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Feedback for a new idea to help blind and visually impaired before committing to it: (self.Blind)
submitted by HexadecimalHero
I am a 14-year-old, and currently, I am looking at committing my time to program technology that will impact and improve the quality of life for the blind and visually impaired, after having previously come up with an idea, but now understood its irrelevance.
And so, after having read and watched numerous videos and articles, I have decided to focus upon creating something that will make certain features in daily life more accessible to the blind.
Subsequently, I noticed the problem of reading but mainly reading where the person does not know they need to read, which is described online as impossible. To elaborate further, an example could be a sign on a road, which a blind person cannot see, thus meaning they cannot read the information. Hence, I came up with the idea for a pair of glasses, which can read and detect that the sign is there and convert its text into audio, to convey to the user. Conceptually, I have not developed the idea massively, as first I would like to see whether it is a viable and relevant idea that would genuinely help, before fully committing to it, although, I imagine I will program an app to accompany it, to make it even more accessible, personalised and involve the user more.
Therefore, I have a few questions:
Would this idea genuinely help and improve the quality of life for the blind or is there a known way to achieve this, that is not mentioned online?
If so, then what features would make it very useful.
If not, then what technology would help impact your day to day life?
Thank you for reading and any feedback would be much appreciated! :)
And so, after having read and watched numerous videos and articles, I have decided to focus upon creating something that will make certain features in daily life more accessible to the blind.
Subsequently, I noticed the problem of reading but mainly reading where the person does not know they need to read, which is described online as impossible. To elaborate further, an example could be a sign on a road, which a blind person cannot see, thus meaning they cannot read the information. Hence, I came up with the idea for a pair of glasses, which can read and detect that the sign is there and convert its text into audio, to convey to the user. Conceptually, I have not developed the idea massively, as first I would like to see whether it is a viable and relevant idea that would genuinely help, before fully committing to it, although, I imagine I will program an app to accompany it, to make it even more accessible, personalised and involve the user more.
Therefore, I have a few questions:
Would this idea genuinely help and improve the quality of life for the blind or is there a known way to achieve this, that is not mentioned online?
If so, then what features would make it very useful.
If not, then what technology would help impact your day to day life?
Thank you for reading and any feedback would be much appreciated! :)
ghetopenguin 5 points 3y ago
Someone was on here about a week ago hitching almost exactly what you have proposed. There are devices that can do this already somewhat. I think the Orkem device can do this in some capacity
Personally I have no want for something like this at all. I have some functional vision but not enough to navigate or read street signs. Microsoft soundscape uses open maps to give people an idea of what street they're on and turnings etc.
I don't want to put a downer on your idea/ambitions. Having people interested and wanting to help is amazing and I really appreciate it. But in my opinion, I am happy with my iPhone and Soundscape and my white cane.
Have a dig through the past of this sub Reddit and have a look at other similar projects. There are also some threads about posting here about projects to help visually impaired/blind people. And how the community feels about them and how the community feels about how people should go about them.
All the best
https://reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/hdkmo9/proposal_readme_for_sighted_visitors_thinking/
This isn't exactly what you proposed. But I think your find the comments useful
https://reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/hccu8k/engineering_project_wearable_device_to_detect/
Personally I have no want for something like this at all. I have some functional vision but not enough to navigate or read street signs. Microsoft soundscape uses open maps to give people an idea of what street they're on and turnings etc.
I don't want to put a downer on your idea/ambitions. Having people interested and wanting to help is amazing and I really appreciate it. But in my opinion, I am happy with my iPhone and Soundscape and my white cane.
Have a dig through the past of this sub Reddit and have a look at other similar projects. There are also some threads about posting here about projects to help visually impaired/blind people. And how the community feels about them and how the community feels about how people should go about them.
All the best
https://reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/hdkmo9/proposal_readme_for_sighted_visitors_thinking/
This isn't exactly what you proposed. But I think your find the comments useful
https://reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/hccu8k/engineering_project_wearable_device_to_detect/
HexadecimalHero [OP] 2 points 3y ago
Thank you for the response, I understand and I will look through previous posts on the subreddit, as I definitely think this will help a lot. But by any chance, do you have any concepts for technology that can help improve your quality of life?
ghetopenguin 5 points 3y ago
Games!
