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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 04 - 26 - ID#mzdl1f
5
Finding problems with current smart cane solutions (self.Blind)
submitted by hexanerax06
Hello, I am a Human Computer Interaction student at RIT. I am currently doing a project on why smart canes are not adopted by blind users. Any kind of input on this would be appreciated, the longer the paragraphs the better :P
SeptemberJoy 6 points 2y ago
I'm a bit hung up on you saying this isn't a study when trying to instigate discussion to use in a project. It might not be a traditional research case study, but it's a fine line to be skirting. It's one thing to use organic discussions that you don't participate in... This isn't that. I hope you find the information you're after.
Johnny5wasalive 3 points 2y ago
Yea, I agree. This seems really...fishy
hexanerax06 [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Hi, I think you're right, as much as this isn’t a traditional research case study it still is "research". I'll strike that line out. I am trying to find some information on why blind people don't use smart canes, this sub has been a good resource so far and I was thinking I could interact with more people here to really drill down on the problems.
SeptemberJoy 2 points 2y ago
I understand trying to get the info you need when there's not a lot published <3 I'm nearing the end of a non-traditional PhD on a niche subject and it can be a nightmare finding what I'm after. I didn't want to jump through the hoops of ethics approval so I keep my distance (and headdesk often).

As to your question:

I've been a guide dog user for over a decade (currently with dog #3) and that partnership is something I would never trade. I also have a physical disability due to injury, which means I have the guide dog on my left and an elbow crutch on the right. While I can use a cane and crutch it's mentally exhausting - "think rub your tummy, pat your head". Lastly, I don't believe it would add value to my travel.

If you include my response please don't include my username.
KillerLag 4 points 2y ago
One main issue is the cost. A cane (in Canada) costs between $50 to $70, and it partially subsidized by the health care system (so my clients usually pay between $12 to $20).

Even a cane with just an ultrasonic sensor (such as the Ultracane, https://www.ultracane.com/ultracanecat/ultracane) is 590 British pounds (so over a thousand Canadian). The WeWALK cane (https://cnibsmartlife.ca/products/wewalk-smart-cane?_pos=6&_sid=30ef9006a&_ss=r) is $800, and actually still requires you to buy a cane. There is a Buzzclip (which is a portable ultrasonic unit that can be attached to a cane, https://cnibsmartlife.ca/products/buzzclip-2?_pos=45&_sid=30ef9006a&_ss=r) is $250, and I've seen it miss large objects at close distances.

For many of my clients, the functionality isn't worth the high cost. Especially when the GPS can be use by a device they already have (their phones).
hexanerax06 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
I had no idea that smart canes would be so expensive considering the hardware inside them isn't. I do agree with your point that users can use their phones instead. Thanks for the insight
codeplaysleep 3 points 2y ago
I would think it would be fairly obvious.

It's putting expensive electronics into a device that's designed to strike objects and splash through puddles and mud, that gets caught in doors, dropped, knocked over, etc.

They cost too much. They're heavy and not ergonomic. They're often not weatherproof. They're too hard to replace/have a backup on hand. They're less compact than your average folding cane. They have a battery life measured in hours rather than days.

Aaaaaand finally, the technology in them doesn't offer any more functionality than we can already get with our smart phones that we're carrying anyway (at least nothing that is reliable).
hexanerax06 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Thank you for your reply!
Superfreq2 2 points 2y ago
Well... You asked for paragraphs...


To me, smart canes tend to either be made by big hearted but misguided engineers who won't take no for an answer even when it's coming from the disabled community, because an experience in their life has made them believe this is the only way to really help and "we just don't understand" or "we're just afraid of change"... Or, sighted techbros who know next to nothing about the blind getting in on a new market niche and using the disabled thing as sympathy porn to get investors onboard. These people don't really care about "helping the blind" per say, they care about government contracts and being famous for being such great people to have invented this thing for the helpless blindies who were walking around with simple sticks like cavemen before they came along and shined the light of progress down upon us all.


The advertising is often borderline insulting as well. Sappy music with either the creator or some poor blind shmuck who either needed the money or just never got the right training so they think this is the best way forward, saying nice things about the product, often talking about how this will make blind people independent (as if proper training and support can't already do that) and that somehow this will help blind kids in the developing world despite the high costs and breakability.


At least, that's my perception. I've never met a blind person in my entire life who has tried a smart cane and really liked it. We keep telling these people that the cane is built the way it is for a reason and that it's already been optimized, but they just don't want to hear it, and who can blame them when they've already spent the money and made promises to investors... If they had quit earlier in the process it wouldn't be such a big deal, but either they never reached out to us or we never reached out to them in time, or they just straight up refused to listen to reason.


The thing is, I don't really believe that most blind people are actually averse to the basic concept of a smart cane, it's just that the implementations of the last couple decades have all been trash. Frankly I just don't think the tech is their yet, and even if it was, it would be prohibitively expensive. These companies need to stop using consumers with often limited funds and vital use cases as their guinea pigs, and either band together into a larger company who can afford to spend the money and time required on R&D to make an actually good product, or lobby the government as a group to start up a publicly funded project they can all contribute knowledge to.


If 20 years from now I can have a cane which barely weighs more than usual, doesn't have balance problems, has just as much tactile feedback as a regular cane, is durable and highly weather resistant, can be made portable, has a battery which will last at least 24 hours on a charge, has mostly replaceable components, has plenty of user adjustable settings which are totally accessible by a fully blind customer, doesn't make me stand out or put me in danger with loud noises, lights, ETC, and doesn't cost me more than $300 USD than I might consider it, if I felt it was useful enough to justify buying.


But to be honest, I'm already under the impression that A. Most reasonably well trained non HoH cane users don't really need the extra feedback in 95% of situations anyway and B. The cane is just a bad platform for the tech anyway and that a discrete wearable makes allot more sense, especially for those with low vision who don't quite need a cane but could use the extra help at night for instance.


So yeah, smart canes suck, and even the best ones are still bad. I'll happily try them out for free just to remind my self of this fact and try to convince interested buyers to back out before it's too late, but I won't be buying one in this decade....


Don't even get me started on Fing robot guidedogs! LOL
hexanerax06 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Wow, that was long but extremely insightful. Thank you so much!
siriuslylupin6 2 points 2y ago
If yu would like to chat let me know. Very experienced cane user and traveler here, even run with one and have traveled different states and very proficiently too.

But in short they are not proficient and practical. They are clumsy and big. They provide features that other things such as smart phones can provide along with a traditional cane. There’s no reason for a all in one. It often results in being more unwieldy at that point. Proficient travelers who are quite independent don’t need it and find a all in one cane cumbersome and unnecessary. If I need it I’ll pull it up on my phone, besides I get my choice of apps I am not limited to a setting on a cane, and I use more traditional methods so I do not use all these new fangled apps too much. I would also say some of us like lighter canes and often these devices makes the canes quite heavy. If it breaks down you need to send it in for repairs then what? They are expensive to fix they are not cheap we. Can’t afford multiple,if you become reliant on them you’re screwed. I would rather buy a more traditional cane, if they break I buy a new one that simple. If they break I have a replacement. They are made by a good handful of companies so not stuck with just one either. At that point the prices are then not competitive. Yes they can also get really expensive.
hexanerax06 [OP] 1 points 2y ago
I will take you up on that offer to chat and I am sure your experience can be very useful in my research.
[deleted] 1 points 2y ago
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