself through that day in and out. Get a screen reader and start learning to use it. I guarantee you that you'll feel a lot better.
dunktheball [OP] 2 points 3y ago
Everybody has been giving great advice. Thanks! I', slow to change so I guess that is why I have gone so long not taking actions to get things easier. I have always had resolutions low and text/icon sizes large, but otherwise haven't tried a lot.
Only thing about browser magnification settings has always (sine mobile designs became a thing) been that the higher you go, it triggers tablet mode or phone mode and changes layouts. But if it matters I lower it back down on some sites. Also I make apps for forum software, so that ahs always been convenient that I can just change browser magnification to get a better idea of how things will look on pc, tablet, phone.
Only thing about browser magnification settings has always (sine mobile designs became a thing) been that the higher you go, it triggers tablet mode or phone mode and changes layouts. But if it matters I lower it back down on some sites. Also I make apps for forum software, so that ahs always been convenient that I can just change browser magnification to get a better idea of how things will look on pc, tablet, phone.
MizzerC 2 points 3y ago
Get an articulating arm for the monitor.
Didn't take much effort for me to get one out of my VIST coordinator with the VA, so I wouldn't imagine it too difficult for civilian vision programs.
Greatly helps out for the varying differences in my day to day vision. Some days I want it back a few more inches, some days I need the thing practically against my nose.
I'd also recommend changing default settings to the operating system, such as font sizes and resolution. As glorious as higher resolutions can be, having it toned down can GREATLY impact one's vision. I often run things at 1024 by 768 despite my monitor able to handle 4k.
As for what everyone else has said about the keyboards.. Knowing where to place your fingers via the tabs on the F and J keys is your biggest aide. Can't really get around that. It's just too consistant with logic that you need a starting resting point for your fingers to be before you can let memorization take effect. Don't believe that? Try seting your hands one key offset and see how well you can type properly. Lol.
I use the ZoomText keyboard ( though I often use Microsoft's built in magnifier more than ZoomText. ZT is best for office work, not general computing/gaming. ) The bigger text on the keyboard can certainly help out, but just having been a typist for darn near all my life, just knowing where F and J keys is generally all I need. It's what allows me to sit down at nearly any computer and function.
Didn't take much effort for me to get one out of my VIST coordinator with the VA, so I wouldn't imagine it too difficult for civilian vision programs.
Greatly helps out for the varying differences in my day to day vision. Some days I want it back a few more inches, some days I need the thing practically against my nose.
I'd also recommend changing default settings to the operating system, such as font sizes and resolution. As glorious as higher resolutions can be, having it toned down can GREATLY impact one's vision. I often run things at 1024 by 768 despite my monitor able to handle 4k.
As for what everyone else has said about the keyboards.. Knowing where to place your fingers via the tabs on the F and J keys is your biggest aide. Can't really get around that. It's just too consistant with logic that you need a starting resting point for your fingers to be before you can let memorization take effect. Don't believe that? Try seting your hands one key offset and see how well you can type properly. Lol.
I use the ZoomText keyboard ( though I often use Microsoft's built in magnifier more than ZoomText. ZT is best for office work, not general computing/gaming. ) The bigger text on the keyboard can certainly help out, but just having been a typist for darn near all my life, just knowing where F and J keys is generally all I need. It's what allows me to sit down at nearly any computer and function.
dunktheball [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Thanks for the info. I thought there was something like that (articulating arm)(, but didn't know what they were called. Also a lot of monitors come on stands that allow them to move horizontally, rotate, etc... although I am thinking an arm would still be better. I will check it all out.
For a while now, I have been feeling for F and J. Never even did that until a year or two ago, though. That and having memorized most of the keys makes me wonder if I am wasting money buying an extra large print keyboard, but now this guy has spent some time helping me design it, so I hate to not buy. lol. I THINK it will still help because I occasionally do need to look. It's $120, though, so hopefully it will benefit me...
For my current monitor (replacing soon, once I figure out which one I want), I think I have it set to that same resolution. I change it only when some program doesn't work well with it. And on the new one I will also keep it a low res unless I want to watch a 4k video.
Also, thanks for reminding me about zoomtext and the MS magnifier. I really forget about software like that. I also just updated my browser to the new version of Edge and am getting settings honestly better than I have before for even larger fonts without ruining websites' functionality.
