Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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All these posts about people doing their college projects really irritate me. (self.Blind)
submitted by Drunken_Idaho
Seems like so many posts on here are people trying to get advice for ill conceived college projects or more useless products we don't need.
They don't ever seem to come to us with our needs actually in mind, just wanting an easy a on their engineering project.
We don't need a coffee mug thats easier to pick up. We don't need another vibrating sonar gismo thats gonna cost 500 dollars and work for 2 weeks and never get replaced when the company goes under.
We don't need another shitty mobility aid called the bat or the dolphin' or any of that. We all know those animals use sonar and we don't care.
If the only thing you know about blind people is that you saw the Ray Charles movie when you were a kid and you feel vaguely inspired or whatever, maybe you should either do a bit more research or leave us alone.
I know this is just one guy's opinion, so, thoughts? How do the rest of you guys feel about this?
They don't ever seem to come to us with our needs actually in mind, just wanting an easy a on their engineering project.
We don't need a coffee mug thats easier to pick up. We don't need another vibrating sonar gismo thats gonna cost 500 dollars and work for 2 weeks and never get replaced when the company goes under.
We don't need another shitty mobility aid called the bat or the dolphin' or any of that. We all know those animals use sonar and we don't care.
If the only thing you know about blind people is that you saw the Ray Charles movie when you were a kid and you feel vaguely inspired or whatever, maybe you should either do a bit more research or leave us alone.
I know this is just one guy's opinion, so, thoughts? How do the rest of you guys feel about this?
mathologies 32 points 3y ago
i joined because my partner is visually impaired and sometimes legally blind and even i get frustrated at all of the posts where some random kid is asking the same questions that've been asked a million times, expecting to get free labor from people on this subreddit as though your time or experiences are worth nothing.
Emms246 4 points 3y ago
I know this is unrelated but what does sometimes legally blind mean? I mean no disrespect I'm genuinely curious.
mathologies 2 points 3y ago
A visual acuity of 20/200 or less in the better-seeing eye with best conventional correction (meaning with regular glasses or contact lenses) **OR** a visual field (the total area an individual can see without moving the eyes from side to side) of 20 degrees or less (also called tunnel vision) in the better-seeing eye.
from $1
\*EDIT\* i realize that i missed the 'sometimes' in the question; basically, situation is that vision gets worse, doctors correct, vision gets worse, etc.
from $1
\*EDIT\* i realize that i missed the 'sometimes' in the question; basically, situation is that vision gets worse, doctors correct, vision gets worse, etc.
Emms246 1 points 3y ago
Thanks! And yeah I know but I didn't know how to phrase being sometimes legally blind. Thanks tho
mathologies 1 points 3y ago
OH SORRY. I misread your question. 'Sometimes' because stuff like retinal detachment or cataracts or macular adema can be addressed with drugs and/or surgery.
codeplaysleep 19 points 3y ago
I completely agree. I'm not here to be somebody's research project. I'm here to talk to other blind people about our shared experiences/thoughts/struggles.
Drunken_Idaho [OP] 6 points 3y ago
Its a hard thing because I don't want to say that nobody but who I think should be here is welcome, just tired of the condescending attitudes. The one about the better mug really got me. Like what? You think I need a better drinking glass after all this time? Meh.
codeplaysleep 7 points 3y ago
Yeah - maybe they just need to be more moderated, or combined into one weekly megathread that people can read or not.
Drunken_Idaho [OP] 7 points 3y ago
Thats a really good idea. The mods could sticky it at the top right up there with How do blind people use reddit? Have a weekly assistance and projects megathread. I love it!
rao_1993 1 points 3y ago
Hi
I know what am asking is straight against the thread.
I just wanted to ask how accessible is Google maps and likes to visually impaired or blind. I was thinking about this problem if I can make it more accessible and if it is really needed. I communicated with someone who uses Guide Dog and they say it's like navigator and pilot relationship. The person needs to know where to go and dog makes sure they don't run into obstacles. The focal point is navigation to nearby places like groceries, neighborhood anything in 1-2 km range.
Not doing a college project.
I know what am asking is straight against the thread.
