Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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[META] Should we ban posts that want to interview people from our community without compensation, more details in the post. (self.Blind)
submitted by Winnmark
EDIT 3: This is my last edit before I send the mods a message, I just have a few last points:
* The statement that u/Superfreq2 gave should, at least in my opinion, be adopted as a community rule, the statement being "Any posts requesting research participants where use of the data collected may reasonably be expected to eventually result in direct financial gain for the party conducting it, or those who they represent, must include guaranteed financial compensation for all participants who complete the task or tasks within the agreed upon parameters."
* It seems that most of the community wants *something* to happen. There are some that disagree, but they are in the minority.
* I don't know what the next steps are, I don't have all the answers, but the community consensus is that *at least* a compulsion for flairs should be implemented, though I would say that (through careful reading of all the [at the time of this writing] 45 comments) the community would like a firm stance to be taken.
* The post has a (at the time of this writing) 95% upvote ratio.
---End Edit
So, in other words, I've been seeing a lot of posts from folks that want to interview blind or visually impaired people for this or that reason, however, I'd wager that less than half of those people are willing to cough up some sort of payment.
$1 is a particularly bad example. You'll notice that the post, and account it seems, were deleted, and rightfully so; but, you can still see my, and another user's, comment. In short, a *company* wanted to interview blind people so that they may better turn a profit for accessible materials, like books and stuff.
$1 is another example, however this post is still up. To quote the post:
>We are not offering remuneration at this time.
To quote u/$1
>Yup. I don't really understand how "let's get free consulting from disabled people" gets past a lunch meeting, let alone posted on the internet.
He brings up a good point. To paraphrase him, u/$1 (the OP for the post) is asking for a service from us, a service that will help his company sell a product. Our service, our product, in this case, wouldn't help the wider good, so to speak. Therefore, how is that sand-shrew and his peers thought it appropriate to ask for a free service. This is some r/ChoosingBeggars stuff up in here.
Now, quite frankly, I don't care if your business is on the next best thing to help out blind people, if you're *not* going to pay us for testing your product, being interviewed, or etc., I believe you have *no business* asking for help. I don't want to be insensitive to the small company, but I will also not help someone make it big, so to speak, without even a coffee out of it. It's not greed, it's not misplaced ambition, it's just business. It's logical. It's the way the world works; money makes the world go round.
Companies like Code Factory and Freedom Scientific take an arm and a leg for mediocre solutions, (stay builtin or free & open source my friends!) so how is it that we allow our community to be interviewed and etc. without also taking our part of the pie.
I gave a look at the side bar and, unless I seriously missed it, I don't think there's anything about this in the rules & regs for the sub. I would like to suggest that we add it as a community rule. I don't know if this has been brought up before, if so, my apologies. I also don't really know how ideas are presented for mod implementation, so I also apologize if this is the wrong way of doing it and ask that I be pointed in the right direction.
Now, there is something to be said about a middle school kid that just needs to interview someone for a class project, I mean, I don't expect a seventh grader to cough up 20 or 30 bucks for a half an hour interview he needs to do for class. However, college students are a bit grey. I'm a college student right now, so I can understand the inability to come up with extra cash, so perhaps a college person's request can be done on a case by case analysis. And besides, most college interviews are from master's or doctorate students from labs or departments that *can* pay and have allotted money for such things.
But a business, or a research or consulting firm *has no excuse.*
What are y'all's thoughts?
EDIT 1: u/Superfreq2 brought up a good point. If no rule is forced, there should at least be a compulsion to flair interview or research posts appropriately.
EDIT 2: u/vaguedoom brings up a good point: what about people that want to write books about blind folk?
* The statement that u/Superfreq2 gave should, at least in my opinion, be adopted as a community rule, the statement being "Any posts requesting research participants where use of the data collected may reasonably be expected to eventually result in direct financial gain for the party conducting it, or those who they represent, must include guaranteed financial compensation for all participants who complete the task or tasks within the agreed upon parameters."
* It seems that most of the community wants *something* to happen. There are some that disagree, but they are in the minority.
