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What improvements would you like to see in video games for blind people and the visually impaired? (self.Blind)
submitted by [deleted]
This is a follow up on my last post in your subreddit, found here: $1
I am working towards having a shooter game developed with no graphics, just a black screen and a new way of designing sound. This new way is hard to figure out for someone who can already see, so it's very important that I get expert advice, from people who already play games using sound only. And people in general who navigate through life using sound.
There are a lot of things most of us take for granted when playing games. We can see the enemy and predict what they are capable of because of the equipment they carry, how large they are, how fast they move and so forth. All this information has to become sound.
Since all things visual will now have to become sound, I'm very interested in all ideas on what games are typically missing when it comes to audio cues.
The technology to paint an auditory picture of the environment with echo, sound mixing for distance and all that already exists, but to my knowledge, no one has actually gone all the way to make a game that sounds as good as the best games look. That's what I want to achieve. When I play Call Of Duty Warzone with my eyes closed, it's impossible to win. Anyone should stand a chance of winning.
One thing I imagine when your character walks into a wall to the sides, is a sound on the correct side, where you hear the clothing sliding against the wall. If it's your shoulder, the sound will be higher up in the three dimensional sound mix for headphones, than if it's your knee. If it's your knee, you know you don't have cover and you might want to crouch. When we crouch in real life, we hear differently because the ears are now lower in altitude. Another challenge is to create some sort of a focused hearing mechanism, so that when you aim, the sound changes, or if a grenade lands too close to the player, the sound of that bouncing around would be amplified. In that case, you better know what direction to run in. If it's inside a building, you should know that there is a wall or a hallway which will affect your decision making. The bouncing sound, when reflected correctly, should be able to tell you about the environment. A wall has this thick reflection sound and a hallway has this thin reflection sound. If it's thin on the left side, you run to the left. Most games have graphical indicators with a picture of a grenade, which has to be replaced with sound.
Otherwise, what sort of a design would make for the ultimate user experience? If you had unlimited budget and could have anything you want created, what would you ask for?
Thank you for reading and enjoy your Sunday out there!
I am working towards having a shooter game developed with no graphics, just a black screen and a new way of designing sound. This new way is hard to figure out for someone who can already see, so it's very important that I get expert advice, from people who already play games using sound only. And people in general who navigate through life using sound.
There are a lot of things most of us take for granted when playing games. We can see the enemy and predict what they are capable of because of the equipment they carry, how large they are, how fast they move and so forth. All this information has to become sound.
Since all things visual will now have to become sound, I'm very interested in all ideas on what games are typically missing when it comes to audio cues.
The technology to paint an auditory picture of the environment with echo, sound mixing for distance and all that already exists, but to my knowledge, no one has actually gone all the way to make a game that sounds as good as the best games look. That's what I want to achieve. When I play Call Of Duty Warzone with my eyes closed, it's impossible to win. Anyone should stand a chance of winning.
One thing I imagine when your character walks into a wall to the sides, is a sound on the correct side, where you hear the clothing sliding against the wall. If it's your shoulder, the sound will be higher up in the three dimensional sound mix for headphones, than if it's your knee. If it's your knee, you know you don't have cover and you might want to crouch. When we crouch in real life, we hear differently because the ears are now lower in altitude. Another challenge is to create some sort of a focused hearing mechanism, so that when you aim, the sound changes, or if a grenade lands too close to the player, the sound of that bouncing around would be amplified. In that case, you better know what direction to run in. If it's inside a building, you should know that there is a wall or a hallway which will affect your decision making. The bouncing sound, when reflected correctly, should be able to tell you about the environment. A wall has this thick reflection sound and a hallway has this thin reflection sound. If it's thin on the left side, you run to the left. Most games have graphical indicators with a picture of a grenade, which has to be replaced with sound.
Otherwise, what sort of a design would make for the ultimate user experience? If you had unlimited budget and could have anything you want created, what would you ask for?
Thank you for reading and enjoy your Sunday out there!
BlindFuryC 6 points 2y ago
I'm not going to give a massive discourse on this since I was only dropping by and saw this and thought it deserved a response. I like the sound of it.
There are some audio games out there already that cover some of this, though they miss out on some of the finer details that you mentioned. i.e I don't believe any of them cover explosives, and height related cover. I worked on one with someone once but it never came to fruition.
Taking ideas from other games: Metal Gear Solid 3 had a specific sound for the flamethrower troopers that inhabited the mountain area in game, and you could always tell when one of them was nearby by the clanking they made. Maybe you could use that for special weapons troopers.