I just wanted to ask how accessible is Google maps and likes to visually impaired or blind. I was thinking about this problem if I can make it more accessible and if it is really needed. I communicated with someone who uses Guide Dog and they say it's like navigator and pilot relationship. The person needs to know where to go and dog makes sure they don't run into obstacles. The focal point is navigation to nearby places like groceries, neighborhood anything in 1-2 km range.
Not doing a college project.
RJHand 19 points 3y ago
I agree which is why I don't bother commenting on those.
Also this is more of a rant about assistive devices in general and not necessarily to do with your post in question, but you mentioned it kind of so figured I'd bring it up as well. But I think braille notes and those little vibrating directional mobility aids are a waste of money. I don't need a braille computer to do work and I certainly don't need a fucking vibrator to tell me where to go even if they did work correctly, which most of the time in my experience they didn't, at least not for as long as one would expect.
Sorry for the bs, this is just my opinion and I'm sure some folks out there have a use for all that. But I don't. I'm fine with my computer and phone. And my folding shew smacker. Lol. You know you all do it too with canes so don't even lie.
Also this is more of a rant about assistive devices in general and not necessarily to do with your post in question, but you mentioned it kind of so figured I'd bring it up as well. But I think braille notes and those little vibrating directional mobility aids are a waste of money. I don't need a braille computer to do work and I certainly don't need a fucking vibrator to tell me where to go even if they did work correctly, which most of the time in my experience they didn't, at least not for as long as one would expect.
Sorry for the bs, this is just my opinion and I'm sure some folks out there have a use for all that. But I don't. I'm fine with my computer and phone. And my folding shew smacker. Lol. You know you all do it too with canes so don't even lie.
codeplaysleep 21 points 3y ago
And while we're at it - stop trying to stick $800 worth of poorly conceived technology into our canes. "Oh, a device that has to be used a lot that goes through puddles and snow and whacks into things? Let's add some expensive, heavy electronics that won't work as promised. It'll be great!"
RJHand 13 points 3y ago
Yeah lets make it talk and know where we are and dispense coffee and crackers and other crap. Isn't that great? Use it once and you'll be annoyed the next time! No refunds though, were badly at risk of going under. So enjoy your overpriced not needed waste of time fantasy bullshit, you'll learn to love it! Oh and half the features don't actually work. And the ones that do will shortly break down as you traverse more and more wet sidewalks. Enjoy!
I'll stick with my glow in the dark stick thanks.!!
I'll stick with my glow in the dark stick thanks.!!
Drunken_Idaho [OP] 10 points 3y ago
No no, you got it all wrong. The features don't work... yet! They'll be pushed out in a future software update /s.
RJHand 4 points 3y ago
Oh yeah, where you have to pay as much or more as the initial price you paid to buy it in the first place. Because thats how these things roll.
IronDominion 11 points 3y ago
You’d be surprised the amount of people who cannot type without a Braille display.
RJHand 10 points 3y ago
What? Like not only prefer it but need it?
And I thought the number of people who refused braille entirely was surprising lol.
And I thought the number of people who refused braille entirely was surprising lol.
IronDominion 15 points 3y ago
Yeah. A lot of times these people grew up using Braille their whole lives. Braille typewriters, Braille flashcards for school, it became a second language to them. So teaching them to touch type from a Braille typewriter is a nightmare, because they’re not used to having to remember where keys are. BrailleNotes and similar displays bridge this gap between the paper Braille world and the digital world.
Drunken_Idaho [OP] 13 points 3y ago
I use braille. In fact I'm typing this comment on my phone with braille screen input. But, it seems like a huge disservice to people if their educators are teaching them braille at the expense of using a keyboard. Tech should be as main stream as possible in my experience.
I don't think there is anything an impractical braille gadget can do that a laptop, ipad, or smart phone can't do way better and cheaper.
I don't think there is anything an impractical braille gadget can do that a laptop, ipad, or smart phone can't do way better and cheaper.
saharacanuck 15 points 3y ago
For me, and I speak as a high partial, I just want all the regular things that are made to be made with accessibility in mind from the start and not as an afterthought.
takishan 12 points 3y ago
For what it's worth, I have had zero experience with blind people and a couple weeks ago I watched a few videos by blind youtuber, Tommy Edison and watched a talk by a blind programmer that worked for Microsoft. It kind of opened my eyes (pun intended) to the reality that a lot of you guys face. Before this, I didn't even know blind people could use a computer. I know, I was really ignorant.