For a while now, I have been feeling for F and J. Never even did that until a year or two ago, though. That and having memorized most of the keys makes me wonder if I am wasting money buying an extra large print keyboard, but now this guy has spent some time helping me design it, so I hate to not buy. lol. I THINK it will still help because I occasionally do need to look. It's $120, though, so hopefully it will benefit me...
For my current monitor (replacing soon, once I figure out which one I want), I think I have it set to that same resolution. I change it only when some program doesn't work well with it. And on the new one I will also keep it a low res unless I want to watch a 4k video.
Also, thanks for reminding me about zoomtext and the MS magnifier. I really forget about software like that. I also just updated my browser to the new version of Edge and am getting settings honestly better than I have before for even larger fonts without ruining websites' functionality.
Hellsacomin94 2 points 3y ago
There are great videos on YouTube from San at “The Blind Life” and Derek at “Life after sight Liss” in setting up computers for those with low vision. Basically three things:
1. Buy a large monitor (32 in or better)
2. Put it on a monitor arm, not the stand it comes with. This makes a huge difference, you can put the monitor exactly where you need it.
3. Learn to use the built in magnifier and high contrast settings
4. Get a high contrast keyboard or keyboard labels.
Good luck!
1. Buy a large monitor (32 in or better)
2. Put it on a monitor arm, not the stand it comes with. This makes a huge difference, you can put the monitor exactly where you need it.
3. Learn to use the built in magnifier and high contrast settings
4. Get a high contrast keyboard or keyboard labels.
Good luck!
dunktheball [OP] 2 points 3y ago
Thanks! That is a good idea, too, and what I was wondering about. When I went to physical therapy I noticed they had their computers on some sort of cart and the computer monitor had an arm like that. That would be ideal.
goldstarling 2 points 3y ago
My bf is like this, he can touch type and recommends putting the keyboard behind the monitor, if you can get a monitor that will go high enough to allow this. Or finding a screen stand that moves horizontally to allow you to bring it forward. Loctek on Amazon is an example. :)
dunktheball [OP] 3 points 3y ago
Thanks. If I can do that, it sure would solve a lot of my problems. Or even without touch typing, I may be able to, as long as I remember the ordering of all keys. There are only a few I get mixed up on. I am hoping with the large and bold letters on the new keyboard I am buying I could maybe see it well enough to where even with it behind the monitor I could glance and see a letter if my hands get al misplaced.
Either way I think I will figure out a better way than I have been doing. I should not have let it get this bad before finding solutions. I have gone to physical therapy 4 times...
Either way I think I will figure out a better way than I have been doing. I should not have let it get this bad before finding solutions. I have gone to physical therapy 4 times...
goldstarling 1 points 3y ago
Oh boy! Well, really hoping it helps you.
dunktheball [OP] 1 points 3y ago
My shoulder and neck are acting up so bad now I can't stand it and nothing is helping me get over it. :( I'm sure it's a combination of the pinched nerve and sleeping wrong on it and it's so much pain. Hopefully it feels better soon... then still have to figure out this posture issue.
dunktheball [OP] 1 points 3y ago
You know what's interesting? The new Microsoft Edge (the version based off of chromium) seems to remember my zoom settings per site sometimes. I was just thinking recently that would be nice because some sites mess up more than others with a lot of browser zoom.
Gmail is one that wasn't working well because some columns were off the screen and no scrollbars. But now when I went back to it, it still has my slightly lower zoom to combat that, while other sites still have my higher zoom.
Gmail is one that wasn't working well because some columns were off the screen and no scrollbars. But now when I went back to it, it still has my slightly lower zoom to combat that, while other sites still have my higher zoom.
autistictechgirl1990 1 points 3y ago
Just use the screen reader like NVDA
meoverhere 1 points 3y ago
Check out atdec systema monitor arms.
You can get them cheaper than in their website. They’re still pricey but very very good and will let you have a good degree of horizontal adjustment without taking any desk space at all.m
Really though you need to get an occupational therapist to review your setup and advise on what would work better.
You can get them cheaper than in their website. They’re still pricey but very very good and will let you have a good degree of horizontal adjustment without taking any desk space at all.m
Really though you need to get an occupational therapist to review your setup and advise on what would work better.
thatblindgirl 1 points 3y ago
I put my keyboard on my lap and type without looking and that has really helped my back. You can also get some magnifying glasses to wear so you don’t strain your eyes too much.
Laser_Lens_4 1 points 3y ago
A monitor arm with a giant screen is your best bet. have you also considered switching over to a screen reader? It sounds like you're really struggling. That may be a better option in the long run in order to reduce neck and back strain.
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