* I don't know what the next steps are, I don't have all the answers, but the community consensus is that *at least* a compulsion for flairs should be implemented, though I would say that (through careful reading of all the [at the time of this writing] 45 comments) the community would like a firm stance to be taken.
* The post has a (at the time of this writing) 95% upvote ratio.
---End Edit
So, in other words, I've been seeing a lot of posts from folks that want to interview blind or visually impaired people for this or that reason, however, I'd wager that less than half of those people are willing to cough up some sort of payment.
$1 is a particularly bad example. You'll notice that the post, and account it seems, were deleted, and rightfully so; but, you can still see my, and another user's, comment. In short, a *company* wanted to interview blind people so that they may better turn a profit for accessible materials, like books and stuff.
$1 is another example, however this post is still up. To quote the post:
>We are not offering remuneration at this time.
To quote u/$1
>Yup. I don't really understand how "let's get free consulting from disabled people" gets past a lunch meeting, let alone posted on the internet.
He brings up a good point. To paraphrase him, u/$1 (the OP for the post) is asking for a service from us, a service that will help his company sell a product. Our service, our product, in this case, wouldn't help the wider good, so to speak. Therefore, how is that sand-shrew and his peers thought it appropriate to ask for a free service. This is some r/ChoosingBeggars stuff up in here.
Now, quite frankly, I don't care if your business is on the next best thing to help out blind people, if you're *not* going to pay us for testing your product, being interviewed, or etc., I believe you have *no business* asking for help. I don't want to be insensitive to the small company, but I will also not help someone make it big, so to speak, without even a coffee out of it. It's not greed, it's not misplaced ambition, it's just business. It's logical. It's the way the world works; money makes the world go round.
Companies like Code Factory and Freedom Scientific take an arm and a leg for mediocre solutions, (stay builtin or free & open source my friends!) so how is it that we allow our community to be interviewed and etc. without also taking our part of the pie.
I gave a look at the side bar and, unless I seriously missed it, I don't think there's anything about this in the rules & regs for the sub. I would like to suggest that we add it as a community rule. I don't know if this has been brought up before, if so, my apologies. I also don't really know how ideas are presented for mod implementation, so I also apologize if this is the wrong way of doing it and ask that I be pointed in the right direction.
Now, there is something to be said about a middle school kid that just needs to interview someone for a class project, I mean, I don't expect a seventh grader to cough up 20 or 30 bucks for a half an hour interview he needs to do for class. However, college students are a bit grey. I'm a college student right now, so I can understand the inability to come up with extra cash, so perhaps a college person's request can be done on a case by case analysis. And besides, most college interviews are from master's or doctorate students from labs or departments that *can* pay and have allotted money for such things.
But a business, or a research or consulting firm *has no excuse.*
What are y'all's thoughts?
EDIT 1: u/Superfreq2 brought up a good point. If no rule is forced, there should at least be a compulsion to flair interview or research posts appropriately.
EDIT 2: u/vaguedoom brings up a good point: what about people that want to write books about blind folk?
Drop9Reddit 32 points 2y ago
I genuinely get frustrated by most of these posts even before the talk of money as they have done very little research into the community
Envrin 8 points 2y ago
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Yeah, agreed with this. Seems at least once a week someone drops a post asking for an interview, us to complete a survey, asks for a product idea they should develop to help blind folks, or whatever. I can't remember a single time they came back with a post saying, "thanks for all the great feedback, here's what we came up with, check it out and let us know". Not once.
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Then not all of them, but many have at the very least a tone of ignorance to them, and sometimes even slight superiority. To me at least, sometimes just comes off as trying to be a hero by helping the lowly, helpless blind people out, all the while being totally uninformed about blind folks. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but at times they come off as someone trying to help a wounded animal or something, and it just rubs me the wrong way.
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I just want a place I can relax and hang out with some fellow blind folks, and preferably without feeling like I'm being examined by folks who think I'm inferior to them, thanks.