Regardless, this is why I vow that any website I ever develop will have accessibility built in from the start. I know it's only a small gesture but if I can do my part in my field of work to make someone's day easier then it would be worth it.
Also, I apologize if I am intruding on your guys's space. I try not to comment unless I have something to say.
Regardless, this is why I vow that any website I ever develop will have accessibility built in from the start. I know it's only a small gesture but if I can do my part in my field of work to make someone's day easier then it would be worth it.
Also, I apologize if I am intruding on your guys's space. I try not to comment unless I have something to say.
DrillInstructorJan 11 points 3y ago
The problem is that the easiest way to make a website accessible is to write it using only html tags that existed in about 1993 which isn't really going to make anyone rich as a web designer.
Tommy is only one side of it, as well. There's a bunch of people who had decent sight for ages and then lost it which is a whole other ball game. I basically have the body language of a sighted person which is great until people go "what, seriously? Like totally blind?"
Yes. Yes, I am. Shockingly normal, aren't I. What d'you mean depends what you mean by normal!
Tommy is only one side of it, as well. There's a bunch of people who had decent sight for ages and then lost it which is a whole other ball game. I basically have the body language of a sighted person which is great until people go "what, seriously? Like totally blind?"
Yes. Yes, I am. Shockingly normal, aren't I. What d'you mean depends what you mean by normal!
CloudyBeep 3 points 3y ago
No, this is very much incorrect.
ARIA can make even the most complex websites accessible. I don't know of a single accessible website that has had to sacrifice aesthetics for accessibility.
ARIA can make even the most complex websites accessible. I don't know of a single accessible website that has had to sacrifice aesthetics for accessibility.
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 3y ago
Through all of the 2000s there was a huge debate going on about this and people would constantly post up examples of super accessible websites they thought looked great, and everyone else would laugh at them because the design looked ten years out of date.
Like I say, primitive sites are just the easiest way to accessible sites. I'm sure it's possible to do both, but trying to make out it's easy just encourages people not to put any resources towards it, whereas in reality it takes quite a bit of extra work. Personally I want that work done so please stop telling people it's no biggie.
Like I say, primitive sites are just the easiest way to accessible sites. I'm sure it's possible to do both, but trying to make out it's easy just encourages people not to put any resources towards it, whereas in reality it takes quite a bit of extra work. Personally I want that work done so please stop telling people it's no biggie.
nkdeck07 1 points 3y ago
Generally speaking my consultancy found that is was between 5-10% more work to get a green field site to be accessible, especially if the client wasn't being a complete jackass and insisting on a really stupid color scheme (and honestly that generally just broke color blindness which still sucks but is a lot easier to work around). Additionally we were building them with modern design/UX patterns and it was pretty rare anything suffered for them.
Trying to retro fit on the other hand was a nightmare and depending on how poorly constructed the original code base was could add 50% to the total project cost.
Trying to retro fit on the other hand was a nightmare and depending on how poorly constructed the original code base was could add 50% to the total project cost.
CloudyBeep 1 points 3y ago
But then you have people saying that they won't make their sites accessible because they'll lose customers because the site won't look nice. All airlines that have flights to, from or in the US have to have accessible websites, and they still look really nice.
And let's not get into how websites that just contain text can be inaccessible to people with certain other kinds of disabilities
And let's not get into how websites that just contain text can be inaccessible to people with certain other kinds of disabilities
takishan 3 points 3y ago
I think things like mapping the tab key order with common sense or making sure all pictures are labeled or having sensible headers to make sure screen readers can navigate better. You won't be able to make a website a straight text file like in the 90s but I think you can at least make it easier.
Also, in that talk by the Microsoft programmer, he showed examples of how minor accessibility changes (namely some shortcuts) in Visual Studio allowed him to code just as well as anybody else. Honestly they're not even big changes, you just need to put some thought into accessibility. Something I had never even considered before.
As for Tommy, yeah I was introduced to blind youtubers through him but I have watched quite a few of them at this point. It fascinates me how they navigate the world without vision. I've seen how people use guide dogs, canes, some like Daniel Kish use echolocation. It surprises me how normal they seem. Like you said, "shockingly normal". I guess I've just never known any blind people so my expectations were different.
