Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Electronic Walking Stick to Visually Impaired People - A modern and compact replacement to Walking Sticks (self.Blind)
submitted by dree_not
[removed]
-shacklebolt- 13 points 2y ago
No, that's a terrible idea.
Many electronic object-sensing devices exist, this is nothing novel. None have gained any widespread use among the blind community. More importantly, *none* replace the white cane.
A white cane is used for more than detecting just objects. It's also used for staying on paths, finding doors, stairs, detecting drop offs and other hazards like uneven sidewalk or potholes, curbs, etc in addition to letting other people (especially drivers!) know that you're blind. The google translate of your article references things like embarrassment (people shouldn't be ashamed of using a cane, and shouldn't risk their safety by not using one!) and detecting traffic light conditions to cross independently (blind people don't rely on the traffic light condition alone to determine when to cross, but the pattern of traffic establishing that it's actually safe to cross.)
The fact that you call it a cane replacement tells me you've done virtually no research on how blind people travel and the purposes a white cane serves.
There's mountains of well-intentioned vaporware "for" blind people. Much of it tried to address problems that don't exist, or that are better solved by another tool. Often these projects reflect limited research on what the device needs to do, the feasibility of actually developing it in the promised budget, and if the users actually want or need it.
Many electronic object-sensing devices exist, this is nothing novel. None have gained any widespread use among the blind community. More importantly, *none* replace the white cane.
A white cane is used for more than detecting just objects. It's also used for staying on paths, finding doors, stairs, detecting drop offs and other hazards like uneven sidewalk or potholes, curbs, etc in addition to letting other people (especially drivers!) know that you're blind. The google translate of your article references things like embarrassment (people shouldn't be ashamed of using a cane, and shouldn't risk their safety by not using one!) and detecting traffic light conditions to cross independently (blind people don't rely on the traffic light condition alone to determine when to cross, but the pattern of traffic establishing that it's actually safe to cross.)
The fact that you call it a cane replacement tells me you've done virtually no research on how blind people travel and the purposes a white cane serves.
There's mountains of well-intentioned vaporware "for" blind people. Much of it tried to address problems that don't exist, or that are better solved by another tool. Often these projects reflect limited research on what the device needs to do, the feasibility of actually developing it in the promised budget, and if the users actually want or need it.
Drop9Reddit 5 points 2y ago
Ill make the argument against it even easier lol. What happens when the battery dies
dree_not [OP] -6 points 2y ago
I have two visually impaired people on my family. One being completely blind. The other is 20 years old and he struggled many times because he would never use a cane since he doesn't want people to notice it. He has a hard time to cross streets and it was thinking on him that I thought about this project.
Please before making a comment like yours consider people are not identical. Even if they have the same condition they are not the same. And telling how people should feel about their own condition is kinda insensitive.
And I don't get the first part of your comment since it would still be possible to find paths, doors, stairs and everything you said with more precision than with the cane.
Have a good day.
Please before making a comment like yours consider people are not identical. Even if they have the same condition they are not the same. And telling how people should feel about their own condition is kinda insensitive.
And I don't get the first part of your comment since it would still be possible to find paths, doors, stairs and everything you said with more precision than with the cane.
Have a good day.
Amonwilde 5 points 2y ago
Yeah, some people could get use out of this. But there are a lot of people who have the idea to do an electronic cane, and not much to show for it so far, so scepticism is warranted.
impablomations 1 points 2y ago
> more precision than with the cane.
I highly doubt that. How will it differentiate between a broken paving slab causing a trip hazard and some litter? They will both be detected by your 'sensor' (whatever that is, you don't even say what it will be - laser? IR?)
A cane is an extension of the body. It is extremely precise.
>The other is 20 years old and he struggled many times because he would never use a cane since he doesn't want people to notice it.
Then sorry to be rude, but he's a fucking idiot.
I highly doubt that. How will it differentiate between a broken paving slab causing a trip hazard and some litter? They will both be detected by your 'sensor' (whatever that is, you don't even say what it will be - laser? IR?)
A cane is an extension of the body. It is extremely precise.
>The other is 20 years old and he struggled many times because he would never use a cane since he doesn't want people to notice it.
Then sorry to be rude, but he's a fucking idiot.
Laser_Lens_4 4 points 2y ago
Let's address the elephant in the room. It's called a cane not a walking stick.
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Now let's discuss why this is a bad idea. You mention using a distance sensor. Most of the ways that's been accomplished is by using sonar. If you want to get an idea of the reliability, try the Buzzclip or Sunu Band. Both are real products that you can purchase, and both are full of problems. They are also not cane replacements. You can detect walls and doorways, but a cane provides feedback that a sensor could not. How rough is the ground? What's the incline? Are there leaves on the path? Are there trip hazards low to the ground?