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Yeah, agreed with this. Seems at least once a week someone drops a post asking for an interview, us to complete a survey, asks for a product idea they should develop to help blind folks, or whatever. I can't remember a single time they came back with a post saying, "thanks for all the great feedback, here's what we came up with, check it out and let us know". Not once.
​
Then not all of them, but many have at the very least a tone of ignorance to them, and sometimes even slight superiority. To me at least, sometimes just comes off as trying to be a hero by helping the lowly, helpless blind people out, all the while being totally uninformed about blind folks. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but at times they come off as someone trying to help a wounded animal or something, and it just rubs me the wrong way.
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I just want a place I can relax and hang out with some fellow blind folks, and preferably without feeling like I'm being examined by folks who think I'm inferior to them, thanks.
Winnmark [OP] 7 points 2y ago
In this one concept, in the abstract, I must disagree.
The blind community is a bit niche, that is, relatively small and not known about at large. For example, can you tell me about Latin phonology in relation to Etruscan? I'm going to go on a limb here and say that you can't. That's a very specific question in a subfield of linguistics. I can barely talk about that, and I studied linguistics at university, but I specialized in sociolinguistics & culture for my minor.
My point is: I can't blame a sighted person for not knowing about the blind community, and I don't think we should strike this against the sighted folks. It's kind of like a catch 22, if we don't educate the sighted folks about us, they'll keep asking, and if we get bothered by their asking, they won't learn, thus giving way to them not asking, and when they do ask again, the cycle starts once more.
The blind community is a bit niche, that is, relatively small and not known about at large. For example, can you tell me about Latin phonology in relation to Etruscan? I'm going to go on a limb here and say that you can't. That's a very specific question in a subfield of linguistics. I can barely talk about that, and I studied linguistics at university, but I specialized in sociolinguistics & culture for my minor.
My point is: I can't blame a sighted person for not knowing about the blind community, and I don't think we should strike this against the sighted folks. It's kind of like a catch 22, if we don't educate the sighted folks about us, they'll keep asking, and if we get bothered by their asking, they won't learn, thus giving way to them not asking, and when they do ask again, the cycle starts once more.
CloudyBeep 18 points 2y ago
I don't agree with your example. Your example from linguistics is highly theoretical, and a quick google will probably turn up information that the average person couldn't sort through, let alone decipher. However, aqk google "how do blind people do X" will give lots of clear information. Even though we're a very niche community, we're no harder to find information about than any other niche community.
47milliondollars 6 points 2y ago
Totally agree. I’m a sighted person who somehow hadn’t come across many folks who are blind in my life but in one of my research jobs started coming across feedback from frustrated users who were required to use our app in their jobs but couldn’t because it was really badly designed and developed for accessibility. I kinda went grassroots and started developing an accessibility research program/process but was super nervous about my ignorance on the subject and spent like two months studying to learn what I could without having to ask. There are a lot of great resources out there. Still needed a lot of handholding from participants and still have a lot to learn, but helped not waste people’s time and effort unnecessarily.
Luckily at that job the UX research setup was hella sophisticated and I could pay folks $125/hr for their time, but I had had jobs previously where I had to ask our client/user base for volunteers for research studies/programs without compensation because my management wouldn’t allow it (not accessibility related, but other specific demographics/user bases). Some researchers actually do this as a general rule because they worry compensation will impact the feedback (e.g. folks being more agreeable than they actually feel, or not being genuinely invested in the impact of their feedback). The jury is still out on that one for me, but I will say, there are a ton of people chomping at the bit to be involved in programs like these because they want to influence the direction of the product. But this is more the case with regular users, wouldn’t think anyone should expect this cold-messaging people who have nothing to do with the product or service.
Handful of random points here but hopefully shines some light on the researcher perspective. Ultimately I agree with you that it’s silly to ask for uncompensated time to help with a product y’all don’t even care about, but FWIW this isn’t specific to accessibility research and happens all the time for all kinds of folks. And some people truly do it with intentions to help cus their company sucks at having an official process for this.