That's the only thing I found myself wanting in the past three months. It is more accessible games!
in all seriousness though. If you want to increase quality of life I think most people would rather have more accessible games than headgear that read street signs or a cane with a computer strapped to it
That's the only thing I found myself wanting in the past three months. It is more accessible games!
in all seriousness though. If you want to increase quality of life I think most people would rather have more accessible games than headgear that read street signs or a cane with a computer strapped to it
Rethunker 2 points 3y ago
u/HexadecimalHero: going into games could be great for you in many ways:
* You can do it on your own
* There aren't as many accessible games for consoles or mobile devices as there should be
* You don't have to build, deliver, or support hardware
* You don't need a decade or more experience in engineering to get serious about it.
As someone who has worked in image processing for decades, including applications of optical character recognition (OCR), I'll say this is MUCH harder than it will seem at first. Try some OCR apps for your phone and see how they perform under changes of lighting, at different camera angles, reading signs instead of text in books, with the text partially covered, etc. Focus especially on the failures, not the successes--how much/little does it take for the algorithm to yield the wrong text? Or to read nothing at all?
For engineering--even for tinkering and inventing--you need to write specs for yourself. Under what circumstances will your thing work? How well? What is an example of it not working well?
For OCR: what is the typical read rate achieved under the circumstances you mention? How do you know? And is that read rate good enough? How do you know?
"... after having read and watched numerous videos and articles ..."
You will need to work your way through at least one textbook on image processing. The mishmash of opinions, presentations, lessons, pointers, etc., that one finds online still doesn't compare well to working methodically through a good book, likely an introductory textbook for engineering undergraduates.
Digital Image Processing by Gonzalez and Woods is a good textbook.
$1
Machine learning is certainly NOT enough to solve this problem. If you know Python you can get a lot done, but you'll want to learn C++, the language that has dominated image processing for decades.
"Subsequently, I noticed the problem of reading but mainly reading where the person does not know they need to read, which is described online as impossible."
It's not quite clear what you mean here, but take opinions you find online--including mine--with a grain of salt. Saying X is impossible without providing good specs for **exactly** what X is, is basically saying nothing. It's easy to grab some sample code, run a few quick tests under nice conditions, and then claim to "know" about the application for which the code was intended, but I can tell you from interviewing quite a few engineers that this approach doesn't hold water.
All that said, mixing image processing + games could be wonderful. You could also start with a much simpler image processing problem: track something in the game player's hand, and use that as a means of interacting with the game. Even a "simple" problem like tracking an object of known color and size gets tricky.
Good luck!
* You can do it on your own
* There aren't as many accessible games for consoles or mobile devices as there should be
* You don't have to build, deliver, or support hardware
* You don't need a decade or more experience in engineering to get serious about it.
As someone who has worked in image processing for decades, including applications of optical character recognition (OCR), I'll say this is MUCH harder than it will seem at first. Try some OCR apps for your phone and see how they perform under changes of lighting, at different camera angles, reading signs instead of text in books, with the text partially covered, etc. Focus especially on the failures, not the successes--how much/little does it take for the algorithm to yield the wrong text? Or to read nothing at all?
For engineering--even for tinkering and inventing--you need to write specs for yourself. Under what circumstances will your thing work? How well? What is an example of it not working well?
For OCR: what is the typical read rate achieved under the circumstances you mention? How do you know? And is that read rate good enough? How do you know?
"... after having read and watched numerous videos and articles ..."
You will need to work your way through at least one textbook on image processing. The mishmash of opinions, presentations, lessons, pointers, etc., that one finds online still doesn't compare well to working methodically through a good book, likely an introductory textbook for engineering undergraduates.
Digital Image Processing by Gonzalez and Woods is a good textbook.
$1
Machine learning is certainly NOT enough to solve this problem. If you know Python you can get a lot done, but you'll want to learn C++, the language that has dominated image processing for decades.
"Subsequently, I noticed the problem of reading but mainly reading where the person does not know they need to read, which is described online as impossible."