Similarly, you could adjust the footsteps somehow when switching between walking and crouching, if you wanted to build in full 3D aiming. I believe most audiogames at this point only incorporate aiming in horizontal space.
You might also need to adjust sounds from higher up as well, as in, being fired down on from a rooftop, etc, should sound different to being shot at from ground level, and again that should be different to being fired at from below.
Sorry, that was just a smattering of thoughts. Hope that some of the ideas are useful in some way
There are some audio games out there already that cover some of this, though they miss out on some of the finer details that you mentioned. i.e I don't believe any of them cover explosives, and height related cover. I worked on one with someone once but it never came to fruition.
Taking ideas from other games: Metal Gear Solid 3 had a specific sound for the flamethrower troopers that inhabited the mountain area in game, and you could always tell when one of them was nearby by the clanking they made. Maybe you could use that for special weapons troopers.
Similarly, you could adjust the footsteps somehow when switching between walking and crouching, if you wanted to build in full 3D aiming. I believe most audiogames at this point only incorporate aiming in horizontal space.
You might also need to adjust sounds from higher up as well, as in, being fired down on from a rooftop, etc, should sound different to being shot at from ground level, and again that should be different to being fired at from below.
Sorry, that was just a smattering of thoughts. Hope that some of the ideas are useful in some way
[deleted] [OP] 3 points 2y ago
Your input is greatly appreciated. You bring up some things I hadn't thought of yet. I did a little testing in Unreal Engine where the sound changes depending on whether you crouch or walk, but that was a very simple setup, footstep sound and backpack/clothing sound. If you walk it's louder, and softer if you crouch, and of course faster if you run. Something a real professional would achieve much better with some of the middleware like FMOD or Wwise. How was the setting you worked in?
I love the idea of 3D aiming and especially how weapons sounds would have to sound based on altitude. More surface reflections if one is closer to the ground and also if the bullets are flying out of the gun behind cover, so you know if you're engaging an easier target or not. Especially if someone is standing on a metal roof, that has got to sound more metallic, than if they are standing in water, mud or grass.
I love the idea of 3D aiming and especially how weapons sounds would have to sound based on altitude. More surface reflections if one is closer to the ground and also if the bullets are flying out of the gun behind cover, so you know if you're engaging an easier target or not. Especially if someone is standing on a metal roof, that has got to sound more metallic, than if they are standing in water, mud or grass.
fastenedbrick25 3 points 2y ago
There's an audio shooter called undead assault. Check it out to understand some fundamentals. For example, have button set report players current location, a button that reports player health, and most importantly make the game accessible with screen readers like NVDA and JAWS. I can't tell you how annoying it is when I have to use a game's built-in screen reader when I already have one on my system that's customized to my liking.
[deleted] [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Thank you! I'm glad I asked, because I didn't know you could have screen readers inside of a game. I can see how that would limit the experience, having to set something extra up. It should be easy enough to incorporate all screen readers, or at least those everyone is using.
What do you mean by having button set report players current location and a button that reports player health?
I am listening to undead assault on YouTube, the sound design is different, not so lush and chaotic as some of these AAA games use, then again, they are geared towards a visual experience.
Is in game narrative important?
What do you mean by having button set report players current location and a button that reports player health?
I am listening to undead assault on YouTube, the sound design is different, not so lush and chaotic as some of these AAA games use, then again, they are geared towards a visual experience.
Is in game narrative important?
fastenedbrick25 1 points 2y ago
So, in Undead assault, you start with 60 HP. To check your health, press "H" key and the user's screen reader says "60". Undead works on a grid so if I want to know my current location, all I gotta do is press "C" key and my screen reader gives my (x, y) coordinates. Also include a locations index for special guns, powerups, doors, and other things of interest. For example, let's say there's an AK47 at (34, 69) and my current location is (40, 70).I just check my current location and I know I need to move 1 down and 6 left.
Narrative is up to you, but make it like an audiobook and not like a movie.
Narrative is up to you, but make it like an audiobook and not like a movie.
[deleted] [OP] 1 points 2y ago
That is very interesting. I envision some sort of an audio setup for location of importance. In Warzone, there is this chest with useful items that emits sound for example. Definitely agree on an audiobook and not a movie. The narrative of the player can be mixed so that it's either thoughts or dialogue. Thoughts would be dead centre and sort of muffled, and the dialogue clearer. Squad also has a localised chat, so you hear where your teammates are when they are communication over the mic. Might also be cool if you have to hush when approaching the enemy. As in, the chat could leak into the world.
fastenedbrick25 2 points 2y ago
Hell yes on voice chat. Although most blind gamers use teamspeak or discord, it's still a great idea if you make it the way you described. Back to my example with the AK, adding a sound effect to the object is a great idea, but it shouldnt be the only way to find it. You can set up a button such as "D" to report the location of the object that is currently in earshot. Controller support would also be greatly appreciated..
