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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2020 - 12 - 05 - ID#k7gb2g
68
Is the term “blind playthrough” offensive? (self.Blind)
submitted by NyanMudkip
Hi everyone, recently the gaming community has been upset that the streaming site, Twitch, removed the tag “blind playthrough” because it was not considered inclusive. Many people believe removing that tag was completely unnecessary. If you don’t know what a blind playthrough is, it is playing through a game without knowing any spoilers. As someone who isn’t blind, I’m very curious to know if members of the blind community find this term or other phrases such as “I’m going in blind” offensive or not. Thank you!
Laser_Lens_4 40 points 2y ago
I find the atrocious accessibility of their app far more offensive than a simple word, but that's just me. I'm not fond of people getting offended on my behalf.
RapperNev 6 points 2y ago
Lol! Forgot about this, their website is atrocious also and its why I never saw a Vinesauce stream live yet.
Fix your goddamn website before you start trying to act like you're being "inclusive" or you might just end up showing how non inclusive you are.
Cecil_Hersch 2 points 2y ago
Their website is a pain to navigate. Sometimes i cant see stuff i search and they dun got any ARIA. I rather they spend their resources on fixing their app then removing the "blind playthrough" tag
LordZeebee 2 points 2y ago
I'm genuinely just curious, what aspects of the Twitch website make it inaccessible? I study game development in college and sometimes help with similar creative endeavors so it'd be great to have some examples of what not to do since so much of this comment section is talking about it. From a sighted perspective the website seems pretty plain and simple.


If it'd be a hassle to list it all or you just don't feel you have the time and energy i completely understand, i'm just a stranger on the internet :) Just felt it'd be useful to hear first-hand.
_aidan 34 points 2y ago
The *bigger* problem is when an ablest group is offended about something when the disabled group isn't. Its misrepresentation.
bradley22 6 points 2y ago
It really is!

It’s the whole people being offended for you thing.
OliverKennett 29 points 2y ago
No. Blind is a state not a person.
narfarnst 16 points 2y ago
It seems about as offensive as 'blind date' to me. In other words, not. Some may get irked by it but I don't.

I think it's a decent word to describe the situation. Did they replace it with another tag? I'm curious what they would consider a good substitute.
ImNotYeti 10 points 2y ago
Currently people are suggesting things such as "first playthrough" or "spoiler-free playthrough". The issue mainly stems from both of those terms already existing and meaning different things. A "blind playthrough" is a very specific term meant for playing the game without any prior knowledge of it and not wanting any help completing it.

It is completely separate from referring to a blind person. It instead hinges on the other most commonly used definition of lacking understanding, perception, or judgement. I've never even thought of the term in context of people who have impaired vision before this and my father is blind in one eye.
Careless_Pudding_327 2 points 2y ago
Not too mention they got rid of "blind speedrun", and if you say "first speedrun" then you sound like someone who has played the game and probably been practicing speedrunning, attempting their first speedrun of the game, rather than doing a speedrun of a game you've never played before.
NyanMudkip [OP] 2 points 2y ago
I don’t think they replaced it with anything. The suggestion I saw was using the first playthrough tag plus the no spoilers tag.
BlakeBlues 2 points 2y ago
If there existed another phrase to capture that, it would be nice, but I'm not sure if I can think of any that are as/near short as the standard
[deleted] 1 points 2y ago
[deleted]
FishoFred 15 points 2y ago
It really depends on the person, but I don't understand how a blind playthrough would be non-inclusive or offensive. Joking about going blind or making fun of someone for not having "good vision" I think would be more offensive to some people , but not a blind playthrough. Honestly I think some non-disabled people are too sensitive when it comes to this stuff and are overly afraid of using the "b word" in any context.
peggy2033 13 points 2y ago
I find the fact that they removed something that simple is ridiculous.
guitarandbooks 12 points 2y ago
I have no problem with that at all. What I do have a problem with though is the fact that totally blind gamers are still ignored by the major game developers.
NyanMudkip [OP] 3 points 2y ago
What kind of games can totally blind gamers play? Are audio games a thing?
JMMSpartan91 5 points 2y ago
Audio games are a thing.