Luckily at that job the UX research setup was hella sophisticated and I could pay folks $125/hr for their time, but I had had jobs previously where I had to ask our client/user base for volunteers for research studies/programs without compensation because my management wouldn’t allow it (not accessibility related, but other specific demographics/user bases). Some researchers actually do this as a general rule because they worry compensation will impact the feedback (e.g. folks being more agreeable than they actually feel, or not being genuinely invested in the impact of their feedback). The jury is still out on that one for me, but I will say, there are a ton of people chomping at the bit to be involved in programs like these because they want to influence the direction of the product. But this is more the case with regular users, wouldn’t think anyone should expect this cold-messaging people who have nothing to do with the product or service.
Handful of random points here but hopefully shines some light on the researcher perspective. Ultimately I agree with you that it’s silly to ask for uncompensated time to help with a product y’all don’t even care about, but FWIW this isn’t specific to accessibility research and happens all the time for all kinds of folks. And some people truly do it with intentions to help cus their company sucks at having an official process for this.
Drop9Reddit 2 points 2y ago
Thats fair however Perhaps there is room to consolidate it into a megathread
TK_Sleepytime 17 points 2y ago
Yes, please ban them. If I want to be questioned about my blind experience for free all I have to do is step outside and try to have a normal day.
Superfreq2 16 points 2y ago
I believe that:
Any posts requesting research participants where use of the data collected may reasonably be expected to eventually result in direct financial gain for the party conducting it, or those who they represent, must include *guaranteed* financial compensation for *all* participants who complete the task or tasks within the agreed upon parameters.
This kind of rule should protect our rights while still allowing for our input in ways that could help improve things for all of us.
Any posts requesting research participants where use of the data collected may reasonably be expected to eventually result in direct financial gain for the party conducting it, or those who they represent, must include *guaranteed* financial compensation for *all* participants who complete the task or tasks within the agreed upon parameters.
This kind of rule should protect our rights while still allowing for our input in ways that could help improve things for all of us.
MostlyBlindGamer 3 points 2y ago
Sounds good to me as well.
jage9 2 points 2y ago
This is absolutely it. It still allows for questions, open-source things, and early-level school projects. There's a bit of a gray area with grad research but generally the poster isn't profiting along from it. I would perhaps extend this to say "research participants or consulting".
I'd like to see it written in a way that welcomes mainstream companies to come here, but under the understanding that work doesn't come for free. A quick question to see if anyone has used an app or service is one thing, but asking for long-term feedback is another.
This isn't a practice limited to blind people. There are plenty of willing and free beta testers for Apple, Google, Sonos, Spotify, etc. that test in exchange for trying out the next great service. Beta testing is another gray area here.
If nothing else, the flair would be a great start.
I'd like to see it written in a way that welcomes mainstream companies to come here, but under the understanding that work doesn't come for free. A quick question to see if anyone has used an app or service is one thing, but asking for long-term feedback is another.
This isn't a practice limited to blind people. There are plenty of willing and free beta testers for Apple, Google, Sonos, Spotify, etc. that test in exchange for trying out the next great service. Beta testing is another gray area here.
If nothing else, the flair would be a great start.
deepgreens_and_blues 2 points 2y ago
Completely agree! These are the facts of the matter laid out v clearly
Winnmark [OP] 2 points 2y ago
This. Right here folks.
retrolental_morose 14 points 2y ago
while I agree in theory, there's not enough posts to bother me and some of the discussion in some of the posts is quite engaging.
I'd vote to add something to the sidebar about expectation - TANSTAFL and all that.
I'd vote to add something to the sidebar about expectation - TANSTAFL and all that.
Winnmark [OP] 5 points 2y ago
TANSTAFL?
retrolental_morose 8 points 2y ago
The idea of there being no free lunch. Sighted researchers can't expect anything for nothing. If people choose to engage of their own volition then the I guess that's on the individuals.
wyongriver 8 points 2y ago
From Australia: This is an issue here since many charities are more like government contractors with our new National Disability Insurance Scheme. Now, these “charities” have “information days” which are thinly veiled sales drives to recruit as many low vision and blind people to maximise their revenue. In these days, the employees of the “charities” are often paid but they often invite blind speakers - without compensation - to speak “for the community”. I have direct knowledge of two incidents where sighted people were paid for such an event and blind speakers were not - even though one of the two events was a commercial event.