It's not quite clear what you mean here, but take opinions you find online--including mine--with a grain of salt. Saying X is impossible without providing good specs for **exactly** what X is, is basically saying nothing. It's easy to grab some sample code, run a few quick tests under nice conditions, and then claim to "know" about the application for which the code was intended, but I can tell you from interviewing quite a few engineers that this approach doesn't hold water.
All that said, mixing image processing + games could be wonderful. You could also start with a much simpler image processing problem: track something in the game player's hand, and use that as a means of interacting with the game. Even a "simple" problem like tracking an object of known color and size gets tricky.
Good luck!
HexadecimalHero [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Yh thank you very much for this detailed comment and sorry for any ambiguity in my text written in my original post, and what I originally meant was that I am looking to focus on an innovation that can convert the text of a sign which you do not realise is there into audio, for example, a temporary sign that has been placed or in public transport sites. Hopefully, this clarifies things.
Moving on to your comments regarding creating more accessible games, I would love to create and achieve this, through integrating the use of image processing and OCR, but I do not know if I am able to achieve this as I have tinkered with the concept of image processing but found it far too difficult at the time to integrate (when I was working upon a different idea to help the blind). And so, do not know if I would be able to achieve this, do you know of a more interactive method of learning image processing outside of a textbook, to make it easier to learn? Thank you very much though for your reply!
Moving on to your comments regarding creating more accessible games, I would love to create and achieve this, through integrating the use of image processing and OCR, but I do not know if I am able to achieve this as I have tinkered with the concept of image processing but found it far too difficult at the time to integrate (when I was working upon a different idea to help the blind). And so, do not know if I would be able to achieve this, do you know of a more interactive method of learning image processing outside of a textbook, to make it easier to learn? Thank you very much though for your reply!
Superfreq2 2 points 3y ago
"Navi lens " seems like the most promising concept right now in this area, but of course longterm durability of tags, and the risk of over reliance on an app created by a private company which like all others could stop being updated is a risk, especially if used for entire cities.
That said, it's allot better than nothing, and as long as the tags are kept up to date with the print signage, they seem like a promising start to something more integrated in the future.
@OP
I give you allot of credit for A. trying to find a way to use your talents by helping others B. asking before jumping straight in and C. writing with allot of eloquence while doing it.
But in most cases, including this one, what we need most are people who can improve existing technologies or concepts rather than inventing new ones. It's allot less sexy on the surface, but as they say "good ideas are a dime a dozen but people who can realize those ideas effectively are priceless".
So I would encourage you to stay in this field of study if it's something you find interesting, since you can still have a serious impact by introducing new or improved methods for achieving existing ideas, and the more you learn the more valuable those insights will be.
That said, it's allot better than nothing, and as long as the tags are kept up to date with the print signage, they seem like a promising start to something more integrated in the future.
@OP
I give you allot of credit for A. trying to find a way to use your talents by helping others B. asking before jumping straight in and C. writing with allot of eloquence while doing it.
But in most cases, including this one, what we need most are people who can improve existing technologies or concepts rather than inventing new ones. It's allot less sexy on the surface, but as they say "good ideas are a dime a dozen but people who can realize those ideas effectively are priceless".
So I would encourage you to stay in this field of study if it's something you find interesting, since you can still have a serious impact by introducing new or improved methods for achieving existing ideas, and the more you learn the more valuable those insights will be.
HexadecimalHero [OP] 1 points 3y ago
I entirely agree with your thoughts for Navi Lens, and so this really does emphasise the use and notion of my innovation, since the glasses I propose do not require the tag or any other form of a material object to identify, but rather identifies what is currently there, such as a sign that sighted people view from and converts it into audio. Thus meaning that it is applicable to all cities, signs and countries without any need to add things to the area first. And your final comments in the first paragraph entirely is my aim since I intend to develop and expand off of modern technologies and concepts that already exist by making them more accessible.
Furthermore, I would like to thank you for your kind words, although I simply am looking to make the world more sustainable through expanding from Bill Clinton's inspirational quote, *"We cannot build our own future without helping others to build theirs."*. And so, I am definitely looking to remain within this field of study and development of an idea to improve the quality of life for those who struggle on a day to day basis in some way. Thank you for the kind response!