Some games also include enough audio cues to play without sight. Several fighting games i know for sure.



I'm legally blind and got my ass handed to me by a totally blind kid in Street Fighter. I copied him with a blind fold it was pretty hard for me who uses my spot if central vision a lot but I could see how with practice it would be not bad at all.




Then of course spectrum of blindness. I can play most games still with my central vision but some have awful contrast settings that make it harder and not worth it to keep playing. Or font sizes issues.
donger66669 2 points 2y ago
I'm also legally blind and the best I can do is replay games that I played before I lost my vision. I've heard of audio games, but I haven't yet given them a try.
zersiax 10 points 2y ago
What bothers most people about this, I think, is that actual blind people were very likely not consulted about this change.
I've seen it mentioned in this thread already. People are essentially deciding for other people what's offensive to them.

This is compounded by the tweet that announced this change, saying that they listened to people's feedback. I find this a little odd given the fact that I'd not be surprised if only a super small amount of feedback on this was received, if any at all. If we go down that road though, wouldn't it stand to reason that the name Twitch for a platform is similarly offensive?

It kind of reminds me of the time when people tried to do the same to the word blindspot, replacing it with dead-angle.
In my humble opinion, this is a non-issue. I'd say a blind playthrough doesn't really cover the actual concept very well, but that's my linguistics brain talking. As in ... a blind playthrough is a playthrough that you go into blindly, which in turn is an idiom meaning you don't know what to expect. But given that idiom already got contaminated by colloquializing it as blind playthrough, I can't really see why we get bent out of shape over it. Going in blind is not offensive to me, but I can see that one being far more of an issue than a blind playthrough because it suggests that a blind person never knows what they get into. There's a lot to unpack there as well:
\- First, is that necessarily wrong? If a blind person enters an unfamiliar situation, of course they have skills to figure out that situation , but a blind person isn't going to be able to assess a room very well from a distance, so in that sense I would say going in blind is actually somewhat accurate, if we focus on a single moment rather than a longer-term thing.
\- If we go by that logic, is blind even an insult at that point, though? I'd argue that going inblind, or a blind playthrough, is describing a situation where people don't have foreknowledge about a situation they're about to get into. That's pretty much everyone all of the time though. But then what, do we need to call it a non-clairvoyant playthrough? Oh hey ...that means clear-seeing in French doesn't it?
This is a rabbit hole of immense depth with very little gain and quite honestly, for a company with an inaccessible app, who recently let go the one person who was doing proper accessibility work for Twitch, this is an incredibly laughable move.

So in summary, is blind playthrough offensive? Only to the extent that I don't think it covers the concept, but then I have the same problem with idiot and other old words that gained a nasty connotation later in their lives because that is just how language works. Is it offensive to me as a blind person? No, and frankly it's offensive that other people seem to decide for me that it should be.
appollo2020 1 points 2y ago
You deserve more up votes! Also… I didn’t know dead angle was a thing LOL
zersiax 2 points 2y ago
What's hilarious about dead-angle is that that is what we call it here in the Netherlands actually. The person I'm referring to was in the US though :)
gothicquee 1 points 2y ago
I agree 100%.
bradley22 9 points 2y ago
Haha no. These huge companies have never asked ya no, actual blind people what they think.
Early-Time 9 points 2y ago
It is really stupid to be offended by the word ‘blind’ when it’s not even referring to being blind, in my opinion. So no. This is just silly
rasengan_joe 2 points 2y ago
"Don't say st\*pid. S\*\*\*\*D is a slur and is offensive to people that are not intelligent" - an actual comment I saw
Early-Time 1 points 2y ago
Lol
SqornshellousZ 7 points 2y ago
Yes this bothers me. What If a blind gamer does a blind playthrough? Are we NOT allowed to use the word or do we get a pass?
All language is contextual. The level of absurdity by whomever believed this phrase was in some way derogatory is laughable.
A blind corner is still a blind corner wheather you're fully sighted or not.

This is so short sighted!

Oops I just made fun of short blind people.
DrillInstructorJan 2 points 2y ago
I'm going to come to your house and put mashed potato in your bed.

(Am blind and five feet tall)
SqornshellousZ 1 points 2y ago
Hahaha! This is the most obsurd humour. I love it.