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Lastly, creating a device that enables shame of one's disability is problematic at best. There is no replacement for the cane, and if you're embarrassed to use it, that's a problem on you. A cane allows you to navigate independently, and it also lets people nearby know that you are blind. That way they won't beat the shit out of you if you walk into them by accident. A cane is a symbol of independence for the blind. Not shame.
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It's pretty clear that you've done very little research about this. You're upset over our comments, but I can guarantee you that no blind cane user will think that this is a good idea, because it's not.
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Edit: Sunu Band and Buzzclip cost $300US and $250US respectively. How do you expect to sell this device for $5-10, especially if you claim that it can read text and detect traffic lights? I can't read the website, but this info alone tells me that you've done no research at all.
​
Now let's discuss why this is a bad idea. You mention using a distance sensor. Most of the ways that's been accomplished is by using sonar. If you want to get an idea of the reliability, try the Buzzclip or Sunu Band. Both are real products that you can purchase, and both are full of problems. They are also not cane replacements. You can detect walls and doorways, but a cane provides feedback that a sensor could not. How rough is the ground? What's the incline? Are there leaves on the path? Are there trip hazards low to the ground?
​
Lastly, creating a device that enables shame of one's disability is problematic at best. There is no replacement for the cane, and if you're embarrassed to use it, that's a problem on you. A cane allows you to navigate independently, and it also lets people nearby know that you are blind. That way they won't beat the shit out of you if you walk into them by accident. A cane is a symbol of independence for the blind. Not shame.
​
It's pretty clear that you've done very little research about this. You're upset over our comments, but I can guarantee you that no blind cane user will think that this is a good idea, because it's not.
​
Edit: Sunu Band and Buzzclip cost $300US and $250US respectively. How do you expect to sell this device for $5-10, especially if you claim that it can read text and detect traffic lights? I can't read the website, but this info alone tells me that you've done no research at all.
dree_not [OP] -1 points 2y ago
I'm a computer engineer and I've worked with electronic components since I was 16.
About the name, it depends on where you live. English is a language use for many countries in many ways.
I never said someone should be ashamed of using it. I said it draws unnecessary attention and it is really sad people are judging how other people should feel about their own disabilities. The main reason I say it is because I have a familiar who is very shy and he does not use it and sometimes he hit things.
"that's a problem on you". This was very rude. If you don't want an alternative for you then other people can't have it too?
The page I linked shows a 3D model of it with one image of it open showing the components and all details.
I would not sell it. I'm talking about giving all my work for free and covering only the costs of the pieces.
Besides I'm not visually impaired I'm severe depressed and dependent of medicine. I thought of doing something good would make me feel better but I've only found a rude community, judging others and giving negative non-constructive commentaries.
I don't know your ages, but I'd guess you are Seniors or close to it and have a negative view on technology in general.
But you all got what you want, I'm not doing it anymore. I hope you are happy. Have a good night
About the name, it depends on where you live. English is a language use for many countries in many ways.
I never said someone should be ashamed of using it. I said it draws unnecessary attention and it is really sad people are judging how other people should feel about their own disabilities. The main reason I say it is because I have a familiar who is very shy and he does not use it and sometimes he hit things.
"that's a problem on you". This was very rude. If you don't want an alternative for you then other people can't have it too?
The page I linked shows a 3D model of it with one image of it open showing the components and all details.
I would not sell it. I'm talking about giving all my work for free and covering only the costs of the pieces.
Besides I'm not visually impaired I'm severe depressed and dependent of medicine. I thought of doing something good would make me feel better but I've only found a rude community, judging others and giving negative non-constructive commentaries.
I don't know your ages, but I'd guess you are Seniors or close to it and have a negative view on technology in general.
But you all got what you want, I'm not doing it anymore. I hope you are happy. Have a good night
[deleted] 2 points 2y ago
[deleted]
_bassJunkie 1 points 2y ago
Hi, I have an idea. Maybe a device could be an accessory for a white cane? I haven't thought this one out myself, and I know this is a bit different from your initial idea of a cane replacement, but maybe an accessory you can hook on your cane could introduce extra features. Maybe you could brainstorm something in that way? I like how you want to be engaged and your intentions are good. Maybe need to go back to the drawing board because you could introduce something new, cool and useful.
Laser_Lens_4 1 points 2y ago
That’s great. I’m happy that you’re so interested in electronics.
I’m bilingual. I’m aware that objects are called different things in different languages, but right now we’re speaking English. In English, it’s called a cane.
I agree. It is sad that others judge blind cane users. That’s their problem, and it reflects badly on their upbringing. They should feel ashamed for judging someone who can’t see. Unfortunately, that doesn’t change the fact that many of us do need to use a cane.