Furthermore, I would like to thank you for your kind words, although I simply am looking to make the world more sustainable through expanding from Bill Clinton's inspirational quote, *"We cannot build our own future without helping others to build theirs."*. And so, I am definitely looking to remain within this field of study and development of an idea to improve the quality of life for those who struggle on a day to day basis in some way. Thank you for the kind response!
paneulo 2 points 3y ago
The ubiquitousness of smart phones makes this idea plawsable. If you have an IOS device, you should check out Seeing Eye, to see what tech has already been developed. If you figure out a way to improve it, or find a unique angle that you could develop, I'd say go for it. These apps tend to be quite popular if done well. If you are looking for an area that could really use some open source help, it would be developing software for people who can't speak. It's an interesting problem. What sort of an interface could be built to allow them to build sentences or phrases that they want to say very rapidly, so as to not take forever, and to be able to participate in the speaking world on a more equal basis? A lot of software is commercially available, but like most assistive tech, it's not all that cheap. As I understand it, they could really use some quality free software.
HexadecimalHero [OP] 2 points 3y ago
I have looked into Seeing Eye to some depth, and I believe that the major problem with it, is that the user must be aware of exactly what they are looking to read before using the app, whereas with the innovation I have proposed, it will simply read it for you, whether you are aware of its existence or not. Although, the app does recognise and achieve more.
And finding a unique angle and developing an existing innovation is currently my aim, by developing and expanding upon modern technologies but making them more accessible and useful. Finally, your last comments are very interesting, as developing technology for those who can not speak definitely would be interesting, and useful for them, so I may look into this as well. Thank you for your response!
And finding a unique angle and developing an existing innovation is currently my aim, by developing and expanding upon modern technologies but making them more accessible and useful. Finally, your last comments are very interesting, as developing technology for those who can not speak definitely would be interesting, and useful for them, so I may look into this as well. Thank you for your response!
achromatic_03 2 points 3y ago
I could see this being more useful in a situation like arriving at a store, where they've hung some homemade sign out front that you weren't expecting...like right now, with COVID19, I went into a grocery store and asked an employee if there are any rules or anything I need to know about because I can't read signs and posters they put up in small print. As with other ideas like this, my concerns are cost, battery life, weight, and accuracy. I don't think we're short on ideas and capability to make technologies, but we are short on funding, which affects all of those concerns.
HexadecimalHero [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Thank you so much for this comment, as this is exactly what I was trying to convey as the primary goal for the glasses to achieve: reading signs which you do not realise are there. However, do you believe that this is too niche of a part to develop within? And overall, to reply to some of your concerns, regarding the battery life, I would look to make it as convenient as possible for the blind, by involving them in the process of creating it, so what battery life would you think to be best for an innovation such as this? Furthermore, about weight, it will feel and weigh similarly to normal glasses and, finally, the accuracy of translating from text to audio will definitely not be a problem. Lastly, overall I am not too worried about funding the idea, just moreover concerned with formulating the idea first, and then will hope to receive funding if I can develop a robust and relevant idea to help the blind. Thank you for the response!
CloudyBeep 2 points 3y ago
What kind of signs? If I want to know where I am, I have several apps that can tell me what street I'm on and what buildings are around me. I can move my phone around to find out what streets and other attractions are nearby.
HexadecimalHero [OP] 2 points 3y ago
I intended for the innovation to help read signs which you do not know are there, so the glasses sense that there is a sign, and turns the text into audio, an example was provided as a comment which fits the idea perfectly:
*"arriving at a store, where they've hung some homemade sign out front that you weren't expecting...like right now, with COVID19, I went into a grocery store and asked an employee if there are any rules or anything I need to know about because I can't read signs and posters they put up in small print"*
This is exactly what type of signs and information I would look to make it more convenient to read, as well as information for public transport such as if a train or bus is delayed. Hopefully, this helps clarify that. And so, do you believe this would help or is it too niche of a sector to look into?