You make mashed potatoes and I'll cook the Coc au vin.
bradley22 2 points 2y ago
Oh no! What will we call blind baking.
FantasticGlove 5 points 2y ago
Ah. It's fine. I understood the context. It's not offensive. People are too weak nowadays.
StefanEats 2 points 2y ago
Who are you calling weak? If you care to read the comments you'll find nobody thinks the term was offensive. This is simply performative inclusion by a company that wants praise without doing anything meaningful. Nobody asked for it.
noaimpara 4 points 2y ago
I’m gonna get "the word blind is not an insult" tatooed on my forehead if i see one more post like this one
Remy_C 4 points 2y ago
Not even a little bit to me. I'm a grown ass adult who is capable distinguishing the nuance and meaning in a word.
BlakeBlues 4 points 2y ago
I think to some it might be, yeah. I think "blind reactions" too aren't great. I'm not necessarily upset when I hear these phrases used, but it would be nice to see other terms used. I just don't know any. I don't really care for my disability being used for a scenario when people don't know what they are expecting. Blind people often work hard at knowing where they are and what is upcoming. But again, I don't know any replacements that get across the same concept. Like "falling on deaf ears" isn't cool, they are just used commonly without much thought from most of the world, including those in the disability communities.
NyanMudkip [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Thanks for your reply
BlakeBlues 1 points 2y ago
No problem. I hope it helps. It's not an awful phrase on my opinion, but it could be better
ImNotYeti 0 points 2y ago
I just want to provide a bit more context for you. Blind is used in two ways when talking about games, but with different definitions of the word.

One is in action ones like shooters when flashbangs go off, they quite literally blind you and turn your screen a solid color so you can't see.

The other is a blind playthrough which uses the other definition "lacking understanding, perception, or judgement". My father is legally blind in one eye and I never even connected visual impairment in this context to that, neither did he who is also very into video games. (edit: Not trying to use this anecdote to speak for blind people or say he faces the same issues they do, just wanted to add that even with having someone close to me that falls under the spectrum of what we consider "blind", I never associated that with this context)

Another definition completely separate to video games even if originally deriving from visual impairment has taken on an entirely new meaning, blinds we use to cover windows. If anything that form of blind is closer to visual impairment than blind playthroughs are.
BlakeBlues 2 points 2y ago
I'm aware there are two main definitions. I don't care for fps games personally, but I do enjoy many games. I think using blinded in that sense is perfectly fine. And I think using blind in the sense of lack of understanding makes sense because we've used it for so long. Your dad being legally blind in one eye is cool but doesn't lend itself being particularly representative of the spectrum of blindness, like my 20/200 acuity doesn't.

I am sure many people don't necessarily draw that connection consciously. Blindness is having your most independence, and some phrases, while unintentional may still give the connotation that blind people are unknowing of what is ahead because for so long many blind people were cast aside like the rest of the disabled community.

Overall, I don't think it's intentionally offensive, maybe not even very much implicitly, but it has had connotations drawn from the perceptions of blind people.
Careless_Pudding_327 2 points 2y ago
> but it has had connotations drawn from the perceptions of blind people.

I think it's actually the other way around. The connotations existed first, then from it the word came to refer to blind people. See $1:

>The original sense would be not "sightless" but rather "confused,"
BlakeBlues 1 points 2y ago
Yes! This is very true! There was a shift in its use, especially around the 1920s-60s in the US specifically. The history of the disability movement started with students and people being isolated and then sent to schools etc. After this came the schools for the blind. In this time, verbage surrounding blindness shifted and gained more perception as seeing blind people as confused etc.
ImNotYeti 2 points 2y ago
I made an edit to my last comment to clarify a bit, wasn't trying to use that anecdote to give my personal stance any form of authority on the subject, can see how it would've read that way though.

I have a lot of experience with deaf family and taking ASL classes, I was mainly trying to extend the knowledge of how I've learned about the tribulations deaf people face and their personal feelings on how deaf people are portrayed to my stance on the word blind being used in different contexts. It might not transfer over 1-1 but that was my baseline for personal feelings on this issue.

