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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 05 - 01 - ID#n2plt6
45
The push for social equality left the disabled behind. (self.Blind)
submitted by blind_system
We see all the time how minorities are finally gaining a voice, but what about the disabled? we're still discriminated against, and people would rather just look past it. Whenever you bring up serious problems to sighted people, they just say "oh, that sucks" and move on, or try to dismiss it. Whenever I hear people on this site asking some stupid question about the blind, it makes me think about how we're still stuck in the past. Why isn't there a social movement for the disable as well?
_-_-Anonymous-_-_ 22 points 2y ago
Because a lot of social justice movements have been about how we are all human, we are all worth the same regardless of orientation, race, etc. This means though that when society comes across a minority like the blind, who arent different in a way people can relate to (how being gay is the same kind of love as being straight, how black skin is just like white skin) they dont know what to think. They dont know how to quantify our struggles or even fathom how they could affect us, hence they ignore us completely. The issues disabled people face are ingrained in the very evolution of society, much like racism and misogyny. But the difference is unless you actively seek out that information, society doesnt talk about it. No one knows about the "ugly laws" and how biased that time was. No one knows that the majority of contributions to the advancement of technology or science has been through someone disabled, and no one thinks to explain to their children that being disabled isnt different in s bad way. Its scary because its different but its not bad. So to answer your question- there are movements gor blind people, and for autistic people and gor chronically disabled people. But not many people care to listen...
ChellVaquita 10 points 2y ago
Completely agree with your comment, it is absolute ignorance. Plus a lot of these ‘movements’ are just cardboard activism, people jumping on the bandwagon for ‘clout’ or attention.
phistomefel_smeik 3 points 2y ago
Or money, in case of big enterprizes. Changing your logo to rainbow-colors cost you literally nothing but is a great ad-campaign, while you can still treat your employees like shit.
_-_-Anonymous-_-_ 3 points 2y ago
🙌
CosmicBunny97 10 points 2y ago
We need to create a disability pride movement. We need to change the language able-bodied people use for disabled people - confined to a wheelchair, suffering from blindness etc. we need to change the way we look at disability overall - bring the social model of disability into the limelight.
laconicflow 4 points 2y ago
I'm fully blind, and I think I disagree.

As far as I can tell, I'm just like everybody else, inus a pair of working eyes.

And there are implications to missing vision.

Like, it seems to me a lot of people want to pretend disability is sommething besides a problem.

My mom broke her back and was in a wheelchair for the rest of her life.

And, an, if I could have snapped my fingers and fixed her spine, I'd have done it, social model of disability be damned.

It's like, I don't have pride that I can't see. I have pride in myself, and if I accomplish something, I'm proud. And, sometimes if I do something that's easy for a normal person and harder for a blind person, I feel pride.

But why would I feel pride for being born with a maming injurry.

It's like, Michael Jordan was lucky enough to be born with a body that could play basketball really, really well.

And being born with a disability's just the other side of that coin.
MamaAvalon 3 points 2y ago
> I don't have pride that I can't see. I have pride in myself

That's what disability pride is though. Not being able to see is part of yourself. And it's an important part. It gives you a different perspective. Andrea Bocelli didn't start singing until after he became blind. Sometimes when we lack an ability in one area, we develop a superability in another area. Sometimes it causes us to invent things that benefit all of society (like how people in wheelchairs lobbied for curb cuts and it also benefitted millions of soccer moms trying to hold a toddlers hand while pushing a baby in a stroller). Being "just like everyone else" isn't really a goal. Diversity is beautiful. We all have different strengths, weaknesses, skin colors, sexualities, religions, nationalities, learning styles, working styles, ways of going about things, preferences, aptitudes etc. The disability pride movement is about acceptance. We're not broken, we just do things differently. Disabled people are capable. We're valuable. We're worthy of a seat at the table. That's what disability pride means.
cyndn 3 points 2y ago
Such a pride movement already exists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disability_Pride_Parades?wprov=sfla1
It needs more attention though.
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
I'd be really careful about this stuff. The social model idea tends to push people into wishful thinking or yearning for a world that is never going to exist. The world is mainly set up for people who can see and while I'm all for people making accommodations when they can I am not going to pretend that we can somehow flatten every single difference that exists, or that I would ever be able to do exactly the stuff that someone who can see can do. The only way you can do that is to force everyone to walk around with blindfolds on all day. It becomes an unscratchable itch, you're setting yourself up to be perpetually unsatisfied with the world. Reasonable accommodations, sure, but assuming that every single thing I can't do is because of some unfairness in society is just divisive.
MamaAvalon 2 points 2y ago
>The only way you can do that is to force everyone to walk around with blindfolds on all day.

