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I need your opinion on a assistive technology project. (self.Blind)
submitted by RandomBane
Hi r/blind,
I am working on a assistive technology project, a kind of "compass belt". Basically an array of vibration motors around your waist that will vibrate towards north. So if you are facing north, it will vibrate on your front, if you are facing east, it will vibrate on your left and so on.
I know this is no new idea, this german company has already made it a product:
$1
However, they closed down their shop and only sell via your health insurance, wich isn´t an option for everyone.
The complete project will be open source as soon as its working, so it can be built and improved by everybody.
I´m not doing this to earn money, I ´m just really interested in human-machine-interfaces and creating something usefull. If you are convinced that this won´t be of any use or there is a way to improve it, please let me know.
I am working on a assistive technology project, a kind of "compass belt". Basically an array of vibration motors around your waist that will vibrate towards north. So if you are facing north, it will vibrate on your front, if you are facing east, it will vibrate on your left and so on.
I know this is no new idea, this german company has already made it a product:
$1
However, they closed down their shop and only sell via your health insurance, wich isn´t an option for everyone.
The complete project will be open source as soon as its working, so it can be built and improved by everybody.
I´m not doing this to earn money, I ´m just really interested in human-machine-interfaces and creating something usefull. If you are convinced that this won´t be of any use or there is a way to improve it, please let me know.
bscross32 8 points 2y ago
I think high tech just because you can is a bad approach. For instance, I could just get a magnetic braille compass that does the exact same thing and check it as needed. I don't need to have a constant fix on north.
​
Besides which, I generally like low tech solutions. Not that I don't use my phone with specific apps to serve in that capacity, but with something like a braille compass, you don't have to worry about whether you charged it enough to last all day, etc.
​
Besides which, I generally like low tech solutions. Not that I don't use my phone with specific apps to serve in that capacity, but with something like a braille compass, you don't have to worry about whether you charged it enough to last all day, etc.
RandomBane [OP] 1 points 2y ago
I never knew this exists - such a genius solution.
It´s a fair point. Using technology for the sake of using technology is not the way to go. My hope is, that permanent knowledge of your orientation will evolve into an "additional sense". The benefit of that hasn´t been widely tested, other than the study I quoted before.
It´s a fair point. Using technology for the sake of using technology is not the way to go. My hope is, that permanent knowledge of your orientation will evolve into an "additional sense". The benefit of that hasn´t been widely tested, other than the study I quoted before.
CloudyBeep 1 points 2y ago
Speakers of the Guugu Yimithirr language, which uses cardinal directions instead of directions relative to oneself, have been proven to be better at navigation.
retrolental_morose 6 points 2y ago
just a few thoughts ...
Why a belt? Wouldn't a smaller design - something for a wrist perhaps - be more economical, less intrusive etc?
How important is north: certainly useful to know about, but if i'm aiming for a particular building, the entrance is rarely so exactly 90° any more than a street crossing is.
Why a belt? Wouldn't a smaller design - something for a wrist perhaps - be more economical, less intrusive etc?
How important is north: certainly useful to know about, but if i'm aiming for a particular building, the entrance is rarely so exactly 90° any more than a street crossing is.
RandomBane [OP] 2 points 2y ago
The wrist band is a nice idea, though the smaller size will create some engineering problems. I still think it can be done, but it will definetly result in a lower accuracy (fewer vibration motors) and reduced battery life.
Maybe knowing about magnetic north is more about having a "absolute reference point" rather than making sense of your close surroundings. Research also seems to go in that direction:
‘It was different from mere tactile stimulation because the belt mediated a spatial feeling.’ This feeling was present in everyday situations: ‘I was intuitively aware of the direction of my home or of my office. For example, I would wait in line in the cafeteria and spontaneously think: I’m living over there.’
Source: $1
Thanks for your help, I will definetly think about the wrist band idea!
Maybe knowing about magnetic north is more about having a "absolute reference point" rather than making sense of your close surroundings. Research also seems to go in that direction:
‘It was different from mere tactile stimulation because the belt mediated a spatial feeling.’ This feeling was present in everyday situations: ‘I was intuitively aware of the direction of my home or of my office. For example, I would wait in line in the cafeteria and spontaneously think: I’m living over there.’
Source: $1
Thanks for your help, I will definetly think about the wrist band idea!
Mysterybanjo 3 points 2y ago
This sort of thing always ends up ridiculously expensive and inaccessible to the majority of disabled people, I just don’t see the point
RandomBane [OP] 1 points 2y ago
It´s a niche market with not much competition. Usually really specialized tools are really expensive. Doesn´t mean it´s fair, though.
I´m not really sure if I will be able to manufacture and sell my designs as it involves investing a lot more money upfront, but the design will be free to use.
I´m not really sure if I will be able to manufacture and sell my designs as it involves investing a lot more money upfront, but the design will be free to use.