Edit: Or downvote me for literally doing nothing aside from adding context to things that people here might not have all the information on.
BlakeBlues -1 points 2y ago
Thanks for the clarifications!

Edit: Why am I being down voted now lol
Terry_Pie 3 points 2y ago
I really don't have much to add, but feel compelled to add my agreement with other comments in this thread.

1. It's not disrespectful or discriminatory;
2. I'd be surprised if any blind or vision impaired person was asked their opinion on the situation;
3. It does nothing to improve the accessibility of Twitch or video games.
gothicquee 3 points 2y ago
No, absolutely not. The most offensive thing about this whole situation is the fact that they didn’t bother to talk to any actual blind people.

Twitch made this decision completely based on how sighted people thought we felt. The worst part about this entire situation is the fact that it won’t get talked about how it should. Nobody will point out how twitch allowed sighted people to speak for us.

They will continue to receive praise because everybody will think they are being so inclusive, in reality they are just virtue signaling. Twitch actually fired the only person who was working to make their site accessible.
soundwarrior20 2 points 2y ago
Really? Why did they fire them where can I read more about this?
gothicquee 1 points 2y ago
I’m sorry it took me forever to reply to this, but if you want to look him up his name is Dale Cruz.
AchooCashew 3 points 2y ago
It's more offensive that sighted people are apparently deciding what is or isn't offensive to us. \*shrug\*
Revenant624 3 points 2y ago
I don’t find it offensive, but unfortunately in every group there are oversensitive people. Whether it’s about a persons disability, Race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. you always find someone that is offended by just about anything and everything. Sometimes I think people just enjoy bitching about something. Those people should focus on more important things
DrillInstructorJan 2 points 2y ago
This comes up what, once a week? No. Nobody cares.

Even if it was somehow a problem, you can't change people's attitude by forcing to use language they don't want to use, you'll just piss em off even worse.

Fuck it makes me curse and swear. Solve real problems, don't waste time on this meaningless virtue signalling self important try hard obnoxious bullshit.
RapperNev 2 points 2y ago
Short answer: FUCK NO!Long answer: FUCK NO! I enjoy games myself, the usage of blind doesn't even pertain to blind people in this context. Same with the blindfolded runs, imagine how much of a lowlife I'd have to be to get offended at a blindfolded run because they're pretending to be me, when 99% of these guys would destroy me in many of the games they play.Enjoy your blind playthroughs and don't worry about what some know-nothing has to say about it. Twitch really should be looking to hand out equal punishments across genders, or more accurately, stop favoring those that pull in a huge amount of money and being more lenient with them, before telling people with disabilities what's offensive to them.
donger66669 2 points 2y ago
I don't find it offensive, but I don't usually take phrases like that personally.
CloudsOfMagellan 2 points 2y ago
Definitely not offensive, about misleading though, I'd imagine a blind play through to be one made with a blindfold or blind player or something
As mentioned above though it's meaningless when the app isn't even accessible
StefanEats 3 points 2y ago
It makes sense that this might be confusing to someone who hasn't heard the term before. "Blind Playthrough" actually uses the other definition of blind: lacking perception, awareness, or discernment. As in, "we were blind to the consequences of our actions."
Careless_Pudding_327 2 points 2y ago
Sometimes it is used that way, although usually people will specify "blindfolded play through" to avoid the ambiguity.
siriuslylupin6 1 points 2y ago
The label seems very harmless and if anything I am just amused. Okay really guys?
chozer1 1 points 2y ago
I am offensive and i find this blind.
chovihanni-VIP 1 points 2y ago
Only sensitive people get offended. That's what it is so that's what it should be called.
Crit95 1 points 2y ago
What is this fresh hell?
tymme 1 points 2y ago
I'm more offended that they took time to do this and then kiss their own ass about it over getting rid of actual problems (like some pretty popular predatory streamers) on the site itself.

But making a blog and rule change is free, instead of costing money by actually clearing away filth....
soundwarrior20 1 points 2y ago
I used twitch just the other day on the latest version of iOS with my iPod touch I thought it was pretty accessible to be honest.
fireborn1472 1 points 2y ago
absolutely not. I am blind and I use blind playthrough all the time.
Mel_AndCholy 1 points 2y ago
No.
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