Blind and Visually Impaired Community
↑
10
↓
I'm a game developer and I'd like to make my game accessible. (self.Blind)
submitted by jaybill
Hello! I am an indie game developer and I'm working on a space trading sim that's more or less exclusively text based. Think dwarf fortress level crunchy, but with even less visual UI.
It takes the POV of sitting at the helm of the ship looking at the instrument panel, 75% of which is the terminal screen and the remainder of which is a bunch of readouts for things like location, remaining fuel, warning lights, etc. So it is graphical, but only in the barest sense of the word. Early prototypes actually ran in a literal terminal window.
I'd really like to make this game not only accessible, but awesome, for people with blindness and vision impairment. I'd like to get a sense of how you play games now and what you'd ideally like to see in this sort of game. I've looked at some screen readers, mainly JAWS and NVDA, but I was wondering if one tends to use a given screen reader exclusively or if you use different readers for different purposes. So far I've found that NVDA is open source and well-documented, while JAWS seems more popular but less extensible. I'm also prepared to write or integrate something myself if need be.
Also, if you've got ideas for other kinds of nonvisual feedback, like audio cues, haptic feedback via a controller, etc. Maybe there's other devices I don't even know about. I'm fairly early in the development of the UI, and I'd really like to make sure it's accessible from the ground up as I go.
I'm really interested to hear what kinds of things help you play games, what your common struggles and annoyances are. I'd also like to invite anyone that's interested into the alpha/beta phase when I get there. Thanks in advance!
It takes the POV of sitting at the helm of the ship looking at the instrument panel, 75% of which is the terminal screen and the remainder of which is a bunch of readouts for things like location, remaining fuel, warning lights, etc. So it is graphical, but only in the barest sense of the word. Early prototypes actually ran in a literal terminal window.
I'd really like to make this game not only accessible, but awesome, for people with blindness and vision impairment. I'd like to get a sense of how you play games now and what you'd ideally like to see in this sort of game. I've looked at some screen readers, mainly JAWS and NVDA, but I was wondering if one tends to use a given screen reader exclusively or if you use different readers for different purposes. So far I've found that NVDA is open source and well-documented, while JAWS seems more popular but less extensible. I'm also prepared to write or integrate something myself if need be.
Also, if you've got ideas for other kinds of nonvisual feedback, like audio cues, haptic feedback via a controller, etc. Maybe there's other devices I don't even know about. I'm fairly early in the development of the UI, and I'd really like to make sure it's accessible from the ground up as I go.
I'm really interested to hear what kinds of things help you play games, what your common struggles and annoyances are. I'd also like to invite anyone that's interested into the alpha/beta phase when I get there. Thanks in advance!
Superfreq2 2 points 2y ago
You may want to try forum.audiogames.net for more feedback, though it looks like you've already gotten lots of it here already.
Check out "Warsim, Kingdom of Aslona" and "Code 7" for examples of text based games done right.
Check out "Warsim, Kingdom of Aslona" and "Code 7" for examples of text based games done right.
Laser_Lens_4 2 points 2y ago
First off, this is something I'd be willing to pay money for if it's good.
​
As for making it accessible, I can imagine a few options. If you don't want to run just a terminal, then perhaps you can map out various keystrokes which perform functions: f for fuel, w for warnings, etc. Have some way to bring up a text entry for command input. It would be a bit more immersive than a simple terminal window, and it might open up a path for using joysticks or custom hardware (like those people who build cockpits for Elite Dangerous and such). If you wanted to get really fancy, you could forego a screen reader and hire a VA to read out content, but that's going to get expensive fast. Still, just throwing ideas out there. This is a game that I would want to play.
​
As for making it accessible, I can imagine a few options. If you don't want to run just a terminal, then perhaps you can map out various keystrokes which perform functions: f for fuel, w for warnings, etc. Have some way to bring up a text entry for command input. It would be a bit more immersive than a simple terminal window, and it might open up a path for using joysticks or custom hardware (like those people who build cockpits for Elite Dangerous and such). If you wanted to get really fancy, you could forego a screen reader and hire a VA to read out content, but that's going to get expensive fast. Still, just throwing ideas out there. This is a game that I would want to play.
jaybill [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Excellent, and excellent ideas! So yeah, after reading some of these comments I'm thinking that I could probably make a fairly immersive "command prompt" based interface with hotkeys for the important stuff you want to get at frequently. So basically a beefed up terminal, but one that wouldn't require modification for a screen reader.
BlindGuyNW 2 points 2y ago
This sounds like my kind of thing. I second that terminal UIs are generally accessible if done with some attention to detail, but it depends a bit on what kind of interface you envision.
IF you envision an ASCII art-style setup where the ship instruments are drawn (pseudo) graphically, that might cause issues. ON the other hand, if it's possible to access info via text displays even at the expense of emersion, say, having a readout of "Fuel: 90%" rather than a graphical gauge, that would help a great deal.
I'm more than happy to talk about this stuff in more depth, as this kind of game is definitely my sort of thing.
