Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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'Screen access technology has existed for decades': Visually impaired man sues Dell over 'inaccessible' website (theregister.com)
submitted by vwlsmssng
bdevel 9 points 2y ago
I build websites. I see "unnecessarily confusing" all the time. Everyone wants to reinvent the wheel to stay busy or to feel like they are innovating. The best method to follow is KISS, or "keep it stupid simple", or is it "keep is simple stupid". In my opinion, the way the site looks should be the least priority and the users should decide how it looks.
vwlsmssng [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Isn't this problem about relying on appearance to convey meaning and not having meaning explicitly marked up.
In this case did the screen-reader not have access to the \<del\> tag or was it not used to indicate the struck-through price?
In this case did the screen-reader not have access to the \<del\> tag or was it not used to indicate the struck-through price?
zersiax 2 points 2y ago
Most screenreaders ignore <del> by default, or at least they have for a very long time. NVDA reads it now, but I think only since a year or so back.
As for hoping the suit flops, I actually hope it succeeds. You might have managed it, your 75-year-old blind grandpa may not have. Different levels of proficiency with screenreader technology is a thing, and so is setting a precedent.
As for hoping the suit flops, I actually hope it succeeds. You might have managed it, your 75-year-old blind grandpa may not have. Different levels of proficiency with screenreader technology is a thing, and so is setting a precedent.
vwlsmssng [OP] 2 points 2y ago
> As for hoping the suit flops, I actually hope it succeeds. You might have managed it,
You might be replying to the wrong person here. I'm hoping the suit succeeds if it has the merit it claims. There is so little extra effort required to make life better for a lot of people. In one part of the lawsuit the plaintiff is complaining
> Defendant does not provide a text equivalent for non-text elements
How hard is that to do?
This story caught my eye because I'm just helping someone with an iOS app where the icons on screen are described either with silence or "unpronounceable!". This is not a trivial app but one mandated by their employer for dealing with expenses.
You might be replying to the wrong person here. I'm hoping the suit succeeds if it has the merit it claims. There is so little extra effort required to make life better for a lot of people. In one part of the lawsuit the plaintiff is complaining
> Defendant does not provide a text equivalent for non-text elements
How hard is that to do?
This story caught my eye because I'm just helping someone with an iOS app where the icons on screen are described either with silence or "unpronounceable!". This is not a trivial app but one mandated by their employer for dealing with expenses.
zersiax 2 points 2y ago
You're correct, I did mean that last bit to be a reply to another person.For a screenreader it isn't always apparent that when replying to a post, a thread of sorts is created visually, so I forget at times :)
As for providing text alternatives for non-textual elements, generally this is among the easiest low-hanging fruit to tackle accessibility-wise if it's like, an icon, or an image that describes something. Charts and graphs and such are trickier, but then that isn't what is being mentioned here I don't think :)
As for icons, on the web you'd probably hide the icons and provide a screenreader-only textual equivalent, or you'd programmatically label the element the icon is in or the icon itself. I don't know all that much about the way iOS handles accessibility for custom components, but i'm pretty sure adding this should be reasonably trivial.
As for providing text alternatives for non-textual elements, generally this is among the easiest low-hanging fruit to tackle accessibility-wise if it's like, an icon, or an image that describes something. Charts and graphs and such are trickier, but then that isn't what is being mentioned here I don't think :)
As for icons, on the web you'd probably hide the icons and provide a screenreader-only textual equivalent, or you'd programmatically label the element the icon is in or the icon itself. I don't know all that much about the way iOS handles accessibility for custom components, but i'm pretty sure adding this should be reasonably trivial.
hopesthoughts 1 points 2y ago
That's what makes it relative. Just because someone isn't 100% proficient doesn't mean we should have to change everything for them.
My 80 year old sighted grandma calls me for computer advice. She really isn't all that tech savvy. That doesn't mean she can't learn.
My 80 year old sighted grandma calls me for computer advice. She really isn't all that tech savvy. That doesn't mean she can't learn.
quanin 2 points 2y ago
I mean, I just ordered a computer off Dell's website a couple days ago. What access issue?
