Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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[QUESTION] How well do you like the world designed and built by people who can see? (self.Blind)
submitted by [deleted]
I am not trying to be insensitive in any way, I just had this thought because I was using the Windows 10 screen reader program because I wanted to read a document and do something else at the same time. Anyway because I do not know how to properly use the program it was reading everything except the document at times. SO I found the way the reader sounded when going through menus and options very annoying,
I have to preface this with the fact that I started using computers in 1998 before I even hit puberty, personal computers were very rare still at the time so you learned by doing, I had no idea how to do things so you would have to read the actual physical manual that came with each program if you wanted to know how to do anything. There were no instructional YouTube videos, most young parents did not have a gaming system, computer, mobile phone, touch screen was in infancy at the time or even a television in their homes, radios were still very popular at this time.
My job today is not in the field of computers but today unless someone creates a radically new interface I can get on nearly any electronic device and at least figure out the basics (only if they are in a language I understand or can use a translation application on) within a few minutes and after a few hours with the help of the internet I can figure out how to some what comfortably use it. No I can not hack anything just most likely figure out how to open a browser or e-mail or a program to write word documents. You would be surprised how many people even today do not use technology.
Any way today I see kids in abundance leapfrogging me in their knowledge of electronics (it is a great thing to watch) and how things work but didn't need to learn everything I did in order to have a some what intuitive knowledge of how things should or might work and then being able to pick up a device and without reading the manual or instructions and without assistance figure out the basics. Many manufacturers of electronics do standardize some things but some do their own thing and might use similar buttons but in different sequences to make it function.
Interacting with the rest of the world on a physical level must be exhausting at times without the ability to see the obstacles, but computers can be designed to configure to any type of interface needs and could be designed to have a better flow.
So my thought was that with my ability to see influences my ability to process how do to things on the computer at least ones I am familiar with and the same is true of the designers. Thanks to technology many people who were formally closed off from the world in some aspects have gained the ability to be apart of it in ways like at no other time in human history. I am wondering how would a computer interface and programs designed completely with blind people in mind and a visual interface aspect of it is something that can be done in an update or application after the fact look like and if because there is no need for visual feed back if there would be a more efficient design over all.
I might be high as I write this so please take no offence it is a honest question.
I have to preface this with the fact that I started using computers in 1998 before I even hit puberty, personal computers were very rare still at the time so you learned by doing, I had no idea how to do things so you would have to read the actual physical manual that came with each program if you wanted to know how to do anything. There were no instructional YouTube videos, most young parents did not have a gaming system, computer, mobile phone, touch screen was in infancy at the time or even a television in their homes, radios were still very popular at this time.
My job today is not in the field of computers but today unless someone creates a radically new interface I can get on nearly any electronic device and at least figure out the basics (only if they are in a language I understand or can use a translation application on) within a few minutes and after a few hours with the help of the internet I can figure out how to some what comfortably use it. No I can not hack anything just most likely figure out how to open a browser or e-mail or a program to write word documents. You would be surprised how many people even today do not use technology.
Any way today I see kids in abundance leapfrogging me in their knowledge of electronics (it is a great thing to watch) and how things work but didn't need to learn everything I did in order to have a some what intuitive knowledge of how things should or might work and then being able to pick up a device and without reading the manual or instructions and without assistance figure out the basics. Many manufacturers of electronics do standardize some things but some do their own thing and might use similar buttons but in different sequences to make it function.
Interacting with the rest of the world on a physical level must be exhausting at times without the ability to see the obstacles, but computers can be designed to configure to any type of interface needs and could be designed to have a better flow.
So my thought was that with my ability to see influences my ability to process how do to things on the computer at least ones I am familiar with and the same is true of the designers. Thanks to technology many people who were formally closed off from the world in some aspects have gained the ability to be apart of it in ways like at no other time in human history. I am wondering how would a computer interface and programs designed completely with blind people in mind and a visual interface aspect of it is something that can be done in an update or application after the fact look like and if because there is no need for visual feed back if there would be a more efficient design over all.
I might be high as I write this so please take no offence it is a honest question.
CloudyBeep 10 points 2y ago
Your inability to use Narrator is not because it's unintuitive (in my opinion it is, but that's not the point), but because you have no experience of this kind of technology. How quickly do you think that you could start using a digital audio workstation, for example (assuming that you currently don't know anything about audio)?
The early Windows screen readers were actually primarily designed by blind people. One of these, JAWS, was created for DOS, and its creators realized that they would need to make a Windows version so blind people would not be left behind—they created it out of necessity, and its almost 35-year success and popularity is because it was designed by blind people, and many of the features within it have similar equivalents in other screen readers.
In general, technology works best when blind people are at the forefront of its design because we know what problems we have, and we know what should be done to address them. Many sighted people come to this community with the belief that they will be our saviour—creating the product that will change our lives but without knowing what our problems are. These projects almost always fail for many reasons, one of which is that they don't understand the problems that blind people face and how to solve them.