That's not what the social model of disability is all about. It's about recognizing that sometimes, society accommodates abled people moreso than disabled people and that's not really fair. If sighted people can go to the library and check out a book, then blind people should be able to do the same. If people who ambulate using their legs can go in to a workplace or government building, then people who use wheelchairs and walkers should be able to as well. It isn't about giving everyone the exact same treatment or experience but rather about making sure everyone can be served and included to the maximum extent possible. We can't cause blind people to see books or full-time wheelchair users to walk but we CAN give blind people access to information and wheelchair users access to buildings.
laconicflow 2 points 2y ago
And the thing is it's also wrong.

It seems like there are blind people who think they should be able to join the army as sharpshooters, and when they kill no enemies, that's the social model of disability. Foolishness.

The way I look at it, I'll do the things I can, and leave the rest to other people.

So, if you say you won't read a poem I wrote because I'm blind, that's discrimination, and is bad. But if you say you won't let me drive you to get a cup of coffee because I'm blind, that's common sense, and is good.
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
Yes. Although I don't even think you have to take it to those crazy extremes. The thing that winds me up most of all is that it takes me a hell of a lot more time to do a lot of things than it would if I could see. The example often given in descriptions of the social model is stairlifts for wheelchair users. Okay fine great put in a stairlift but that's still going to take a lot longer than just skipping down the stairs on foot, just like it took me longer to put this post in than it would if I could just look at the monitor and grab the mouse.

That's not discrimination, that's just life. It's not great but I'm not going to become a boring activist over it because there's nothing much that can be done about it. I'm going to concentrate all that valuable time on dealing with it and moving on because that's what gets me the best life.
dunktheball 6 points 2y ago
yeah it's always just a few randomly picked groups the media cares about. Also, using websites has become worse than ever, in my opinion... if I have biggish fonts then next to nothing works properly. I know this is about more than that, but it's really annoying me. lol.
wyongriver 6 points 2y ago
In Australia part of the story is that the eye charities have been “captured” by sighted people.

They aren’t keen to rock the boat. So if there is a test legal case about a blind kid staying at school that kid’s family needs to raise money and find volunteers for legals etc. The blind charities won’t touch it. That’s because that industry is too small - they can’t change jobs to the relevant government department adferwards.

It’s about understanding it and living it. I know that the people in charge of our charities understand the issues but they haven’t been to a job interview with a guide dog. Or tried to get to a location outside of public transport. Or experienced banking discrimination.

We need to take the leadership back. Blind and low vision people should lead blind and low vision charities.
bradley22 3 points 2y ago
Yes, yes they should.
ChellVaquita 6 points 2y ago
Honestly you’re exactly right. We need to speak up more, time to use our voices!
letspaintthesky 5 points 2y ago
Because people forget about us. They just don't care until it stares them in the face. It's sad, and maddening, but true.
zersiax 5 points 2y ago
I'm not sure where you are located, OP, but in most places I am familiar with have quite a bit of equality, both social and other, lobbying going on. In the US companies that belong to a particular category can get sued for being inaccessible, more and more companies are trying to make their workforce more diverse which includes people with a disability, that is stuff a lot of places in Europe are only now slowly starting to do. If you mean lobbying similar to the BlackLivesMatter movement, I'd say that being refused an uber ride because of a guide dog is slightly less problematic than being gunned down by a trigger-happy cop with a bee in his bonnet for having the wrong skin color.

Not saying blind people aren't being discriminated against, we are. Not saying we are not being excluded, we absolutely are. I'm saying there's quite a bit happening on this front. How effective said happenings are, however, is a different matter, and that brings me to your point regarding "sighties" often being somewhat ambivalent. As a blind person you know what the NFB, ACB and friends are doing, and you also know what they're doing if you happen to be a company that gets targeted by them. Everybody else though, is largely unaffected, and therefore unbothered by this until it's brought to their attention, and even then, most of the time people just can't properly imagine what it's like to have that kind of exclusionism and discrimination leveled against you, it's either too subtle or too alien. And all the dumb money-grabbing commercials that portray blind/visually impaired people as helpless without the benevolent sighted overlords really aren't helping that case, see also: that "feel the need" commercial done by the RNIB several years ago.

I dare to honestly bet that most people consider people with a disability, and that includes PWDs themselves, as being either lesser, worse off or in some way less able to go for all that life has to offer them. That view needs to change, and change radically, before we can properly start a conversation about equality and proper inclusion. After all, pets, children and zoo animals don't get to decide what's best for them, nor do people in a mental institution, nor do people who need a handler to get around. Unfortunately a LOT, a huge lot of people put pretty much all people with a disability in that same category at least initially, and convincing people so far can really only be done one at a time.
MamaAvalon 3 points 2y ago
>being refused an uber ride because of a guide dog is slightly less problematic than being gunned down by a trigger-happy cop with a bee in his bonnet for having the wrong skin color.