I am tired of the exploitation of blind people who are just expected to donate their tome.
I’m happy to help reasonable - non-profit - projects. But not to help such projects if there isn’t equal payment for low vision/blind and sighted.
I am tired of the exploitation of blind people who are just expected to donate their tome.
I’m happy to help reasonable - non-profit - projects. But not to help such projects if there isn’t equal payment for low vision/blind and sighted.
MostlyBlindGamer 8 points 2y ago
It seems to be like about a third of the pressure around here and neither from us nor for us. Those are the ones I dislike.
I'm not against calls for interviews or people trying to learn about the VI community - just Google my username and you'll see. What bothers me is blatant exploration. If you're looking to make a profit, if you need me to set aside a signification amount of time or energy for your benefit, I expect to get something out of it. Sometimes that'll be nothing more than the satisfaction of helping somebody out or participating in an interesting project.
In conclusion, some posts could use a (perhaps automated?) message from the mods regarding expectations, some could be outright removed and others are just fine. I'm not sure one hard and fast rule can solve the problem in a balanced manner.
I'm not against calls for interviews or people trying to learn about the VI community - just Google my username and you'll see. What bothers me is blatant exploration. If you're looking to make a profit, if you need me to set aside a signification amount of time or energy for your benefit, I expect to get something out of it. Sometimes that'll be nothing more than the satisfaction of helping somebody out or participating in an interesting project.
In conclusion, some posts could use a (perhaps automated?) message from the mods regarding expectations, some could be outright removed and others are just fine. I'm not sure one hard and fast rule can solve the problem in a balanced manner.
bjayernaeiy 3 points 2y ago
Agreed absolutely.
WeSaidMeh 7 points 2y ago
Website developer here, sighted, but with good contact to a local blind community, and a few blind friends. I asked them for help in the past.
It's complicated. First off: I'm on your side. But while I understand that you might find it rude to be asked for help without financial compensation, try to understand the other side: Making a website/game/application/whatever accessible for disabled people is a significant effort, and with only very limited return. It's a 10% extra effort, for a less than 1% return (numbers made up, but you get the gist).
In fact, most developers I know that do care about making their websites accessible (this is specific for website development) don't do it because they care about the blind people, but for having their website classified as "accessible" by Google and other search engines, to get a higher rating. They follow some guides and do the least possible effort for the classification, but without actually caring about the actual usability. It's sad, but this is how it works.
That's why I think that people that actively ask a blind community for help are probably more honest than that. I can't speak for all of them obviously, and reasoning may vary, but I think asking is fine.
When I pitch a website project to a customer, I always recommend making the extra effort. Some agree, some do it because it's good for the rating, some don't want the pay the extra 10%. I always do make my websites accessible as good as I can, at least the basics, even if the customer doesn't pay extra for it. But I might be the exception here, because I have blind friends who I often see struggle with websites, and that's something I want to do better personally.
So, long story short, I guess it depends on who asks. A company with big funds and a significant customer/user base where the portion of blind people matters, should pay/compensate you. No doubt there.
But a student or indie game developer, or a small website, probably not even commercial and with limited to no funds that wants to take the extra effort despite having no significant benefit, don't be too harsh.
And in the end you always can say no.
It's complicated. First off: I'm on your side. But while I understand that you might find it rude to be asked for help without financial compensation, try to understand the other side: Making a website/game/application/whatever accessible for disabled people is a significant effort, and with only very limited return. It's a 10% extra effort, for a less than 1% return (numbers made up, but you get the gist).
In fact, most developers I know that do care about making their websites accessible (this is specific for website development) don't do it because they care about the blind people, but for having their website classified as "accessible" by Google and other search engines, to get a higher rating. They follow some guides and do the least possible effort for the classification, but without actually caring about the actual usability. It's sad, but this is how it works.