Now you’re putting words in my mouth. The problem with your device isn’t what it does. The problem is that you’re promoting it as a cane replacement and as an enabler for continued shame and ableism.
You probably should have included a more detailed description and feature list in your post. Many screen readers are set up to only read one language, even if the user is bilingual, such as myself.
Selling components at cost would be great for your family and community. Doing that to sell to a larger, global, market of blind people will become unsustainable very fast.
I’m very sorry about that. Depression is a real struggle, but we’ve been almost literally spelling out the reasons that this will not work.
I’m 24. Now you’re being rude.
That’s entirely up to you. My suggestion is that you conduct more research so that you can refine your idea and make it viable for more blind people. Passive-aggressive bitching rarely helps anyone.
I’m bilingual. I’m aware that objects are called different things in different languages, but right now we’re speaking English. In English, it’s called a cane.
I agree. It is sad that others judge blind cane users. That’s their problem, and it reflects badly on their upbringing. They should feel ashamed for judging someone who can’t see. Unfortunately, that doesn’t change the fact that many of us do need to use a cane.
Now you’re putting words in my mouth. The problem with your device isn’t what it does. The problem is that you’re promoting it as a cane replacement and as an enabler for continued shame and ableism.
You probably should have included a more detailed description and feature list in your post. Many screen readers are set up to only read one language, even if the user is bilingual, such as myself.
Selling components at cost would be great for your family and community. Doing that to sell to a larger, global, market of blind people will become unsustainable very fast.
I’m very sorry about that. Depression is a real struggle, but we’ve been almost literally spelling out the reasons that this will not work.
I’m 24. Now you’re being rude.
That’s entirely up to you. My suggestion is that you conduct more research so that you can refine your idea and make it viable for more blind people. Passive-aggressive bitching rarely helps anyone.
Superfreq2 3 points 2y ago
I'm sorry but no.
I will not put my life in the hands of AI in 2020.
Nor do I think that enabling someone's belief that blindness is an embarrassment is healthy.
I would never, ever use this without also using a cane or dog. And I think it is criminally irresponsible to suggest it unless the user has good enough site to still function safely without it.
I understand that your situation is different because of where you live, and that you want to help, but this is not the way to do it.
I will not put my life in the hands of AI in 2020.
Nor do I think that enabling someone's belief that blindness is an embarrassment is healthy.
I would never, ever use this without also using a cane or dog. And I think it is criminally irresponsible to suggest it unless the user has good enough site to still function safely without it.
I understand that your situation is different because of where you live, and that you want to help, but this is not the way to do it.
dree_not [OP] -1 points 2y ago
It is not AI, not even close. I'll not respond the rest, I already did to the others. And as I said you got what you want. I'm not doing it anymore. Have a good night
BenandGracie 3 points 2y ago
I'll stick with my cane.
PungentMushrooms 3 points 2y ago
This is not an upgrade.
Seems like it removes a lot of functions that a good old-fashioned white cane already has. For example, detecting small drop offs like street curbs, clearly identifying the user is being blind and the ability to identify surface types.
This startup is well intentioned and I appreciate that but I can almost guarantee you that most blind people would much prefer a white cane
Seems like it removes a lot of functions that a good old-fashioned white cane already has. For example, detecting small drop offs like street curbs, clearly identifying the user is being blind and the ability to identify surface types.
This startup is well intentioned and I appreciate that but I can almost guarantee you that most blind people would much prefer a white cane
dree_not [OP] 0 points 2y ago
It can read texts, detect traffic lights and crosswalks and detect moving objects
dree_not [OP] -2 points 2y ago
Plus they cost $5 and $10
bjayernaeiy 2 points 2y ago
Lol how do you plan for it to cost $5-10 if it can do all of the things you claim it can do? Other redditors have already explained why this is a terrible idea so this is what I'm most curious for now. The SunuBand, basically with the same concept as yours, costs upwards of hundreds of dollars, how do you plan for it to be just $5?
dree_not [OP] 0 points 2y ago
The only valid arguments I've got where not having how to feel how solid is the ground and notifying people that you are visually impaired. Everything else was free rate.
It doesn't matter anymore how I would do it. Don't worry.
I'll try to make one to my familiar who doesn't use a cane and I'll not follow up with the project.
It doesn't matter anymore how I would do it. Don't worry.
I'll try to make one to my familiar who doesn't use a cane and I'll not follow up with the project.
bjayernaeiy 2 points 2y ago
Sure
dree_not [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Well since people are really hating it I'll make one for each of my family members who are blind and remove the project
bjayernaeiy 2 points 2y ago
Good luck!
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