The early Windows screen readers were actually primarily designed by blind people. One of these, JAWS, was created for DOS, and its creators realized that they would need to make a Windows version so blind people would not be left behind—they created it out of necessity, and its almost 35-year success and popularity is because it was designed by blind people, and many of the features within it have similar equivalents in other screen readers.
In general, technology works best when blind people are at the forefront of its design because we know what problems we have, and we know what should be done to address them. Many sighted people come to this community with the belief that they will be our saviour—creating the product that will change our lives but without knowing what our problems are. These projects almost always fail for many reasons, one of which is that they don't understand the problems that blind people face and how to solve them.
siriuslylupin6 3 points 2y ago
I don’t agree with you if sighted people have enough feedback they would do fine. Voice over vs jaws.
[deleted] [OP] 2 points 2y ago
See I never knew that aspect of the technology design, I figured they would have consulted at different points over the years since my whole understanding is that with the birth of the technology it had that benefit and the benefit was seen early on, but it makes sense that the people smart enough to come up with this stuff would be smart enough to ask the question of inclusivty very early on.
If by me asking this question if benefits the blind community or the world in general, great if it's just a question that has an answer I just didn't know great give it to me. If I am the one who ends up helping or someone else doesn't matter to me the, question is a stoner hypothetical question "How would the world look if at some point soon a large majority of humanity lost the ability to see ONLY, everything else stays the same?" boiled down to just "If the main selling points weren't the visual aspects of the interface but rather caters towards auditory or touch or thought interface or combination of those would there be a insights we could apply to the technology now?"
If by me asking this question if benefits the blind community or the world in general, great if it's just a question that has an answer I just didn't know great give it to me. If I am the one who ends up helping or someone else doesn't matter to me the, question is a stoner hypothetical question "How would the world look if at some point soon a large majority of humanity lost the ability to see ONLY, everything else stays the same?" boiled down to just "If the main selling points weren't the visual aspects of the interface but rather caters towards auditory or touch or thought interface or combination of those would there be a insights we could apply to the technology now?"
siriuslylupin6 2 points 2y ago
I would disagree with the poster here. Look at voice over largely developed by apple may have input and eventually some blind help but not a blind company. So yeah.
Some companies have and others haven’t and others have been stopped ms wanted to but was stopped because of antitrust case. They wanted to but blind people say fuck you we can design something better and ms was like fine well we can’t afford this we have an antitrust suit and we’d lose so they didn’t now they are starting to work on it so ms is very behind unfortunately.
Some companies have and others haven’t and others have been stopped ms wanted to but was stopped because of antitrust case. They wanted to but blind people say fuck you we can design something better and ms was like fine well we can’t afford this we have an antitrust suit and we’d lose so they didn’t now they are starting to work on it so ms is very behind unfortunately.
[deleted] [OP] 1 points 2y ago
My question is about perspective, our eyes provide visual input which influences our decision about design and efficiency, if visual input output was the main priority how would that influence the view of efficiency and would any on of those hypothetical answers have impact on the world now in a positive way who benefit will be for all if you can' t live with an idea that only benefits maybe not in equal ways but just benefits..
siriuslylupin6 1 points 2y ago
What do you mean I am trying to understand I think screen readers and every day we can be pretty efficient. I think it takes adjusting I think if you compare blind or sighted sighted may always be faster it would depend but we are not horribly slow or anything.
CloudyBeep 2 points 2y ago
I honestly have no idea what we could do to prepare for everyone becoming blind. I think that, if we did nothing, many people would be left behind. I think that things like voice assistants would become very popular because sighted people assume that blind people make heavy use of them (some of us do, but not everyone). If everyone were to become blind, I wonder how people would deal with all of the inaccessible websites, apps and services that exist today—services that blind people can't use because they don't supportassistive technology.
blackberrybunny 3 points 2y ago
People who can see have no idea what we are dealing with. Only those who were born blind, legally blind, (like me), or those who were sighted and lost their sight, have an idea of what we are dealing with. The rest can F.O. for all I care. That is how I feel about it.
Rodrick-Heffley1 2 points 2y ago
I agree and I’m sighted. If I see a blind person having trouble and they want my help, I will help them to my best ability.
siriuslylupin6 3 points 2y ago
I would say the physical world is easy for me. One would need to learn to adapt and adjust. The world is made for sighted people by sighted people but there are methods to learn it and/or modify it technology is a good example. Getting around, getting on public transport is possible.yes you would have a hard time so would joe blo who went suddenly blind tomorrow so many I am struggling right now stories on this sub. To learn to adapt and adjust one would need those skills and they would be able to do it at a pretty high ability, if not fully. That’s possible too. I fit in and blend in to the world pretty well.
Also screen reading is something you get use to. The voices sound weird. The thing is hard to use but any software also takes learning.
Also screen reading is something you get use to. The voices sound weird. The thing is hard to use but any software also takes learning.
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