Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Indoor navigation (oh joy, another survey) (self.Blind)
submitted by Rethunker
Howdy, folks. My company, Echobatix, is developing a wearable indoor navigation system for the blind, the Deafblind, and those with low vision.
Although I expect you are no more excited than I am about filling out surveys, I could use some help. It’s impractical to run user tests during the lockdown. Surveys allow us to gather data about the features people want.
Many of you may be engineers or researchers, too, so I’ll mention that neither this survey nor future surveys will reveal how the system works. For now we’re focused on figuring out what features people want first.
If you’re visually impaired, and willing to spend 6 to 9 minutes answering 8 survey questions, then here’s the SurveyMonkey link:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Echobatix_features_1R
Although I expect you are no more excited than I am about filling out surveys, I could use some help. It’s impractical to run user tests during the lockdown. Surveys allow us to gather data about the features people want.
Many of you may be engineers or researchers, too, so I’ll mention that neither this survey nor future surveys will reveal how the system works. For now we’re focused on figuring out what features people want first.
If you’re visually impaired, and willing to spend 6 to 9 minutes answering 8 survey questions, then here’s the SurveyMonkey link:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Echobatix_features_1R
KillerLag 3 points 3y ago
With the logo and name, I would guess the system is based off of echolocation or ultrasonic sensors to check distance (although that could just be the name and it uses lasers or another tech). Or maybe it's completely off, some of the questions in the survey were not what I would have expected.
Is the product intended to be a complete stand-alone product, or would the person still need to use a white cane/guide dog for travel?
Is the product intended to be a complete stand-alone product, or would the person still need to use a white cane/guide dog for travel?
Laser_Lens_4 4 points 3y ago
Oh please no not another crappy echolocation band
Rethunker [OP] 2 points 3y ago
Sorry, I'll be more clear. You may have given up on this thread already, but I want to provide a more detailed explanation about the indoor navigation system. My comments here will mirror some of what I wrote in the reply to u/KillerLag.
I spent more than twenty years in image processing for industrial automation, most recently in 3D vision for robot guidance. Image sensors play an important role in the navigation system. That said, I've made an effort to ensure that the use of image sensors doesn't end up reinforcing sighted bias, which still appears to be a problem in the design of a number of assistive tech products on the market.
Ultrasound isn't a key component, and echolocation is more an inspiration than anything. From what I saw in another thread in r\\blind, some people in this group are tired of hearing about bats and echolocation. Understandable. But one of my blind team members and I both happen to love bats in ways unrelated to our work, and I used to live close to an extraordinarily large bat colony. Had I lived a few hours farther north, maybe the company would have been called Armadillo Systems instead.
Taken individually, the components and features of the navigation system superficially resemble other products on the market, but the whole will be something unusual if not unique. My team includes a leading researcher in navigation for the blind, experts in assistive technology and accessibility, and others.
This is all vague, I know, but for a while yet I'm in the awkward position of needing to operate like a stealth startup but also get feedback from people who may use the system. Running a survey is more efficient than trying to schedule dozens of Zoom calls. So although surveys are annoying for virtually everyone involve, from survey creator to survey taker, I'm not sure there's a better way to collect feedback when it's not reasonable to meet in person.
I spent more than twenty years in image processing for industrial automation, most recently in 3D vision for robot guidance. Image sensors play an important role in the navigation system. That said, I've made an effort to ensure that the use of image sensors doesn't end up reinforcing sighted bias, which still appears to be a problem in the design of a number of assistive tech products on the market.
Ultrasound isn't a key component, and echolocation is more an inspiration than anything. From what I saw in another thread in r\\blind, some people in this group are tired of hearing about bats and echolocation. Understandable. But one of my blind team members and I both happen to love bats in ways unrelated to our work, and I used to live close to an extraordinarily large bat colony. Had I lived a few hours farther north, maybe the company would have been called Armadillo Systems instead.
Taken individually, the components and features of the navigation system superficially resemble other products on the market, but the whole will be something unusual if not unique. My team includes a leading researcher in navigation for the blind, experts in assistive technology and accessibility, and others.
This is all vague, I know, but for a while yet I'm in the awkward position of needing to operate like a stealth startup but also get feedback from people who may use the system. Running a survey is more efficient than trying to schedule dozens of Zoom calls. So although surveys are annoying for virtually everyone involve, from survey creator to survey taker, I'm not sure there's a better way to collect feedback when it's not reasonable to meet in person.
