Bring your karma
Join the waitlist today
HUMBLECAT.ORG

Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 01 - 12 - ID#kw4wam
6
I’ve had it with the headaches (self.Blind)
submitted by YoYo31415
I’ve been using a combo of voiceover/narrator and magnification, and I feel terrible. Like, awful headaches all the time. My eyes have so much strain. I’m probably using my vision too much since I stink at voiceover, which I guess is fixable, but still...so frustrating! I applied for the Hadley Braille readiness course, I have no idea what to expect. Am I overreacting? Has anyone here learned Braille as an adult/is this realistic? Would it be useful to know Braille if I code at my job? I don’t really know what I hope to achieve here, except that I’m currently rocking a migraine and feeling particularly whiny. Thanks for listening.
[deleted] 3 points 2y ago
I was given a link to a free Braille learning course that has options for high contrast mode and non-visual access mode. I've never been someone who has picked up new things fast, but so far I feel great. I committed one hour a day for a week and I've been able to memorize more than half the alphabet. It was intimidating at first because I thought of it as learning an entire new language, but in reality it's non-verbal, so it only requires learning 26 new symbols that are space holders for letters and sounds you already know. There's also commas, periods and capital letter symbols, but that's as far as I reached. I'm unaware of the level of difficulty of learning numbers, I assume that would be a priority for you as a coder. My opinion is bias because I'm sighted and learning so I can teach my blind son when he's old enough. I have no comprehension of how difficult this would be if I had to feel the letters out instead of memorizing how the symbols look.

Anyway here's the link
https://uebonline.org/
YoYo31415 [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Thank you! It is encouraging to hear that you’ve been able to pick up the alphabet pretty quickly. Honestly even if I don’t get far with it, I suspect even knowing individual letters would help because then I could Braille game pieces and not get a headache playing with my family.
dunktheball 3 points 2y ago
Odd timing, as a lot of posts have been lately, because I was JUST thinking about asking if people here have headaches and immediately I see this, within 5 seconds

I was going to ask if any particular pc monitor types or sizes do better for some people than others, but that is related too because I am mainly talking about as far as any better or worse for eye strain and headaches.

I was born with my vision problem, but also now I have a bad cataract, so possible that could be why in recent years I have had much worse headaches. But also I am leaning over at the pc and having horrible posture, so that leads to them too.

I try to not have to take aleve or tylenol much, but some weeks I have to take one or the other almost every day.

I rarely get true migraines, but those are of course even worse.... But most days I have bad.... I guess tension headaches.

I am so sick of it. Day after day. And by the way it all got MUCH worse when I started watching tvs made between 2010 and current. Before that my 1080i 40 inch one was not giving me bad headaches. But now all of them do.... plasma, leds, oleds, etc... And no doctors know a thing to do about any of it or what is happening. of course I have not asked a neurologist or gone to a headache clinic, though.
YoYo31415 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
I was wondering about screen types too. I do find my iPad screen is easier on my eyes than my computer monitor, by a lot. Even with brightness adjustment, blue filter, inverted background, etc. Now if only they’d make an enormous iPad...!
dunktheball 1 points 2y ago
I haven't used mobile devices much in recent years, but I was using someone's iphone (an old one, like the 6s I think) and i was noticing it did look easy on the eyes. That is why when I get me a new one soon, I am planning on an iphone 11 or 12. Is it really shown that oleds strain eyes more, though? I would have thought they'd be easier on the eyes, due to great viewing angles. The iphone 11 is a regular lcd and the 12 is oled.
YoYo31415 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Not sure. I have older devices (5th gen iPad), so can’t comment on the newer ones.
EggBender93 2 points 2y ago
Also, skip using the narrator. NVDA is much better.