Also, in that talk by the Microsoft programmer, he showed examples of how minor accessibility changes (namely some shortcuts) in Visual Studio allowed him to code just as well as anybody else. Honestly they're not even big changes, you just need to put some thought into accessibility. Something I had never even considered before.
As for Tommy, yeah I was introduced to blind youtubers through him but I have watched quite a few of them at this point. It fascinates me how they navigate the world without vision. I've seen how people use guide dogs, canes, some like Daniel Kish use echolocation. It surprises me how normal they seem. Like you said, "shockingly normal". I guess I've just never known any blind people so my expectations were different.
CloudyBeep 5 points 3y ago
Be careful with changing the tab order, because this can sometimes unintentionally make websites less accessible.
Rethunker 2 points 3y ago
>I've seen how people use guide dogs, canes, some like Daniel Kish use echolocation. It surprises me how normal they seem. Like you said, "shockingly normal". I guess I've just never known any blind people so my expectations were different.
If you want to read more about the different techniques, and the relative frequency with which they are used, check out the statistics.
Cane use isn't as common as sighted people expect among the legally blind (itself a definition worth looking into). What few studies there are suggest that perhaps 10% or 11% of legally blind people use the white cane. (There are other canes, too.) Statistics are harder to find for guide dogs, but it's estimate that about 2% of legally blind people use guide dogs.
$1
You may have walked right past a number of people who are legally blind, but you didn't know it because they don't use a white cane or a guide dog.
As you've probably read, the causes and types of blindness vary, too. Someone can have patchy vision, highly blurred vision, light perception only, tunnel vision, peripheral vision only, vision that changes through the day for complicated reasons, and so on. Check out cortical visual impairment (CVI).
The totally blind make up a minority of the legally blind. Seniors make up more than half of the legally blind, many having lost sight in adulthood, meaning they won't have grown up learning orientation & mobility skills at a young age.
Those who have "low vision" are considered visually impaired, but not legally blind. They encounter similar problems with discrimination, lack of accessibility, etc., and by most statistics I know about those with low vision are roughly double the number of the legally blind (depending, as always, on legal definitions). With somewhat less impaired version there is a very large group of people who don't technically qualify as having low vision, and hence may not be available for services in some countries, but who report significant problems with accessibility and discrimination in the workplace.
If you're interested in accessibility, connect with professionals on LinkedIn. You'll find lots of people who could give good advice beyond what you find on websites and in videos.
If you want to read more about the different techniques, and the relative frequency with which they are used, check out the statistics.
Cane use isn't as common as sighted people expect among the legally blind (itself a definition worth looking into). What few studies there are suggest that perhaps 10% or 11% of legally blind people use the white cane. (There are other canes, too.) Statistics are harder to find for guide dogs, but it's estimate that about 2% of legally blind people use guide dogs.
$1
You may have walked right past a number of people who are legally blind, but you didn't know it because they don't use a white cane or a guide dog.
As you've probably read, the causes and types of blindness vary, too. Someone can have patchy vision, highly blurred vision, light perception only, tunnel vision, peripheral vision only, vision that changes through the day for complicated reasons, and so on. Check out cortical visual impairment (CVI).
The totally blind make up a minority of the legally blind. Seniors make up more than half of the legally blind, many having lost sight in adulthood, meaning they won't have grown up learning orientation & mobility skills at a young age.
Those who have "low vision" are considered visually impaired, but not legally blind. They encounter similar problems with discrimination, lack of accessibility, etc., and by most statistics I know about those with low vision are roughly double the number of the legally blind (depending, as always, on legal definitions). With somewhat less impaired version there is a very large group of people who don't technically qualify as having low vision, and hence may not be available for services in some countries, but who report significant problems with accessibility and discrimination in the workplace.
If you're interested in accessibility, connect with professionals on LinkedIn. You'll find lots of people who could give good advice beyond what you find on websites and in videos.
bradley22 1 points 3y ago
Actually you can use HTML5 and have a very screen reader friendly website.
Also HTML5 has aria which if used correctly can make the web even more accessible.
Also HTML5 has aria which if used correctly can make the web even more accessible.
Laser_Lens_4 5 points 3y ago
First off, you are absolutely not intruding on our space. I can't speak for others, but I see this sub as providing a space for anyone with a vision impairment, and also serving as an awareness resource for sighted folk who might stumble upon it.