Mysterybanjo 3 points 2y ago
This seems really superfluous? I can just use the compass on my phone
RandomBane [OP] 1 points 2y ago
I imagine the feedback of vibration motors will be more intuitive and require less processing on your end than using a compass app on your phone. I use the compass app on my phone somewhat frequently (my sense of direction is just really bad) and it takes me way longer to get my orientation compared to the instantaneous feedback of a compass belt.
Of course its all speculation until I have built something thats actually working :D
Of course its all speculation until I have built something thats actually working :D
DariusA92 3 points 2y ago
It's a good idea, but I wonder if the constant vibration wouldn't be irritating after a while. Of course, we could turn it off when necessary, but still it might be a problem. Maybe a wrist watch,, a necklace, something that can be pinned on your shirt, or something that can be installed on the white cane. Just press a button, if it's a wrist watch hold your wrist in front of you, and then start rotating. As soon as you face north it starts vibrating. It would only need a compass sensor. There are apps on Android and IOS that do this, but a device like one of these would be much more comfortable to use; You wouldn't need to constantly hold your phone in your hand.
RandomBane [OP] 2 points 2y ago
The constant vibration problem is solvable in my opinion. Implemented in the current software to solve is this:
1. Multiple vibration patterns. You can choose the one that fits you best.
2. The option to only vibrate when the orientation is changing - the vibration will stop, when you sit down, only face one direction, etc
3. Tapping the belt twice will turn it off.
I talked about the wrist band in the reply to retrolental\_morose, I think I will try and actually design this. Your idea of only using one vibration motor and turning yourself to find north is something I never thought of and a lot easier to manufacture.
Thanks for your help!
1. Multiple vibration patterns. You can choose the one that fits you best.
2. The option to only vibrate when the orientation is changing - the vibration will stop, when you sit down, only face one direction, etc
3. Tapping the belt twice will turn it off.
I talked about the wrist band in the reply to retrolental\_morose, I think I will try and actually design this. Your idea of only using one vibration motor and turning yourself to find north is something I never thought of and a lot easier to manufacture.
Thanks for your help!
DariusA92 2 points 2y ago
You're welcome. Good luck with your project.
gelema5 2 points 2y ago
Here's a design idea. Why not turn it into an alarm as well as a compass? Perhaps it buzzes in the north direction once an hour, and will do so also if you tap it twice. I have my Mac set to announce the hour and it's a nice way to feel time passing.
JMinNC 2 points 2y ago
A friend of mine designed and built exactly this a number of years back. He did a version with four pager motors and one with six. The idea is definitely to make which direction north is something you don’t really have to think about. As an orientation and mobility specialist, I think it could be very useful in instruction to help someone maintain an awareness of direction and line of travel. If you are interested, I can try to dig up his design plans which he had posted as a part of a competition. From a mobility standpoint, the issue with doing it in a wristband would be that it is very easy to not have your body and your wrist aligned the same way. Having a sense of which direction your torso is facing is much more likely to help you align your travel with that direction.
RandomBane [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Sure, I would like to look at it, if its not too much work to find it.
To your wrist alignment issue: I feel like this is a valid concern, but just one of those things that we have to test to be sure. Maybe our brain is smart enough to make sense of the vibration on your hand, even if its not in the same orientation as your torso.
Turning your hand outwards or upwards (like when holding a phone) is definetly a problem, though. At 90 degrees between your arm and torso the wrist band would be bassically unusable.
This was really helpfull, thank you.
To your wrist alignment issue: I feel like this is a valid concern, but just one of those things that we have to test to be sure. Maybe our brain is smart enough to make sense of the vibration on your hand, even if its not in the same orientation as your torso.
Turning your hand outwards or upwards (like when holding a phone) is definetly a problem, though. At 90 degrees between your arm and torso the wrist band would be bassically unusable.
This was really helpfull, thank you.
JMinNC 3 points 2y ago
Here ya go. The pictures seem to have gone away, but this has a fair bit of discussion about the project.
http://sf0.org/tasks/Bite-the-Transhumanist-Bullet/
Re wrist vs body orientation, we spend a fair bit of time in orientation and mobility working on the students body alignment. For someone who is blind proprioception is sometimes off. The student might not always aware that their feet are pointed off to the side or that their arms are being held out away from their body. Also most blind people already have one hand engaged in holding their cane or dog guide. The other might be needed to hold some other object. That would limit their options as far as orienting the wrist. Some thing that is on a belt is going to stay oriented with the pelvis, which is pretty directly connected to which direction they will walk.
http://sf0.org/tasks/Bite-the-Transhumanist-Bullet/
Re wrist vs body orientation, we spend a fair bit of time in orientation and mobility working on the students body alignment. For someone who is blind proprioception is sometimes off. The student might not always aware that their feet are pointed off to the side or that their arms are being held out away from their body. Also most blind people already have one hand engaged in holding their cane or dog guide. The other might be needed to hold some other object. That would limit their options as far as orienting the wrist. Some thing that is on a belt is going to stay oriented with the pelvis, which is pretty directly connected to which direction they will walk.
