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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 02 - 16 - ID#llbx5k
7
Explain ableism to me. I lost my vision last year so I’m pretty new to the term. (self.Blind)
submitted by kelpangler
I’ve read about common phrases like “I’m so blind” or “Are you deaf?” being part of the problem. It’s the idea that you have a condition that is looked down or inferior and that’s where these phrases came from.

I had to think about that for awhile. They’re things I’ve said in the past and even now because I don’t even think about it. Sometimes I wonder if it’s just too “politically correct”. BTW I hate that term, as well.

What else is ableism? It doesn’t need to be in the context of vision loss only. I’d like to hear about other examples or experiences you’ve had. Thanks.
MostlyBlindGamer 6 points 2y ago
It seems to me like you're definition of ableism is very narrow. It means discrimination against people with disabilities.

Not hiring someone because they're blind is very clearly discriminating against them based on a disability.

I don't think many people care too much about those normal words.
kelpangler [OP] 3 points 2y ago
Ha I thought I was thinking too broadly. The hiring thing definitely sticks out in my mind clearly. Another is having access to places, buildings, etc.

When I first heard the term, I thought maybe this is a social justice thing. (Note: Apologies in advance if that’s a trigger word. I don’t want to get political.) And then I tried to think of it in terms of how we’re dealing racism, sexism, and the like. How it’s systemic and how do we dig deeper to get to its core.

One thing I read was that you should always start with referring to someone as a person. Humanizing them. And then adding the thing that distinguishes them. Ex. A person who is blind versus a visually disabled person. Maybe it’s splitting hairs.
MostlyBlindGamer 2 points 2y ago
To be fair, I notice a push against some atitudes that are labeled as politically correct or SJW. I feel like I hear more about people being confused about what's offensive and what isn't than I hear people being offended. At the same time, one does get tired of people asking how you use toilet paper and assuming you're incapable of the most basic tasks.

As with all things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I think it's important not to let the conversation get sidetracked, when we do face daily discrimination, whether or not it's intentional. Like the examples you mentioned.
ukifrit 1 points 2y ago
you cant take ableism out of politics. Like, it's just not possible without turning the discussion into nothing.
[deleted] 1 points 2y ago
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[deleted] 2 points 2y ago
I’m a sighted person with ocular albinism and nystagmus and those conditions disqualify me from certain jobs and careers (military, most outdoors jobs like with NPS or USFS, those two I’m a little salty about still) but like I understand the reasoning for why I’m disqualified from them, how is that ableism? Or is it like not giving someone a job they are qualified and able to do purely because of a disability? Just asking for clarification like OP I’m not at all familiar with what that word actually means and most definitions online are very politicized and differ a lot.
MostlyBlindGamer 1 points 2y ago
I'm never gonna be a race car driver, but I've been passed on for my current position at different companies. I was qualified for the job, but they couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of doing it with reasonable accommodations.
ABlindManPlays 4 points 2y ago
I don't care. I know my worth and I do not allow people to drag me down. I hate it when people walk on eggshells around me. That's why I'm usually the first to make a blind joke. I know people who use phrases like that normally mean no harm or disparagement and I have no interest in joining an unrealistic grand social crusade that gives no allowances for people to make mistakes or be human. I'm too busy kicking ass, taking names, and pursuing my happiness.
kelpangler [OP] 1 points 2y ago
I’ll make a blind joke too but then it hurts when someone else makes it. Ha.
siriuslylupin6 2 points 2y ago
I personally think it is too pc but that’s just my opinion it’s hard to actually offend me. Personally I don’t get offended or see this stuff that way. It’s just phrases. Most people don’t mean them like people say they are meaning them and usually people don’t mean to degrade or denigrate at all. Usually people wasn’t meaning to offend in the first place.
kelpangler [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Yeah I understand. It’s so engrained in our conversations. But then there are phrases I don’t use anymore. “That’s so gay” or “You throw like a girl”. I still hear the latter one but with 2 girls I consciously made the decision not to. It’s an eye opener to see how much women have been thought of as inferior in language.
siriuslylupin6 1 points 2y ago
Haha! I don’t know if I like those I always thought the word gay as not used as homosexual as odd. You’re so gay okay what does that mean? Haha! The throwing like a girl comment just sounds..... mean hahahaha!

But yeah, it is I use some of the blind ones too.


Are you blind????? Like can’t you see that!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahaha! Some people get so sensitive who are sighted they don’t want to use the word see. And I am like. Hey you can use that it won’t offend me you know:?
kelpangler [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Yeah sometimes we’re walking on eggshells. For example when referring to race. Should I call you black or African American? Asian or Korean? Latina or Hispanic? The list goes on. However, I do strive to have empathy and validate the other guy. Ha
siriuslylupin6 1 points 2y ago
True I just try not to be frustrated.
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
I'd stay away from that sort of term unless there are some really specific circumstances.

If someone's done something dumb that causes you hassle and aggro, complain about that.