​
Awareness is precisely what we need to make the web and the world more accessible. I'm happy that you've picked up on the stuff we do. The fact of the matter is that we are just as capable as someone with sight. We just do things differently. It's nearly impossible for humans to wrap their mind around alternative approaches and thought processes. We're all a bit different, but most of us have access to the same senses and limbs. How would someone even use a computer without sight or without fine motor control? It's hard to understand until you experience it for yourself or through the experiences of another. It's that lack of alternative experiences that makes it harder on minorities to flourish and live a life as fulfilling as others. Developers don't make their websites and apps inaccessible out of malice (at least, I hope not). They do it because they don't even realize there are entire groups of people who experience the world with a different set of senses and abilities. The world would be a better place if we all made more of an effort to understand our fellow humans.
​
Thanks for coming here. Thanks for learning. We need more people like you who take the time to be more ware. Tommy's great, and he's just one person. There are so many other ways to understand blindness, but he's a good start.
​
Awareness is precisely what we need to make the web and the world more accessible. I'm happy that you've picked up on the stuff we do. The fact of the matter is that we are just as capable as someone with sight. We just do things differently. It's nearly impossible for humans to wrap their mind around alternative approaches and thought processes. We're all a bit different, but most of us have access to the same senses and limbs. How would someone even use a computer without sight or without fine motor control? It's hard to understand until you experience it for yourself or through the experiences of another. It's that lack of alternative experiences that makes it harder on minorities to flourish and live a life as fulfilling as others. Developers don't make their websites and apps inaccessible out of malice (at least, I hope not). They do it because they don't even realize there are entire groups of people who experience the world with a different set of senses and abilities. The world would be a better place if we all made more of an effort to understand our fellow humans.
​
Thanks for coming here. Thanks for learning. We need more people like you who take the time to be more ware. Tommy's great, and he's just one person. There are so many other ways to understand blindness, but he's a good start.
tahtihaka 11 points 3y ago
Valid point. I cannot emphasize enough how much so. However, I'd like to extend the rant to include all assistance. People are sometimes so eagar to "help" so as to provide it WITHOUT ASKING. In school, I was assigned a person to assist me without consulting with me. I was given special treatment so I didn't need to change classrooms as often.
Shit like that, shit I didn't need! I needed to learn, from the start, to be indepenedent and that it would require more effort than it would from my peers. But I could do it, if I gave everything and played by my strengths. But no, so much help that I was lucky if the food wasn't chewed for me. That's like saying you don't amount to much so we'll help. Fuck that. I eventually did give everything and it paid off, tenfold.
So it was rant I was extending, wasn't it? Eh.. Maybe I should see a therapist. Or maybe not, I have you!
Shit like that, shit I didn't need! I needed to learn, from the start, to be indepenedent and that it would require more effort than it would from my peers. But I could do it, if I gave everything and played by my strengths. But no, so much help that I was lucky if the food wasn't chewed for me. That's like saying you don't amount to much so we'll help. Fuck that. I eventually did give everything and it paid off, tenfold.
So it was rant I was extending, wasn't it? Eh.. Maybe I should see a therapist. Or maybe not, I have you!
Carnegie89 10 points 3y ago
I understand your perspective. Sometimes a good idea comes from all the shitty ones.
napoleon88 8 points 3y ago
my suggestion around this would be that projects need to have secured a first round of funding, or have some other credentials that mean that they will have already gone through a certain level of scrutiny. I think there is room for a bright entrepreneur with an idea, but that needs to be correctly counterbalanced against the vast, vast desert of bad ideas.
Rethunker 2 points 3y ago
I'd be happy to be subject to such scrutiny because it means having to defend product design choices that may or may not work for everyone. I support requiring sighted people and/or assistive tech companies to meet certain criteria before posting in this group, even if it meant I'd have to convince someone to let me back in.
My assistive tech company is new, and though I have a lot of good contacts I can't visit them in person these days. I'm a member of a local tech group for the blind and visually impaired, I have team members who are experts in assistive tech, education, navigation, and accessibility, and I have patents in relevant technology. I'm not trying to come up with a comprehensive list, but something there could be relevant.
That said, my contacts tend to be older, and less likely to be on Reddit.