Wooden_Suit5580 2 points 2y ago
If you had an unlimited budget and could put anything into the game I would vote for an audio glossary. If you get a chance check out the last of us part two on the PlayStation platform. They have a section that the player can go to and learn the sounds of all of the interact doubles in the game. I thought that was pretty awesome when I played it.
[deleted] [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Here is a summary of the replies so far:Foley stands for character sounds, such as footsteps, clothing and equipment.
* Explosives indicators
* Height related cover
* Foley to define the load out and type of soldier
* Adaptive/dynamic/procedural foley to give away soldier movement state. Design animation based sounds.
* Unique and distinctive handling sounds for all weapons to make it easier to discern your own, your team and enemies load outs and capabilities. Switch weapons sounds.
* 3D based sound to read the environment to discern where geometry is, how large it is and what shape it has, especially for indoors. Environmental sound design to make the landscape be of value for game play.
* Game play testers.
* Full 3D aiming
* 3D based positioning for audio elements and events
* A button for sonar, to read important elements, such as pickups. Locations index for pickups, doors and other things of interest.
* Localised chat like in Squad, as well as radio chat for longer distances. All chat will still bleed into the environment for a more immersive and tactical gameplay.
* Controller support
* Audio glossary to learn the sound of all intractable and other necessary things.
* Screen readers support.
* Narrative, if used, like an audio book and not a movie.
* Explosives indicators
* Height related cover
* Foley to define the load out and type of soldier
* Adaptive/dynamic/procedural foley to give away soldier movement state. Design animation based sounds.
* Unique and distinctive handling sounds for all weapons to make it easier to discern your own, your team and enemies load outs and capabilities. Switch weapons sounds.
* 3D based sound to read the environment to discern where geometry is, how large it is and what shape it has, especially for indoors. Environmental sound design to make the landscape be of value for game play.
* Game play testers.
* Full 3D aiming
* 3D based positioning for audio elements and events
* A button for sonar, to read important elements, such as pickups. Locations index for pickups, doors and other things of interest.
* Localised chat like in Squad, as well as radio chat for longer distances. All chat will still bleed into the environment for a more immersive and tactical gameplay.
* Controller support
* Audio glossary to learn the sound of all intractable and other necessary things.
* Screen readers support.
* Narrative, if used, like an audio book and not a movie.
fastenedbrick25 1 points 2y ago
I can test the game on windows and Linux when you are ready. Shoot me a pm and I'll give you my email to keep in touch.
[deleted] [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Thank you, that is indeed on the RoadMap. Any ideas which platforms I should prioritise? How do people with impaired or no vision prefer playing games?
FantasticGlove 1 points 2y ago
Windows please. The only people i see using linux are blind programmers. Windows is the main thing for me and a lot of blind people.
fastenedbrick25 1 points 2y ago
Well the 2 most popular are windows and iphone. However, I am an advocate for making Linux accessible to the blind. Adding an audio game to it might drum up interest.
Legend010331 1 points 2y ago
All of those are great ideas. Another one could be if an enemy is walking or running you hear the speed and weight of the footsteps change. The weight of the footsteps could also apply to jumping, and advanced movements such as sliding or clambering. If you plan to have several different weapons then each should have its own specific sound when in the hand just to denote which weapon is being held. For the player position in a landscape, ambient noise echoing or being reflected off of walls or cliffs would be great in order to know what direction the obstacle is in and how far away it is. Stuff like the sound of gun fire reflecting off walls would help too. If you're gonna use that though be sure that it is noticable that it is an echo and not the original gun fire as the player may get confused as to where the original gun fire is coming from. Sorry I know this is kind of all over the place but I started writing it and more and more ideas kept coming to me. Hope this helps
[deleted] [OP] 1 points 2y ago
This is not all over the place in my mind, it all makes perfect sense. I just came across some new audio programming stuff, that is supposed to change the basic sound files based on a number of parameters. I am even considering synthesised sounds, so that you have a totally dry original and then treat that according to the environment in real time. And yes, definitely different handling sounds for different weapons. I want the player to be able to know if he or she is carrying a shotgun or a rocket launcher, as well as what the enemies are carrying. Granted we are talking a lot of subtleties here, but with enough training by playing the game, it should eventually become second nature.
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