RandomBane [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Thanks again for your help! The lack of proprioception is really good to know as well.
JMinNC 1 points 2y ago
You’re welcome. And just to be clear, blind people have proprioception. What they frequently don’t have is an accurate way of comparing their proprioceptive sense with the actual position of their body. That can be something that an orientation & mobility specialist or occupational therapist or other professional might work with them on. Think about your sense of where your shoulders are. Or your feet. You generally can’t see your shoulders as you go through the day. Do you have an accurate sense of whether they are pulled up towards your ears or dropped down and relaxed? What feels “normal”? Do you have an accurate sense of where they actually are? Or just that they feel normal....
MostlyBlindGamer 2 points 2y ago
Bedsides the other comments here, you might also like to know this has been done before:
https://360.here.com/2015/04/17/wearables-improve-sense-direction/
https://360.here.com/2015/04/17/wearables-improve-sense-direction/
codeplaysleep 2 points 2y ago
I'm not sure a device like this would be useful, but....
Either way, I don't like the idea of a belt. I'm not going to want to wear a belt, a lot of people won't want to wear clothing that accommodates a belt (e.g. athletic wear, dresses, etc.).
A wristband would be a better idea.
I know you've talked about the problems with a wristband - smaller size = less battery life, less room for sensors/motors, etc. but I think you're over-complicating the idea.
It only needs to detect north. If it detects north, everyone can figure out ESW from there and then. you can find the direction you're facing just by rotating your wrist.
To make it more useful than, say, a braille compass that already exists, maybe instead of just compass directions, work on something that does the following:
Yes, it can have a feature to detect north, with a button press, or something.
But it's main purpose would be that you would "lock in" the direction you need to go (maybe once you've found north and are facing the right way) and it would vibrate if you got too far off course from that direction (and stop vibrating when you were pointed back the right way).
Still not sure how useful that would be, but it feels more useful than just knowing cardinal directions, which most of us are trained how to figure out reasonably well via O&M instructions, anyway.
Either way, I don't like the idea of a belt. I'm not going to want to wear a belt, a lot of people won't want to wear clothing that accommodates a belt (e.g. athletic wear, dresses, etc.).
A wristband would be a better idea.
I know you've talked about the problems with a wristband - smaller size = less battery life, less room for sensors/motors, etc. but I think you're over-complicating the idea.
It only needs to detect north. If it detects north, everyone can figure out ESW from there and then. you can find the direction you're facing just by rotating your wrist.
To make it more useful than, say, a braille compass that already exists, maybe instead of just compass directions, work on something that does the following:
Yes, it can have a feature to detect north, with a button press, or something.
But it's main purpose would be that you would "lock in" the direction you need to go (maybe once you've found north and are facing the right way) and it would vibrate if you got too far off course from that direction (and stop vibrating when you were pointed back the right way).
Still not sure how useful that would be, but it feels more useful than just knowing cardinal directions, which most of us are trained how to figure out reasonably well via O&M instructions, anyway.
RandomBane [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Because my current prototype is set up to be modular (main module, smaller vibration modules) and just have to be connected, it should be easy to test your design idea as well.
I´m still not completly convinced, that the belt design is inconvenient to wear, since it will not be bigger than a heart-rate sensor that people already wear arround their chest when working out, but you definitly have a point - a wristband would be more comfortable.
The "lock in" mode makes a lot of sense, I will try it out.
Thanks for taking the time to go in such detail :)
I´m still not completly convinced, that the belt design is inconvenient to wear, since it will not be bigger than a heart-rate sensor that people already wear arround their chest when working out, but you definitly have a point - a wristband would be more comfortable.
The "lock in" mode makes a lot of sense, I will try it out.
Thanks for taking the time to go in such detail :)
WhatWouldVaderDo 2 points 2y ago
This reminds me of the North Paw [1]. I've always wanted to play with one since the use cases are pretty cool [2] and [3].
Go for it, what a fun project.
[1]: https://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/
[2]: https://www.wired.com/2007/04/esp/
[3]: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028185-800-haptic-soldiers-guided-by-buzzing-belt/
Go for it, what a fun project.
[1]: https://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/
[2]: https://www.wired.com/2007/04/esp/
[3]: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028185-800-haptic-soldiers-guided-by-buzzing-belt/
RandomBane [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Nice, they also uploaded source code and everything. The electronics look like something I tried too, (same controller, same way to control the motors) although it is a bit outdated now. Still very usefull, thank you.
Also I think you forgot the links to your use cases :D
Also I think you forgot the links to your use cases :D
WhatWouldVaderDo 1 points 2y ago
Ah, it appears that I unintentionally made my post look like Markdown. It should be fixed now.
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