I would say securing a first round of funding may be setting too high a bar, though I like the idea. A first round could be an investment from angel investors. But what if a company is sufficiently self-funded or bootstrapped?
Sites that host academic papers set a standard: you have to prove you have published work and/or have a patent and/or satisfy other criteria.
My assistive tech company is new, and though I have a lot of good contacts I can't visit them in person these days. I'm a member of a local tech group for the blind and visually impaired, I have team members who are experts in assistive tech, education, navigation, and accessibility, and I have patents in relevant technology. I'm not trying to come up with a comprehensive list, but something there could be relevant.
That said, my contacts tend to be older, and less likely to be on Reddit.
I would say securing a first round of funding may be setting too high a bar, though I like the idea. A first round could be an investment from angel investors. But what if a company is sufficiently self-funded or bootstrapped?
Sites that host academic papers set a standard: you have to prove you have published work and/or have a patent and/or satisfy other criteria.
napoleon88 2 points 3y ago
good points made here thanks
rp-turtle 7 points 3y ago
Preach!! I have found a lot of those posts to be quite annoying too. I try to help when possible but I do wish they would do some research before posting. Personally, I use voiceover, jaws, tape to label a the microwave and stove, and a guide dog. I have no use for any other adaptive anything so none of the products or ideas they post on here appeal to me at all. I am sure plenty of other people use other adaptive stuff but I don’t think the random stuff we have been seeing posted on here lately would be much use to most people. Who knows, maybe someone will come up with something crazy and cool.
When I present on blindness, I always say, unfortunately, blindness isn’t as big a deal as you think. I say that to a room of sighted people because they usually assume blindness to mean you have a dramatically different experience. Like you’re unable to go up and down stairs, struggle to dress yourself, and otherwise need constant care like a pet. From my experience, in most cases, that’s not true. Blindness is serious and real but it’s no where near as debilitating as people assume. Thanks for the ranting post.
When I present on blindness, I always say, unfortunately, blindness isn’t as big a deal as you think. I say that to a room of sighted people because they usually assume blindness to mean you have a dramatically different experience. Like you’re unable to go up and down stairs, struggle to dress yourself, and otherwise need constant care like a pet. From my experience, in most cases, that’s not true. Blindness is serious and real but it’s no where near as debilitating as people assume. Thanks for the ranting post.
bradley22 6 points 3y ago
They don’t bother me. I just skip them if I don’t feel like answering.
I do wish they’d do a bit of research though.
I do wish they’d do a bit of research though.
thatblindgirl 5 points 3y ago
They all say the surveys are going to take five minutes, but it would take us a lot longer. Also, there is only one use for a vibrator and I think we all know what that is!
Rethunker 2 points 3y ago
>They all say the surveys are going to take five minutes, but it would take us a lot longer. Also, there is only one use for a vibrator and I think we all know what that is!
Sore back muscles are a real problem.
Speaking for ignorant sighted kind, I can say that lots of researchers, engineers, and marketers reflexively write that a survey will take "5 to 10" minutes because that's what most surveys claim regardless of the subject, or the intended audience, or even the number of questions. It's what everyone writes for any survey longer than one question.
It's easy enough to measure the difference in average survey taking time for sighted, low vision, blind, and DeafBlind people. Survey software calculates that for the survey creators. So saying a survey will take "5 to 10 minutes" means that not only did they not think about the survey takers, but they probably didn't even do a test run and use the built-in clock of their survey software. They may not have even tried the test themselves.
My most recent 8-question survey takes 7 minutes 21 seconds on average for blind survey takers, which is within the predicted range of 6 to 9 minutes. And the survey invite tells people in advance it will take 6 to 9 minutes. Tada.
Encouraging someone to actually take a survey? Wow, I'm still making lots of mistakes when I do that, but there's help online for people like me.
Sore back muscles are a real problem.
Speaking for ignorant sighted kind, I can say that lots of researchers, engineers, and marketers reflexively write that a survey will take "5 to 10" minutes because that's what most surveys claim regardless of the subject, or the intended audience, or even the number of questions. It's what everyone writes for any survey longer than one question.
It's easy enough to measure the difference in average survey taking time for sighted, low vision, blind, and DeafBlind people. Survey software calculates that for the survey creators. So saying a survey will take "5 to 10 minutes" means that not only did they not think about the survey takers, but they probably didn't even do a test run and use the built-in clock of their survey software. They may not have even tried the test themselves.