Huh? You do realize people with disabilities are wrongly killed by the police all the time too. In many areas, police and crisis resolution aren't trained at all about how to handle people with disabilities. People are often shot or situations escalated because they didn't respond to orders because they're autistic, have intellectual disabilities, or are deaf.

For example, Ethan Saylor was a 26 year old man with Down Syndrome who purchased a ticket to a movie but wanted to stay for a second showing. He didn't understand that the ticket only allowed him access to a single show. He was unarmed and did not pose a threat but he was killed by police for the crime of having an intellectual disability in public, very much similar to how people are sadly killed for being black in public. In fact as many as HALF of people who are killed by police have one or more disabilities. The issues of racism and ableism in our institutions and justice system are not in competition with one another - they're highly intertwined.

$1
BlueRock956 4 points 2y ago
Check out Crip Camp. You'll learn quite a bit about the movement you are looking for.
MamaAvalon 3 points 2y ago
Yeah but where is it? That was in the 1970s. We need another uprising like that to fight for additional rights like defining "reasonable accommodation" more clearly, holding companies accountable for violating ADA, fair pay and meaningful work for all disabled people who want it etc.
BlueRock956 1 points 2y ago
The uprizing that you are talking about is still active. Its actually much stronger at the moment. That's why I refered you to Crip Camp, its not only a film telling us what happened in the 70s.
MamaAvalon 2 points 2y ago
I haven't seen or found an uprising anywhere that is at all similar to the one in crip camp. There are no people sleeping in the offices of health and human services or other government buildings. There's no one marching in the street. Heck, we can barely get a disability pride parade going. Where is this uprising?
BlueRock956 1 points 2y ago
The point of overtaking the government building and organizing marches was to get media attention so that the government would meet them to address their legislative priorities.
BlueRock956 1 points 2y ago
The work is seen through the legislative actions that different organizations have taken. For example, the NFB's legislative priorities in Washington Seminar 2021 were addressing the cost of technology, the accessibility of home medical devices, the accessibility of the web and mobile apps, and our right to an accessible vote.
These efforts were done in a virtual mode, and it went well.
torelma 2 points 2y ago
I mean, those two things are not mutually exclusive. I also think it's very country dependent since like, that's something where consciousness has to be raised among the general population before anything at all can happen, and I'm glad to see that happen both for social issues and for disability.

For instance, my country has had what basically amounts to affirmative action for workers with disabilities since the mid 2000s. I'm not going to say everything is perfect because some people have still said some dumb ass shit but it goes a long way towards people realising you can have a disability and still work a number of jobs provided you have the relevant kind of accessibility support.

What's elegant about it is that the cost of making a workstation accessible (eg you're a VI office worker and they give you a lamp, or you're a wheelchair user and they put in an elevator, or whatever) is picked up by a fund, which itself is paid into by big companies not meeting their quota of disabled workers, which virtually none of them do since we're disproportionately more likely to be away from the workplace. So in the end it's not a fine so much as an investment into making hiring disabled workers more viable by making workstations more accessible.
torelma 1 points 2y ago
Having moved to a job in a different country where there isn't this structural support for disabilities, and I quickly realized talking to the workplace doctor that they saw my disability as a liability and potentially a lawsuit waiting to happen. I only even brought it up so HR wouldn't think I was coming to work high, and they thought I was asking for preferential treatment.

As in, I'm VI with a degenerative retinal condition, working in front of a computer screen 8 hours a day, and they're scared I'm going to sue them if I think it's making me blinder. That... pisses me off.
niamhweking 2 points 2y ago
I'm part of a support group for parents of kids with VI in ireland and we do advocacy because school is where the kids are being left behind. People think now that the children have been integrated into mainstream schools (like all disabilities) and they have their classroom assistant and large print books then the kids are fine, but they're not. Also one way to get the publics support and teach them is to do a media piece, a child struggling, a parent trying to fight for rights etc, but none of our kids and parents want to go forward to do a news piece or article. They don't want to publicly piss of the school their kid is in or the visiting teacher that they have until the kid is 18. They're afraid of rocking the boat and their child being put in a worse position than they are now. The 3 or 4 governments agencies and charities that help the VI and blind are all rivals and don't work together, instead they all protect their own piece of the pie and funding.

So we only have a handful of people that can legally teach braille to kids and they have to get trained in another country, but they only work school term, so really the kid misses out on a lot as we have one of the shortest school years. But the charity that teaches adults braille is not allowed to teach the kids over the summer. Parents can only learn braille in 1 place in the capital and have to pay alot to do it.