True_Candyman 3 points 2y ago
The suit noted, as examples of the platform's inaccessibility, that Giannaros had tried to look into a feature on Dell.com where the user can apply for credit through “Dell Preferred Account” to finance their purchase, but this resulted in an improperly formatted pop-up that was invisible to screen reader users. Instead, the website kept prompting the user with info from the underlying page. This made it "impossible for Plaintiff to perceive the additional information he needs before choosing this financing option," alleged the suit.
The complaint also described the plaintiff as looking at pricing options and encountering an “old” or “original” price that a sighted person would see had a strikethrough, as well as a “sale” price. The formatting meant the screen reader was not able to discern this, however, and read out both prices, which would be "unnecessarily confusing" to visually impaired users.
The complaint also described the plaintiff as looking at pricing options and encountering an “old” or “original” price that a sighted person would see had a strikethrough, as well as a “sale” price. The formatting meant the screen reader was not able to discern this, however, and read out both prices, which would be "unnecessarily confusing" to visually impaired users.
quanin 1 points 2y ago
> The suit noted, as examples of the platform's inaccessibility, that Giannaros had tried to look into a feature on Dell.com where the user can apply for credit through “Dell Preferred Account” to finance their purchase, but this resulted in an improperly formatted pop-up that was invisible to screen reader users. Instead, the website kept prompting the user with info from the underlying page. This made it "impossible for Plaintiff to perceive the additional information he needs before choosing this financing option," alleged the suit.
I mean, their screenreader could probably handle that. Mine did, but I decided against the DPA on account of I'd rather not pay damn near 50% interest. What were they not doing?
> The complaint also described the plaintiff as looking at pricing options and encountering an “old” or “original” price that a sighted person would see had a strikethrough, as well as a “sale” price. The formatting meant the screen reader was not able to discern this, however, and read out both prices, which would be "unnecessarily confusing" to visually impaired users.
Nice generalization. Am visually impaired user, am not confused. I hope this suit flops.
I mean, their screenreader could probably handle that. Mine did, but I decided against the DPA on account of I'd rather not pay damn near 50% interest. What were they not doing?
> The complaint also described the plaintiff as looking at pricing options and encountering an “old” or “original” price that a sighted person would see had a strikethrough, as well as a “sale” price. The formatting meant the screen reader was not able to discern this, however, and read out both prices, which would be "unnecessarily confusing" to visually impaired users.
Nice generalization. Am visually impaired user, am not confused. I hope this suit flops.
True_Candyman 3 points 2y ago
I dunno, I can understand where they are coming from. As an it professional, there are better ways to handle both those things even before considering accessibility so i think it is poor practice that makes it more difficult.
The more weird exceptional different stuff like this is allowed, the more development products like JAWS have to go through, and therefore the higher the cost to the consumers of JAWS.
Theres a reason gov.uk as a platform for example is so uniform and basic, and thats to make government services accessible, and reduce the complexity and cost of accessible software.
Theres just not a good reason for dell to implement this way that I can see, its bad user experience design. Whether they should get fined for that is then just a matter of law, and I'm not familiar enough with American law to know if they have a case or whether they are just throwing up a stink
The more weird exceptional different stuff like this is allowed, the more development products like JAWS have to go through, and therefore the higher the cost to the consumers of JAWS.
Theres a reason gov.uk as a platform for example is so uniform and basic, and thats to make government services accessible, and reduce the complexity and cost of accessible software.
Theres just not a good reason for dell to implement this way that I can see, its bad user experience design. Whether they should get fined for that is then just a matter of law, and I'm not familiar enough with American law to know if they have a case or whether they are just throwing up a stink
quanin 2 points 2y ago
That's my point, though. It's usable. It's even accessible. It's just not what this person wants to see, which is... not lawsuit-worthy.
hopesthoughts 1 points 2y ago
That's what I always wonder in these cases. What are they not doing correctly?
vwlsmssng [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Maybe Dell have fixed this now, though this shouldn't forgive their previous sins and invalidate the law suit.
quanin 2 points 2y ago
They must have fixed it a year ago, as I had no problems buying a laptop from them either. And if this issue existed a year ago, why weren't they sued a year ago?
siriuslylupin6 0 points 2y ago
yeah, fucking typical. This is why blind people look absolutely pathetic.
This is why I hate fucking stupid blind people stupid no life busy body I hope this man just gets lost and this case laughed off.
This is why I hate fucking stupid blind people stupid no life busy body I hope this man just gets lost and this case laughed off.
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