That's why I think that people that actively ask a blind community for help are probably more honest than that. I can't speak for all of them obviously, and reasoning may vary, but I think asking is fine.
When I pitch a website project to a customer, I always recommend making the extra effort. Some agree, some do it because it's good for the rating, some don't want the pay the extra 10%. I always do make my websites accessible as good as I can, at least the basics, even if the customer doesn't pay extra for it. But I might be the exception here, because I have blind friends who I often see struggle with websites, and that's something I want to do better personally.
So, long story short, I guess it depends on who asks. A company with big funds and a significant customer/user base where the portion of blind people matters, should pay/compensate you. No doubt there.
But a student or indie game developer, or a small website, probably not even commercial and with limited to no funds that wants to take the extra effort despite having no significant benefit, don't be too harsh.
And in the end you always can say no.
jage9 1 points 2y ago
Well said, and this makes some sense. I will say when it comes to websites, that there is often something that can be offered that wouldn't cost the developer much or any money: Coupon toward the site, free premium access, small gift card, etc.
Like most things, I think it's all in the wording and intent.
Like most things, I think it's all in the wording and intent.
zosobaggins 7 points 2y ago
It's super simple: if you're asking for a ~~disabled~~ person's opinion, time, or skill, you pay them, disabled or not. I can't pay my rent in exposure, my cell bill in emails saying "thanks for your help!," or buy groceries in free apps.
While most of the time I appreciate where they're coming from and it's nice that people want to help, there has to be more tact and consideration going into it.
While most of the time I appreciate where they're coming from and it's nice that people want to help, there has to be more tact and consideration going into it.
thatblindgirl 6 points 2y ago
I agree! Even when I was in college, undergrads gave you a gift card for participating in their research survey.
Superfreq2 6 points 2y ago
I also think that any research posts should be tagged as such for people who want to skip them quickly.
Winnmark [OP] 1 points 2y ago
This!
vwlsmssng 6 points 2y ago
You can downvote posts.
You can learn about what products people are offering or attempts at accessibility they are making just be reading the post. You may never hear of these otherwise and just complain no one does anything for blind folk.
Some people could be prepared to give up their time for free because the product under test is of interest to them.
The product developer may be making nothing or a loss be delivering accessibility to blind folk, you would never know unless they can describe what they are doing.
You can learn about what products people are offering or attempts at accessibility they are making just be reading the post. You may never hear of these otherwise and just complain no one does anything for blind folk.
Some people could be prepared to give up their time for free because the product under test is of interest to them.
The product developer may be making nothing or a loss be delivering accessibility to blind folk, you would never know unless they can describe what they are doing.
Hallowss 4 points 2y ago
They should be banned
I don’t mind answering pre-uni students questions, but it seems everybody and his cat are doing projects/making the best new device/making the ‘first’ something and really, at this point the subreddit is more about answering these questions for people
Where we all the projects when we were in school??
I don’t mind answering pre-uni students questions, but it seems everybody and his cat are doing projects/making the best new device/making the ‘first’ something and really, at this point the subreddit is more about answering these questions for people
Where we all the projects when we were in school??
Quidditywiki 4 points 2y ago
I'd suggest considering an exemption, or specific guidance, for charities/non-profits, or free and open source software projects, and/or other "help the wider good" use-cases.
E.g. I'm a Wikipedian/Wikimedian who has been interested in [among way too many other topics!] accessible design [from web to architecture] for over 20 years. I really like this thread, because I've regularly wanted to ask for the insights of any members of this community on a variety of topics related to our Wikimedia sites and software design. I haven't yet done so, partially because I don't know what the etiquette is for "how many times the same person/group can ask"! E.g. hypothetically if I only get 1 question a year, then I want it to be the most important question possible. But that has meant that I never ask anything, because I'm scared to waste my chance for your attention!