JAWS as you probably know is akso very popular. But JAWS is probably more suited for a totally blind user.
YoYo31415 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
At this point I’ll try anything. Is jaws significantly different from nvda? I probably shouldn’t be looking at the screen at all other than for things that are truly inaccessible...for that, I can kinda ‘cheat.’ But it only takes a couple minutes of screen time to bring on a massive headache that lasts for days.
EggBender93 2 points 2y ago
I haven't used JAWS, but I've read and heard that JAWS is more suitable for people who can't use their sight. You could try JAWS though if you're curious.
EggBender93 2 points 2y ago
I find this post very interesting and I can relate. I work as a developer and code a lot. I also get headaches. But I do get some extra support from the welfare system so the state pays my employee a part of my salary so I can get extra time to rest if I need it. If you have that opportunity in your country, take it if you could use that help to get some extra rest or slack when you get tired.

Please try to use the screen reader more. I myself have only used it for like a year now I think consistently while working. The reason is that I want to get used to the synthetic speech, train my brain and hearing to understand it better to crank up the speech rate and learn the shortcuts of the screen reader. If you work on Windows, I strongly recommend the NVDA screen reader, I freaking love NVDA and it has probably saved my productivity some days.

I get it though, yes it sucks to have this and some days I feel frustrated too and even sad. But I get inspiration from other blind/visually impaired developers who can crank that screen reader up to like 300 words per minute. If they could learn to use a screen reader that effectively, why couldn't we? But I think it takes practice so practice with the screen reader more.

Also, there are blind developers who don't use a braille display at all, only screen readers. So you don't need to feel too much pressure I think to learn it. I read about one Google developer or is totally blind and only uses a screen reader, no braille. But I am also thinking about starting to learn it braille if it could help me.
YoYo31415 [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Thank you so much for your reply. I haven’t tried nvda yet—just narrator briefly, and then decided to focus on the Mac side first and learn the windows tools next. Otherwise I get too frustrated. But I will def check out nvda.
EggBender93 2 points 2y ago
I agree. It can be a bit frustrating switching OS. But for me it's the other way around. I love NVDA and Windows. But I despise Mac and VoiceOver.

Btw, NVDA is 100% free which is awesome.
YoYo31415 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Interesting. What do you like about nvda that voiceover (and narrator) doesn’t do as well?
EggBender93 2 points 2y ago
I could be biased so keep that in mind here. Because I mainly use Windows and NVDA. However, my personal experience with VoiceOver and the narrator is that they are a bit sluggish, slow or just feel awkward to code and work with. NVDA feels more light-weight and faster. But take this with agrain of salt, other people might have other opinions. But NVDA just feels faster to work with.
eddie_the_shit 2 points 2y ago
One thing I will say for iPhones is that the screen reader is terrific (or was when I had one in 2015 anyway - I assume they're still good.) I was legally blind (just light and colors) for a few months following surgery in my good eye. I don't think I would have done nearly as well using an Android back then. You're less likely to get eye strain if it's less necessary for you to look at your phone screen.

You might want to consider a second opinion re: cataracts. Pain is one of the main things they look for when deciding whether surgery is warranted. And the procedure is extremely easy and streamlined as well. Doctors routinely do them in tents I'm the Himalayas, FFS.

Additionally, I can't stress enough the importance of increased contrast and color adaptation. I have my PC set to "High Contrast Dark" mode and it helps immensely.

Re: lighting - overhead lighting is crap for folks like us anyway. I've got my place set up with indirect modular lighting and a single task lamp over my computer area. There's a lot of guidance to be found online.
Amonwilde 2 points 2y ago
This is a sign that you need to go up to the next level, so probably using more text to speech. Sucks but the sooner you stop resisting the sooner the headaches will go away. I was there 10 years ago or so.
mehgcap 2 points 2y ago
Braille is certainly helpful for coding. When your speech doesn't say an exclamation point, so you don't realize some variable or expression is being negated, it's annoying. There are plenty of times when I appreciate having braille while coding. However, please learn VoiceOver, or whateveryr screen reader of choice is, first. Having good screen reader skills is far more important for you right now. Braille would help in the long term, but don't prioritize it just yet. Get very, very good with screen readers and speech first. Once all that is second nature, then embrace braille. Just my two cents.
YoYo31415 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Sounds reasonable, thanks for your perspective.
Envrin 2 points 2y ago
I went totally blind at 35. and have to say, not once have I yet thought to myself, "geez, wish I knew brail". I guess maybe once or twice in an elevator, but I'm not about to learn an entirely new language like brail for that.