*"arriving at a store, where they've hung some homemade sign out front that you weren't expecting...like right now, with COVID19, I went into a grocery store and asked an employee if there are any rules or anything I need to know about because I can't read signs and posters they put up in small print"*
This is exactly what type of signs and information I would look to make it more convenient to read, as well as information for public transport such as if a train or bus is delayed. Hopefully, this helps clarify that. And so, do you believe this would help or is it too niche of a sector to look into?
CloudyBeep 1 points 3y ago
It would only be useful if there are signs to read. Pandemics happen extremely infrequently (though with the rise of super-bugs, that might not be the case for much longer, but I'm not an epidemiologist, so don't trust me), so when we're not in the midst of pandemics, will there be signs to read? I imagine that this could be useful for finding out about sales, but sometimes I find that retail workers let me know about things without me needing to ask because they see I'm blind, and sometimes this information is publicized through radio and TV messages. Many blind people also shop online more often than the average. As to public transit, at least in my region, many apps exist for monitoring delays and disruptions. I feel that people might not want to wear glasses or something that performs just one function when it might not even do so for the duration of their outing. I'm not sure about airports—maybe it could be used there—but I still think I'd prefer using a service like Aira (www.aira.mo) that can give me more information that is more relevant to my needs.
Comacrin 1 points 3y ago
My two cents would be for something to make graphs/charts accessible in real time. I believe there’s a hardware device coming out to convert graphs/charts into a tactile format, but it’s going to cost around $5000. Nothing feasible for an individual. Something like this could have countless applications. Finance, health,etc. I talked to accessibility folks about this and they say currently, it’s not really practical or possible since there are so many variables. Whether it’s an embedded image, coding etc. even a browser extension that can convert to a traditional table or something along those lines.
devinprater 1 points 3y ago
Okay, if you really want to help, I'll give things that would actually be of use to us.
* An iOS implementation of the Seeing with Sound project: https://seeingwithsound.com
* much improvements to the Linux accessibility API's, like ATK and optimization of them with GTK.
* Write functions for Orca and other Linux accessibility software
* A Windows speech server for Emacspeak
* Sound packs for Multiuser Dungons (MUDs) for the Tintin++ MUD client
* Scripts to make retro games accessible. Look into Retroarch and their ongoing attempt at making Final Fantasy 1 accessible
In short, we need more accessibility in software. We don't need more useless hardware glasses that cost upwards of $6000 because there aren't that many blind people. But of course, it takes time to do stuff with software rather than design hardware.
* An iOS implementation of the Seeing with Sound project: https://seeingwithsound.com
* much improvements to the Linux accessibility API's, like ATK and optimization of them with GTK.
* Write functions for Orca and other Linux accessibility software
* A Windows speech server for Emacspeak
* Sound packs for Multiuser Dungons (MUDs) for the Tintin++ MUD client
* Scripts to make retro games accessible. Look into Retroarch and their ongoing attempt at making Final Fantasy 1 accessible
In short, we need more accessibility in software. We don't need more useless hardware glasses that cost upwards of $6000 because there aren't that many blind people. But of course, it takes time to do stuff with software rather than design hardware.
bradley22 0 points 3y ago
There's glasses called Sarah that are being invented already but because of the virus, things have stopped for now.
These glasses will be able to read and navigate blind people around the world.
Here's the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/bs433p/hi_there_need_honest_oppinion_of_blind_person_on/
Don't give up though, I wasn't any way near as smart as you are at 14 and hope you use your talents for what ever you wish.
These glasses will be able to read and navigate blind people around the world.
Here's the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/bs433p/hi_there_need_honest_oppinion_of_blind_person_on/
Don't give up though, I wasn't any way near as smart as you are at 14 and hope you use your talents for what ever you wish.
HexadecimalHero [OP] 1 points 3y ago
Thank you for linking this post and it definitely doesn't dishearten me but rather inspires, as I am looking to develop off of current technology and make them more accessible through the inclusion of the blind in the making process, and so this definitely helps. Thank you for your response!
msimmons024 0 points 3y ago
Honestly the best thing would be self driving cars
HexadecimalHero [OP] 1 points 3y ago
I do understand this, but currently, I am looking at integrating technology through some sort of app, to build up my skills and confidence within this area, and after this will then look at creating larger scale innovations to help the lives of the blind even further. Thank you for your reply!
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