My most recent 8-question survey takes 7 minutes 21 seconds on average for blind survey takers, which is within the predicted range of 6 to 9 minutes. And the survey invite tells people in advance it will take 6 to 9 minutes. Tada.
Encouraging someone to actually take a survey? Wow, I'm still making lots of mistakes when I do that, but there's help online for people like me.
BraveRock 4 points 3y ago
I remember a post years ago where the OP shared similar frustrations with gizmos that don’t really help. They said what the really want is a way to carry soup while using a cane.
I never thought about it, but of course carrying soup would be problematic. I’m in this subreddit because I realized that making things more accessible in a meaningful way generally improves life for everybody.
I never thought about it, but of course carrying soup would be problematic. I’m in this subreddit because I realized that making things more accessible in a meaningful way generally improves life for everybody.
MaplePaws 3 points 3y ago
Visiting as this was in my suggested box or whatever Reddit calls it, and I must say that I get annoyed with all of the posts from students in the general disability subs trying to use us a subject for their project. Beyond actually dark sunglasses (that also look nice) there is really nothing that I think could be made that would make my life more accessible than my dog does for me.
emmarwilk 3 points 3y ago
I'm a photography student in the very early stages of retinitis pigmentosa who did recently do a project on seeing with my specific condition, the thought did cross my mind to post in here regarding it (or the retinitis pigmentosa specific subreddit) but felt it was wrong for me to do so, I don't get how others feel it's alright to do.
Rethunker 2 points 3y ago
In an effort to relieve some of the pain, I've written a proposal for text for sighted visitors to r/Blind. I'm sighted, and I've made my share of mistakes in the past when asking for information.
Here's a link to the post, which I'd be happy to edit further:
$1
Here's a link to the post, which I'd be happy to edit further:
$1
Rethunker 2 points 3y ago
One idea is to direct students to me, and I'll answer some of their questions. I've started to do that a bit, and maybe I can write up a general post that would help cut down on the number of dumb questions.
As a sighted engineer and researcher working in assistive technology, I can suggest what to read, where to find information, how to find local community centers, and above all to do these things without being too annoying. I've made my share of mistakes, so I can help others to avoid those mistakes. I go through the same steps when I talk to other sighted people, so it's not new.
Virtually all sighted engineers are going to make the same wrong guesses. Some never get over them. Sighted bias in design is obvious even to me as a sighted engineer. And as someone who has hired and mentored young engineers, I can address a few problems common not just to assistive technology, but to project work in general:
1. Do your reading first. Read actual books; don't just google random stuff.
2. Listen a lot.
3. Even after you've spent months reading, choose a problem to solve that people have told you in person that they want to have solved.
4. Write up specifications. Always. If you can't write a specification document, you have an idea, not a problem to solve.
5. Assume you'll still make a lot of mistakes. Get over those. Apologize if necessary. Learn and move on.
6. If people aren't excited about what you're working on, you've either done a poor job explaining it, or it's the wrong thing to work on. Don't think you know better than your user/customer what they actually want.
7. etc.
As far as having a company or product with the name "bat" in it, I'm guilty as charged, though my company name was chosen for somewhat unrelated reasons. I couldn't stomach the idea of yet another company name that includes "vision" or "light." Another team member and I love bats for reasons unrelated to assistive tech, so the name sticks, and I'll go to the mat on that.
As a sighted engineer and researcher working in assistive technology, I can suggest what to read, where to find information, how to find local community centers, and above all to do these things without being too annoying. I've made my share of mistakes, so I can help others to avoid those mistakes. I go through the same steps when I talk to other sighted people, so it's not new.
Virtually all sighted engineers are going to make the same wrong guesses. Some never get over them. Sighted bias in design is obvious even to me as a sighted engineer. And as someone who has hired and mentored young engineers, I can address a few problems common not just to assistive technology, but to project work in general:
1. Do your reading first. Read actual books; don't just google random stuff.
2. Listen a lot.
3. Even after you've spent months reading, choose a problem to solve that people have told you in person that they want to have solved.
4. Write up specifications. Always. If you can't write a specification document, you have an idea, not a problem to solve.