KillerLag 2 points 3y ago
It definitely sounds like an interesting product. I know image processing has become a very hot topic lately, with some advances I would have next expected 10 years ago.
Rethunker [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Thanks, u/KillerLag. You're right that image processing is hot these days. Twenty years ago I would sometimes explain my field by saying it was like using Photoshop to help robots and other machines make decisions. And then sometimes I had to explain what Photoshop was. People who worked in factories, though, have seen this technology since the 1990s.
An odd problem now is that an image processing technique that has been around for decades has recently become hip, virtually to the exclusion of other equally useful techniques, and it could lead to a rather unpleasant reckoning.
In figurative terms that technique has become the hammer used to pound every nail, screw, pin, rope, button, light switch, etc., and though the implementations are better than they used to be, the fundamental limitations remain. And one my goals is to make sure certain technology becomes available before disappointment with that "hammer" technique sets the assistive tech industry back.
An odd problem now is that an image processing technique that has been around for decades has recently become hip, virtually to the exclusion of other equally useful techniques, and it could lead to a rather unpleasant reckoning.
In figurative terms that technique has become the hammer used to pound every nail, screw, pin, rope, button, light switch, etc., and though the implementations are better than they used to be, the fundamental limitations remain. And one my goals is to make sure certain technology becomes available before disappointment with that "hammer" technique sets the assistive tech industry back.
[deleted] 1 points 3y ago
[deleted]
Rethunker [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Thank you for taking the survey! There will be a follow-up survey with questions that hint at how someone will use the system, and some of the components involved.
The product is meant to complement rather than replace a cane and/or guide dog. The purpose is to fill in the gaps of existing technology and accentuate the orientation & mobility skills and senses a person already has.
Helping seniors with acquired vision loss—the majority of the legally blind—means providing features suitable for those without lifelong O&M skills. The underlying sensing functionality is the same.
Good guess with the logo and name. Bats are more an inspiration: their sense of echolocation is a sense humans don’t have (with the exception of some very talented people). One of my teammates and I both love bats.
There are some uses for ultrasound, but I’ll say that since I’ve spent my career in image processing, optical sensors play a larger role (because of the physics, availability and cost of appropriate hardware, etc.)
If you were the survey taker who mentioned GPS, then yes, the system is designed to operate without GPS, and also without WiFi or a cell connection. There is also no dependence on beacons, which are unlikely to be installed in many places, and are a pain to maintain. Such external devices all provide data that’s useful, but still insufficient. And having the external data cut off suddenly would render the system useless, which I find unacceptable. So it’s the hard way.
Long story short, setting a goal for the system to operate independent of those sources of data leads to some fun but very weird tech that has required some fun but very weird thinking. I get to pour a career’s worth of work just to get started, and then there’s plenty of new stuff to do.
Among other things, the survey and its follow-on surveys provide a basis for describing the full system.
Given how long my reply is, for which I beg your pardon, you can imagine how it might take a while to explain all the moving parts, most of which are just bits and pieces making the interfaces possible. Which is a whole topic by itself, but for another day.
The product is meant to complement rather than replace a cane and/or guide dog. The purpose is to fill in the gaps of existing technology and accentuate the orientation & mobility skills and senses a person already has.
Helping seniors with acquired vision loss—the majority of the legally blind—means providing features suitable for those without lifelong O&M skills. The underlying sensing functionality is the same.
Good guess with the logo and name. Bats are more an inspiration: their sense of echolocation is a sense humans don’t have (with the exception of some very talented people). One of my teammates and I both love bats.
There are some uses for ultrasound, but I’ll say that since I’ve spent my career in image processing, optical sensors play a larger role (because of the physics, availability and cost of appropriate hardware, etc.)
If you were the survey taker who mentioned GPS, then yes, the system is designed to operate without GPS, and also without WiFi or a cell connection. There is also no dependence on beacons, which are unlikely to be installed in many places, and are a pain to maintain. Such external devices all provide data that’s useful, but still insufficient. And having the external data cut off suddenly would render the system useless, which I find unacceptable. So it’s the hard way.
Long story short, setting a goal for the system to operate independent of those sources of data leads to some fun but very weird tech that has required some fun but very weird thinking. I get to pour a career’s worth of work just to get started, and then there’s plenty of new stuff to do.
Among other things, the survey and its follow-on surveys provide a basis for describing the full system.
Given how long my reply is, for which I beg your pardon, you can imagine how it might take a while to explain all the moving parts, most of which are just bits and pieces making the interfaces possible. Which is a whole topic by itself, but for another day.
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