Don't make it political unless you want to be a politician. If you want to be a normal person getting on with life, deal with the problems you hit as you hit them. The only purpose of a word like "ableism" is to try to connect something someone's done to some hidden campaign against disabled people which is probably imaginary and if even if it exists there's no point in accusing random people of being part of it.
kelpangler [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Hmm what about sexism or ageism? Personally I don’t see those as political at all. They’re just perceived wrongs based on the specific -ism. Sort of giving it an actual name to make it a real, defined thing.

However, are things hyper-politicized? Yeah I believe so. I think it mucks up the water on lots of issues.
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
I don't disagree, but in the end what does it get you. Someone could to me say oh, you can't be a mathematician, you're a girl. That would be sexism. But good grief, nobody really does that, do they? And if they did I'd have stronger words for them. If someone decided I couldn't have my cane in some place because they're concerned amount me taking chunks out of the paintwork, which has totally happened, then I wouldn't start screaming ableism, I'd start asking why I can't take my cane in there. Calling it ableism is just, I don't know, categorisation? Who cares.

Or well actually I'd say "someone book a cab to any other restaurant." Which is what we did. And we still didn't need the word ableism.
kelpangler [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Yeah I probably wouldn’t necessarily use the term to rage against anyone. It helps to identify what it is though. Thanks.
ukifrit 1 points 2y ago
I recommend you try to read stuff about ableism from good sources, there are nice reflections on ableism beyond the surface. I'm sure folks can tell you where to start, I couldn't because I mainly read stuff in Portuguese.
kelpangler [OP] 1 points 2y ago
The way I was made aware of ableism was because I started following a few blind people on Twitter. That led me to a couple articles and the greater disabled community. It felt like I stepped into a conversation so I needed to learn the basics of it which turned into this thread. This has been super helpful!

One thing I noticed is that many disabled people on Twitter also seemed to be LGBTQ. I’m wondering if that’s because that’s a popular platform for them. Not that you can answer, I just thought it was interesting.
ukifrit 2 points 2y ago
I think GBTQ people tend to feel more free to talk about themselves on twitter and other social media because you don’t need to tell your real name or post real photos of you.
If you are on twitter and don’t follow her, @catchthesewords is a must on English speaking blind twitter. Some nice reflections and she also has a podcast where she interviews blind people from various areas about their jobs and life.
You know I actually love how most of the profiles I follow aren’t restricted to disability only? Because it’s so easy to take disability away from human diversity and don’t consider the ways it interacts with race, gender, sexuality and other oppression structures.
kelpangler [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Thanks for the tip! I recently was following a hashtag that was about general disability but almost everyone was LGBTQ. I posted too then I thought crap maybe this wasn’t for me? Haha
ukifrit 1 points 2y ago
I'm not lgbtq myself, but I think we can only benefit from having lgbtq points of view.
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kelpangler [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Ok this is a good summary and I can see your point. Is it too oversimplified to call this behavior pity?
[deleted] 1 points 2y ago
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je97 1 points 2y ago
Here's how I see it, other people might have a different view.

Ableism to me has two forms: one of which is the one that you can probably understand from the get go and one which is a lot less understood. I won't go into the first one, failure to make adjustments/discrimination, because really it's kind of obvious and we could all provide a million examples of it. I will, however, talk about the other.

What I'm talking about is the belief that disabled people are less capable, intelligent or deserving of the level of respect that would generally be offered to a non-disabled person. This includes the belief that a disabled person can't make decisions (things being done for or on behalf of a disabled person without asking for their consent), disabled people being talked about rather than to (Does he take sugar?), unwanted and sometimes forceful offers of help (yes I know where I'm going, no I don't need your help, yes by grabbing my arm you have completely disorientated me, no I'm not thankful.) It also extends to things like civil society groups declaring something to be 'offensive' to x disabled community.

I am blind, which makes me officially disabled. I am not visually impaired, which makes me 'differently abled.' Yes my eyes don't work, yes occasionally I do walk into things, yes sometimes my blindness does lead to things happening that are likely pretty funny. I don't need sheltering from any of these things, and I've asked sighted friends 'are you fucking blind' in the past.
kelpangler [OP] 2 points 2y ago
You said the following: “It also extends to things like civil society groups declaring something to be 'offensive' to x disabled community.” Can you give an actual example of this? Doesn’t have to be about vision.
CloudyBeep 3 points 2y ago
It's not an exact example, but Twitch removed the "blind playthrough" tag a few weeks ago, but this was not something that blind people asked for.
kelpangler [OP] 2 points 2y ago
I’m not familiar with Twitch so what’s the blind play through?

To be honest it sounds a bit unforgiving but maybe it’s like mansplaining?
CloudyBeep 1 points 2y ago
Twitch is a website that gamers use to stream themselves playing games. A blind playthrough is when a gamer starts playing with no knowledge of what will happen during the game, so their reactions and experience are genuine. Because Twitch removed this tag, it's harder for people who want to watch these streams because they have to sort videos by two tags. Many people who use Twitch posted here to get our feedback on the removal of the "blind playthrough" tag.
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