In other words: I follow a handful of accessibility subreddits and have often appreciated reading the feedback you've all given to some of the requests from web-developers and software-developers. Especially the requests from people who are trying to build accessibility-related software or improve their accessibility-related websites. So I hope you'll keep allowing some of them, somehow. Thanks, and I hope that helps!
E.g. I'm a Wikipedian/Wikimedian who has been interested in [among way too many other topics!] accessible design [from web to architecture] for over 20 years. I really like this thread, because I've regularly wanted to ask for the insights of any members of this community on a variety of topics related to our Wikimedia sites and software design. I haven't yet done so, partially because I don't know what the etiquette is for "how many times the same person/group can ask"! E.g. hypothetically if I only get 1 question a year, then I want it to be the most important question possible. But that has meant that I never ask anything, because I'm scared to waste my chance for your attention!
In other words: I follow a handful of accessibility subreddits and have often appreciated reading the feedback you've all given to some of the requests from web-developers and software-developers. Especially the requests from people who are trying to build accessibility-related software or improve their accessibility-related websites. So I hope you'll keep allowing some of them, somehow. Thanks, and I hope that helps!
[deleted] 4 points 2y ago
Im thinking it'll filter out a lot of junk. Its been a bit spammy here of late full of advertising. Thats why I dont come here often. I get fed up of ads for apps and so forth. I think its a good thing but there should be a thread specially for that. Or at least some filter in place. Filtering out the inconvenient ones to convenient paid ones is one possible route.
yourmommaisaunicorn 4 points 2y ago
I think setting up an automod with a flair requirement would suffice. It can be something specific such as “App Feeback” or generic as “Project”
I hate the posts only because as a sighted person going blind I’m usually excluded from the requests as they’re looking for someone with at most 10% field with 20/20 vision. There is a wide spectrum of blindness and I gave up on explaining this.
I hate the posts only because as a sighted person going blind I’m usually excluded from the requests as they’re looking for someone with at most 10% field with 20/20 vision. There is a wide spectrum of blindness and I gave up on explaining this.
achromatic_03 3 points 2y ago
I feel torn about the different requests. There are apps that I find are not accessible, and I would consult with them for free any day to get it to be more accessible, but I've never even had luck with that...and those apps tend to be free. I am less certain about products, where the company will for sure directly make money...I would be most happy if they would offer to give out the product or discount codes to people who help them out. I already expressed my feelings about the authors---the worst! Generally, people just don't get the complexities, and they want it to be too simple. It just gets exhausting because our heterogeneity matters in a very functional way!
Winnmark [OP] 1 points 2y ago
And this is why stuff like this is left up to the democratic, community process.
I don't know all the answers, but the community at large does.
I don't know all the answers, but the community at large does.
achromatic_03 2 points 2y ago
That makes me feel like I'm a swing voter
Winnmark [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Lol
ABlindManPlays 3 points 2y ago
Most of these 'companies' don't seem to be serious about helping us. Let them put their money where their mouth is. We're not lab rats, and some extra dosh is always appreciated, especially since some of us struggle in the employment field.
As far as book writing? They can compensate for consult. Most of the would-be 'authors' who have talked to me aren't even willing to look past their preconceptions for accuracy. Some of the shit I've heard has been mind-boggling. "If your true love walks into the room, can your heart tell without seeing her?" Christ, I need a drink just thinking about that one.
Lately it seems like half the posts on here want to use us as a free resource. I. for one, am sick and tired of it. Let them show us they are serious, and we will take them seriously.
As far as book writing? They can compensate for consult. Most of the would-be 'authors' who have talked to me aren't even willing to look past their preconceptions for accuracy. Some of the shit I've heard has been mind-boggling. "If your true love walks into the room, can your heart tell without seeing her?" Christ, I need a drink just thinking about that one.
Lately it seems like half the posts on here want to use us as a free resource. I. for one, am sick and tired of it. Let them show us they are serious, and we will take them seriously.