5. Assume you'll still make a lot of mistakes. Get over those. Apologize if necessary. Learn and move on.
6. If people aren't excited about what you're working on, you've either done a poor job explaining it, or it's the wrong thing to work on. Don't think you know better than your user/customer what they actually want.
7. etc.
As far as having a company or product with the name "bat" in it, I'm guilty as charged, though my company name was chosen for somewhat unrelated reasons. I couldn't stomach the idea of yet another company name that includes "vision" or "light." Another team member and I love bats for reasons unrelated to assistive tech, so the name sticks, and I'll go to the mat on that.
rao_1993 1 points 3y ago
Hi
I am still going other comments on this thread and agree with frustration of visually impaired but in order to help someone you really need to understand where you can improve the current system. I suffer from colour blindness and understand very well that normal sighted people don't understand my position. I would like to know how difficult is it to navigate in world using Google maps for visually impaired using canes or guide dogs and no I will not make a sonar based system . I completed my undergrad 4years back so it is not a project for grades.
My background is in audio DSP and I currently work a South Korean giant but would like to keep it away from patent
Now what I have gathered from watching YouTube videos of jay Ross is that blind already need to know where they want to go and how and dog is the one that gets it done. Like a navigator and pilot relationship. I would like to augment current GPS based system like Google maps with out need for extra hardware but just a phone.
Sorry for necro posting
I am still going other comments on this thread and agree with frustration of visually impaired but in order to help someone you really need to understand where you can improve the current system. I suffer from colour blindness and understand very well that normal sighted people don't understand my position. I would like to know how difficult is it to navigate in world using Google maps for visually impaired using canes or guide dogs and no I will not make a sonar based system . I completed my undergrad 4years back so it is not a project for grades.
My background is in audio DSP and I currently work a South Korean giant but would like to keep it away from patent
Now what I have gathered from watching YouTube videos of jay Ross is that blind already need to know where they want to go and how and dog is the one that gets it done. Like a navigator and pilot relationship. I would like to augment current GPS based system like Google maps with out need for extra hardware but just a phone.
Sorry for necro posting
Rethunker 1 points 3y ago
Hi, u/rao_1993, I don't think you're necro posting. Posts with silly questions pop up in r/Blind again and again, so your comment is likely to be eternally fresh.
I could point you to some useful resources about navigation if you'd like to send me a private message. Navigation involves a lot, but your experience in audio engineering could certainly come in handy. Reading a few of the better books and academic papers could bootstrap you into a better position to start work.
I could point you to some useful resources about navigation if you'd like to send me a private message. Navigation involves a lot, but your experience in audio engineering could certainly come in handy. Reading a few of the better books and academic papers could bootstrap you into a better position to start work.
Emms246 2 points 3y ago
Yeah I just ignore those posts. Mainly because I'm visually impaired and not completely blind so I don't even know if I'm qualified to comment. The thing is, I feel like most people here are visually impaired and not blind, another reason why these kinds of posts are ignored by a lot of the community.( I don't have the stats on that, I'm just taking off of what I've seen whilst being here).
BenandGracie 2 points 3y ago
I agree. I can't figure out why all these college kids decide to make some fantcy thing to help the blind. I do try to give them some advice when I can, but it seems like we have had more posts lately, and I am tired of helping.
[deleted] 1 points 3y ago
[deleted]
devinprater 1 points 3y ago
I think that these people should have to ask moderators before they post these insensitive, repetitive questions. I mean, these kids don't even consider that helping us would be even more easy, but maybe a tad bit harder in another sense.
They could help by improving Linux accessibility. That way, we aren't beholden to Apple or Microsoft, who talk more than they do for us. They could contribute to NVDA, or even make retro games accessible through Retroarch and Ztranslate scripting.
But oh no its far easier to just come on here and ask questions that they've idolly wondered about than to actually do something.
Take note, folks. That's what University prepares you for.
They could help by improving Linux accessibility. That way, we aren't beholden to Apple or Microsoft, who talk more than they do for us. They could contribute to NVDA, or even make retro games accessible through Retroarch and Ztranslate scripting.
But oh no its far easier to just come on here and ask questions that they've idolly wondered about than to actually do something.
Take note, folks. That's what University prepares you for.
achromatic_03 1 points 3y ago
This is tough because I get both sides....it's funny, but I don't think most of them understand how difficult and complex their questions and requests are sometimes.
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