There is no joined up thinking.

The majority charities , autism, downs syndrome, gets loads of publicity, not necessarily government help but help and knowledge in society, supermarkets do weekly quiet shopping days, everyone knows someone with a kid with autism and TV has characters with autism. So society learns about them.

Sorry rant over!
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
The behaviour of some schools I've encountered has been utterly horrible. I'm in England and honestly, while they're really tough on parents taking their kids out of school for a two week holiday, they're perfectly happy for those kids to sit around for three to five months while the local authority makes some sort of assessment. It's crazy.

That said I wouldn't worry too much about braille, I've been blind for 20 years, work as a self employed session guitarist and am a co director of a business and I never learned it. Too hard, too slow, too expensive. But maybe I'm projecting.
niamhweking 1 points 2y ago
Yes I agree completely. Luckily my LO doesn't need braille but those that do have certainly fallen behind the last year and with another summer holiday with no support by Sept they could be struggling
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
What I would say in this case is that braille is not the be all end all. As I say I run a business and a freelance career without it (I mean, I can read colours off clothing tags and numbers and stuff but not much more). Honestly I have no idea what blind people did before computers and the internet, but that's another issue entirely. I would view the ability to fly around a phone and a laptop and deal with a wide variety of online services, such as web mail, things like google docs and microsoft office, as a hell of a lot more valuable than braille. If you can't use Skype and Google Hangouts and Zoom, send text messages and handle things like forwarding emails and texts, and all that stuff on your phone and your laptop these days you are way, way on the back foot as regards employability. Nobody cares if you can read braille. Everyone cares if you can quickly comprehend an email, open the attachments and go through them, then jump on a zoom call and talk about it.

If you want to handle all those things via a braille display, fine, great, go ahead, but the ability to do it at all is absolutely crucial.
niamhweking 1 points 2y ago
Luckily it doesn't affect us, but I'm wondering if the Visiting teachers are holding on to it then as a " we're so important only we can teach it" I agree tech and navigating a range of everyday devices is a life skill they need.
Iamheno 2 points 2y ago
My ¢.02. It starts with me.

I’m not blind. I am a person with blindness.

i‘m not disabled. My abilities are just different than the average person.

I don’t demand or expect special treatment I expect to be treated as I treat others, with respect, compassion and empathy. How can I expect people to care about me if I don’t show I care about them?

It starts with me.
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
I'm not sure I necessarily agree with a lot of the comments being made here.

I don't think disability is being left out of the debate, least of all blind people, and I don't get the impression anyone is trying to dismiss anything. Society has been programmed for years and years not to treat people unfairly and I think if it comes up that you are blind and people change the subject it's because they are so terrified of saying something wrong. I don't think people are ignoring it, I think they're hyper aware of it, they're just terrified of being accused of saying something wrong. Personally I'd much rather it was overlooked. If I need something I will ask for it but for now, let's just have a glass of wine and talk about something else.

The whole social justice thing is pushing equality issues super hard, it's crazy to say it isn't, and I do think it sometimes goes too far, accusing people of having certain views just because they're a certain gender or race or not disabled or whatever. Whether it's true or not that is not fair and it's not a good way to get people on side. Sometimes people will say dumb stuff which would annoy anyone, but it's not a good idea to come off as an activist. It risks making people's whole impression of you as a person about the disability which is exactly what you didn't want in the first place.

I had a couple years of normal adult life with sight so I know what life is like in both situations. I would encourage people to look for an innocent explanation for what someone has said before leaping to take offence. I have had people complain about stuff to me that just sounds like normal conversation or at best someone just being awkward and a bit stupid, not deliberately unfair. If you go out looking for it you will find it and I don't think that does you any favours long term.
laconicflow 0 points 2y ago
I've never wanted to build my identity around being blind. If I'm listing identifiers, blind is there, but not first.

If I was a person who was working construction and lost a hand, I wouldn't want, from then on, to think of myself first and foremost as one-handed, to me that would be giving a disability more strength than it deserves.

And it also seems to me that culturally being blind is fine. There isn't some cultural hatred towards blind people, most of the stereotypes are benine, and most people who can see are well-meaning, most of the time.

And the other thing is, I don't want to whine yell and scream about how I'm a victim and helpless, and from this place of fetishized weakness, I demand society do certain things. That feels gross to me.

Like, if they start murdering blind people for being blind, then I'll get all social justice.

But to me what you're talking about seems like begging for pitty.

And I really don't want to craft my identity on a physsical weakness.

Like, I'm cool being me, I like being me, I've made my peace with being blind and I can appreciate the disadvantages, but blindness is a disability, I think it's something you try to overcome and minimize whereever possible.
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