Winnmark [OP] 1 points 2y ago
This man!
vaguedoom 3 points 2y ago
How do we feel about all the people writing books with blind characters?
achromatic_03 1 points 2y ago
I hate it so much! I keep thinking, do people go onto the African American or Black Lives Matter subreddit and say like, I want my main character to be black. Can you tell me about being black? No, you wouldn't do that crap! Stay in your own lane people! Those authors are not going to authentically represent our community, especially because their posts tell me they already have a very narrow view of what blindness is.
Winnmark [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Good question!
CosmicBunny97 3 points 2y ago
Yeah, I think it’s a good idea to ban those wanting to use us for interviews or projects without compensation
je97 3 points 2y ago
Isn't it good that companies are looking for our input in product development? I'm not sure what you're suggesting is going to benefit the blind community if I'm honest, it'll just mean that people who once were happy to give advice to companies for free about accessible design are no longer able to and we once again get overlooked. This would be a step backwards in my opinion.
I might edit this if posts of this nature get out of hand, but the odd request for advice is only helpful at the moment.
I might edit this if posts of this nature get out of hand, but the odd request for advice is only helpful at the moment.
zosobaggins 4 points 2y ago
Yes, it is good that they're noticing and wanting to make their thing inclusive, but why shouldn't blind people get paid? It's consultancy work. Consultants get paid or they don't consult. Having real world experience entirely qualifies us to be consultants, and just because we're disabled doesn't mean it should be for free.
je97 5 points 2y ago
It seems more like market research. There are assistive technology consultants and accessibility consultants out there, and they get paid. I see it more like a company asking users of a niche platform (android pre-2010 comes to mind) what they would like to see in their app for that platform. If they just want a few comments and pointers, I see no problem in offering that to them: if they want an indepth interview lasting hours, product testing etc I do that as well but I charge for it. That's the line I draw.
againer 3 points 2y ago
Sighted person weighing in here, so please take my response with a grain of salt. People are asked all the time to be interviewed by companies for product input and feedback. They aren't always compensated. If there's a focus group for a profitable company then there probably will be compensation.
I imagine a lot of people asking for input from this community are either looking to develop something new or looking to improve a product. This happens in virtually every reddit community, generally they are downvoted or banned by the mods. Since this community exists, it's probably the largest user pool where sighted individuals can find non sighted / vision impaired individuals.
Your time is your time. You have every right to say no or pass. Additionally, people interviewing are looking for general trends, not a specific thing. There's no interview where someone tells about their experience, then the interviewer cackles maniacally and goes and creates a billion dollar business off the idea. It's about hearing many different perspectives and coming up with an idea after hearing them. It's going to be tough to "monetize" your experience, as in the end no two people have the same experiences or perspectives.
I imagine a lot of people asking for input from this community are either looking to develop something new or looking to improve a product. This happens in virtually every reddit community, generally they are downvoted or banned by the mods. Since this community exists, it's probably the largest user pool where sighted individuals can find non sighted / vision impaired individuals.
Your time is your time. You have every right to say no or pass. Additionally, people interviewing are looking for general trends, not a specific thing. There's no interview where someone tells about their experience, then the interviewer cackles maniacally and goes and creates a billion dollar business off the idea. It's about hearing many different perspectives and coming up with an idea after hearing them. It's going to be tough to "monetize" your experience, as in the end no two people have the same experiences or perspectives.
Winnmark [OP] 2 points 2y ago
*Very* eloquent my friend.
Zapacunotres 2 points 2y ago
Hello, I'm new to the subreddit. (Just curious) I agree 100%. The least they could do is offer to pay, I hope these companies fix that.
Drunken_Idaho 2 points 2y ago
I am with you on this one. These posts are just people looking for a free, feel good project. There are enough people taking advantage as it is. I say remove the posts.
If they offer payment though, leave them up. I did an interview from a post on this sub and got compensated for it.
I respect that there are some sincere attempts to get feedback but the vast majority are junk.
If they offer payment though, leave them up. I did an interview from a post on this sub and got compensated for it.
I respect that there are some sincere attempts to get feedback but the vast majority are junk.
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