IF you envision an ASCII art-style setup where the ship instruments are drawn (pseudo) graphically, that might cause issues. ON the other hand, if it's possible to access info via text displays even at the expense of emersion, say, having a readout of "Fuel: 90%" rather than a graphical gauge, that would help a great deal.
I'm more than happy to talk about this stuff in more depth, as this kind of game is definitely my sort of thing.
jaybill [OP] 1 points 2y ago
See this comment: https://old.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/jr9v66/im_a_game_developer_and_id_like_to_make_my_game/gbui4s5/
But what about in addition to that, being able to type something like `info fuel` and that's how you'd get that data and something like `info alerts` to get warnings
But what about in addition to that, being able to type something like `info fuel` and that's how you'd get that data and something like `info alerts` to get warnings
Amonwilde 2 points 2y ago
Sounds like a cool project. There are some audiogames you might try to get a handle on these interfaces. Try playing King of Dragon Pass on iOS with Voiceover, maybe, or A Dark Room on iOS.
CloudyBeep 2 points 2y ago
I second A Dark Room, but only the iOS app (and maybe the Android app, but definitely not other platforms) is accessible.
Winnmark 2 points 2y ago
I mean... If it's just text based, and at one point you had it running in a terminal window, can't you just make a setting that would switch it into "terminal mode" or "GUI mode"?
Reminds me of event0 without an environment.
Both Jaws and NVDA can work with the Windows command prompt.
EDIT: now that I'm thinking about it, that would actually be a pretty cool game mode.
Reminds me of event0 without an environment.
Both Jaws and NVDA can work with the Windows command prompt.
EDIT: now that I'm thinking about it, that would actually be a pretty cool game mode.
Laser_Lens_4 2 points 2y ago
How do you get jaws to work on a command line? Last time I tried, it was unusable.
RJHand 2 points 2y ago
Unusable?
What version? Works for me. Though I mainly use a mac with voiceover.
On windows, type windows R then type cmd and hit enter, should bring you to the command prompt from there.
What version? Works for me. Though I mainly use a mac with voiceover.
On windows, type windows R then type cmd and hit enter, should bring you to the command prompt from there.
jaybill [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Okay, so what about an interface similar to a text adventure? So you have something akin to a shell prompt where you could type commands, like `planet list range 30` and then you get a numbered list of planets `planet 5 describe` gets you general details on that planet. `planet 5 describe economy` gets you economic data specifically, etc.
Possibly there could also be different 'screens' that you get to with function keys that would only take specific commands, so as to make them shorter. So on the planet list screen you just do `list` and `describe 5` or something.
What about something along those lines?
Possibly there could also be different 'screens' that you get to with function keys that would only take specific commands, so as to make them shorter. So on the planet list screen you just do `list` and `describe 5` or something.
What about something along those lines?
BlindGuyNW 3 points 2y ago
That’s an interesting idea. I have been getting back into text adventures lately, so it appeals generally speaking. Perhaps you could go a bit farther and recognize abbreviations, or do completion, such that you could type the first few letters of a name or what have you and not have to remember how it was spelled necessarily. Generally, accessing information by text names is much friendlier than using numbers, so I’d prefer to hear about planet Vega rather than planet number 53. For an example of the perks and pitfalls of this kind of thing, look at the "1oom," project, and its command-line implementation of Master of Orion. In particular, the ship combat display in that version is not ideal, because it is a change from the general aesthetic, as it displays the grid using ASCII, which is a little difficult for people using many screen readers to figure out.
jaybill [OP] 2 points 2y ago
I was imagining something like
`list planets`
which returns
`1 vega secundi`
`2 fleeborp`
`3 parn-fargle`
`4 bladgr'aab blerfingbarth`
etcetera
and then you could type `describe planet 4`. So you'd still be interacting with a named planet, but you wouldn't have to type `describe bladgr'aab blerfingbarth` (some of the planet names get pretty long)
`list planets`
which returns
`1 vega secundi`
`2 fleeborp`
`3 parn-fargle`
`4 bladgr'aab blerfingbarth`
etcetera
and then you could type `describe planet 4`. So you'd still be interacting with a named planet, but you wouldn't have to type `describe bladgr'aab blerfingbarth` (some of the planet names get pretty long)
BlindGuyNW 3 points 2y ago
That's fair. Or maybe set things up so that the default assumption is that you're going to want data on a specific planet, such that you can just type "4," immediately after doing a list. I like that because it minimizes the need for longer-form commands, though they can certainly exist.
Winnmark 2 points 2y ago
This sounds good. Maybe you could leverage the up arrow function that's present in, for example, the Linux terminal to recall previous commands or predetermined commands?
jaybill [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Absolutely. Make it function like a shell.
RJHand 1 points 2y ago
Sounds cool. Almost like coding in a linux console window or something. Gives me ubuntu vibes lol.
jaybill [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Yeah, I mean, it would basically be like controlling a space ship from a command prompt. Maybe it could even support writing scripts!
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc • HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.