​

I'm a software developer myself, and although it takes a little getting used to, screen reader works just fine.
DrillInstructorJan 2 points 2y ago
I feel pretty much the same way. I miss reading painfully but honestly the work involved in braille just winds me up.
dunktheball 2 points 2y ago
That's great that you have been able to do software development while totally blind. (btw, I do software development, but just occasionally do it. I make addons to another software just for a little bit of business. I mostly only know php, though, and luckily the other software has so many classes built in that can be easily used where I don't have to write as much.)
YoYo31415 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Thank you, I needed to hear this. I do want to learn, but it takes the pressure off.
eddie_the_shit 2 points 2y ago
I get major eye strain headaches too and it just plain sucks. I found that screens with a high refresh rate (preferably LCD since OLED is known for increasing the risk of eye strain - I notice a big difference). Using high contrast settings, an anti-glare screen cover, and being careful not to scroll too fast has also been beneficial.

You can adapt. Is never too late to learn things like this. Best of luck to you.

p.s.: a little Vap-O-Rub, BenGay, or similar on the lower forehead and temples works wonders for the headaches.
dunktheball 3 points 2y ago
Do you know if any monitor or tv you have used has had "eyecare" as a feature? I guess it's the blue light blocker. I was wondering if whatever the eyecare features are actually make any difference.

Also, what sucks is I am using an LCD monitor form many years ago and it's a CFL one, not an LED one, but I need a new monitor so am worried they will all hurt my head even worse.
eddie_the_shit 2 points 2y ago
To be honest, I'm not familiar with the "eye care" feature.

I recently got a new phone with a LED-backlit screen and a 120 Hz refresh rate. I"ve been very happy with it. I also use e-ink screens whenever possible. I know there are large e-ink tablets that can be hooked up to act as monitors - might be worth a google if you haven't already done so.

It might help to poke around the websites of some schools for the blind or even contact them for advice. They've certainly got IT departments and would likely have significant experience with this sort of situation.
dunktheball 1 points 2y ago
Thanks. Good suggestions. Also, I had wondered if higher refresh rates may help. I know supposedly the lower the refresh rate, the more chance of subliminal flicker, which could cause headaches, for instance.
eddie_the_shit 2 points 2y ago
The subliminal flicker issue is definitely a factor for me. I don't know why it's worse with OLED screens, but my old Galaxy Tab S3 (even with s 120 Hz refresh rate) was essentially a migraine machine. I've read that that's not an uncommon thing.
4humans 2 points 2y ago
It can never hurt to learn braille. I learned as an adult. For coding however, I doubt you’d need it. You know this but practice with VO so that you don’t have to use your sight.
dunktheball 2 points 2y ago
I have got to start trying some of that myself. i want to rely on seeing things, but it just makes some things worse on me, such as headaches like with yoyo.
YoYo31415 [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Yeah...I get frustrated with VO and try to see the screen too often. I definitely need to practice.
MostlyBlindGamer 2 points 2y ago
Gotta take off those training wheels. I don't have issues with strain, but I'm not as good with VO as I should be.
YoYo31415 [OP] 2 points 2y ago
I probably need to turn the screen off to force myself to figure it out. The struggle is real.
MostlyBlindGamer 2 points 2y ago
Yeah, or turn the brightness down or something.

I had to spend a week flat on my back, a few months ago and really wished I was better at using VoiceOver.
siriuslylupin6 1 points 2y ago
Maybe you should focus on learning voiceover then.
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc   •   HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.