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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 06 - 03 - ID#nrrv2n
54
I Create Audio Description for Netflix -- How Can The Service Be Improved? (self.Blind)
submitted by WadjetAD
Hello, my name's John.

I create audio description for film, television and other visual media. While blind and low-vision individuals provide quality assurance for my company's work, I am seeking to cast a wider net and understand the perspective of people who aren't in the industry and just enjoy using audio description. I hope by asking stylistic questions on this forum I can better understand my audience and create a better experience for everyone who uses this access service.

My first two questions relate to on-screen text.

1. How important is it to hear a film's opening cast and credits? Does hearing an actors name said in the credits help you recognize their voice later in the film, and is that important to you? Would you prefer opening credits be moved to the end credit roll to provide as much room for description of action as possible?
2. How important is it that you understand *how* on-screen text information is presented? For example, in a big-budget action movie a visual effects artist may have been hired to spice up on-screen text. A description might read: 'The words "Three Weeks Later" emerge from flames'. I have found that by combining only the pertinent information ('Three Weeks Later') with a description of action, more of the visuals can be communicated. For instance, 'Three weeks later, Donnie adjusts his sunglasses in the rearview mirror.' My thinking, especially when text is vanilla, is that sighted viewers don't think 'Text appears:' when they read text in a movie; the content of the text is communicated seamlessly through their visual perception. For the same reason, I think it makes sense to omit 'Text appears:' from description; blind viewers will know inherently that something visual is communicating the content of the text. What do you think?

I will continue this series of fine-tuning questions to constantly improve audio description's quality and the audience's experience. If you have ideas to improve description's quality or want to point out conventions in description that bug the heck out of you, reach out and let me know -- you have a direct line to the source. If you have any suggestions regarding how I could make these forum posts more accessible please let me know in a comment or direct message.

Thank you for enjoying film and television, and being a part of this community.

Sincerely,

John Gray
KillerLag 10 points 2y ago
For question 2, I like to know how the on-screen text is presented if it is more than just pure text and/or relevant to the show.

For example, in Black Panther, the text sometimes appears in Wakandan text, that then turns to English.

Another example is in Elementary, when Sherlock Holmes sends a text and it appears on the screen. Knowing the text is in the form of a text message from a phone is important to context.
DrillInstructorJan 1 points 2y ago
I'm definitely with you on this, I want as much detail as there's time to talk about, even if it isn't that important to the plot. It's a movie, I'm inevitably missing out on loads of the movie experience and I want as much of the movie as I can get.
bradley22 1 points 2y ago
I completely agree.
ginsenshi 7 points 2y ago
I would love to see when a Japanese anime has no English dub track, that the subtitles would include the audio description.
WadjetAD [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Do you mean you'd like the audio description to be presented like the subtitles as onscreen text? Or do you mean you'd like the subtitles to be read by the describer?
ginsenshi 1 points 2y ago
if the audio description was with the subtitles , tts could read the audio description along with the other dialogue .

If there’s no English audio description


Sorry my brain isn’t clear this morning
[deleted] 1 points 2y ago
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DrillInstructorJan 5 points 2y ago
Describe as much as there's time to do, regardless whether it's germane to the plot. It's a movie, I want as much of the movie as I can have. I used to be able to see fine and I am fully aware what I'm missing, so that may differ with other people. I want to know about the fact that the transformers logo assembles itself out of mechanical parts. I can hear it doing that, I want to know what's going on.

The only thing I'd say about AD in general is that often the describers speak quite slowly, which is frustrating when there's clearly lots of things to know about. OK, the majority of blind people are old, maybe a bit slow and a bit deaf so you have to find a happy medium, but it can be annoying.

Some describers avoid talking over dialogue like it's a religious requirement. Obviously you don't want to crash into major plot points, but if characters are searching for someone and shouting that person's name, often the describer carefully avoids it every time. In Jurassic Park we've heard them shout "Doctor Grant!" a dozen times, it's background noise at that point. Tell me about the flashlight beams lancing through the forest.

Finally can we please have a way that I can listen to the AD on earbuds while everyone else just hears the normal audio? One way to do it would be to put an option in the Netflix app on people's TVs so that it can send the AD out of one of the surround sound outputs which many people do not use. I am reasonably sure that is technically feasible.
WadjetAD [OP] 4 points 2y ago
Thanks for your detailed response. I completely agree with your 'Dr. Grant!' point (that part always annoyed me as a kid anyway -- I can hear Laura Dern shouting to this day XD). I generally describe over repeated dialogue, thanks for confirming I've made the right choice.

As for your earbud suggestion -- I'm working on it! It's a feature I'd like to implement in movie theaters as well.
rgarfinkel 1 points 1y ago
Movie theaters have had audio descriptions available: Regal ($1) and AMC (https://www.amctheatres.com/assistive-moviegoing/guest-guide) are two that I've seen logos at the door at the movie theater. You have to request a headset, but it's free.
WadjetAD [OP] 2 points 1y ago
While the experience is available, it could be improved. I've heard from so many people say that the headsets they provide malfunction quite frequently. Also, from my experience using them, they bleed audio and irritate the viewers I am sitting next to.
ThisBlindChickReads 4 points 2y ago
One of the important things that I listen for us if they audio description is overlapping actual dialog. Netflix audio descriptions are usually very good at this. Another thing I enjoy about theNetflix descriptions I have heard us that they are not robotic ... I can't say how much I appreciate this.

With your specific question, what about a different voice to read text on screen? Similar to what already happens with subtitles. That would help us not miss anything that may or may not be important to us but also let us know it is not necessarily part of the actual on screen description? So, If a female voice is doing the main narration, then a male voice would read the title cards?
[deleted] 2 points 2y ago
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autistictechgirl1990 3 points 2y ago
Hi
Yes it’s important to hear credits as I like to look up the actors after
rp-turtle 2 points 2y ago
I hope I am understanding your questions correctly in my answers:

1. I don’t mind the opening credits being read so long as it doesn’t distract from other visual elements. For example, if the intro scene is a song playing while the camera moves around a house or something, all while credits are flashing on the screen, I’d rather know what’s going on with the camera than hearing the credits because the AD could be describing what kind of house it is and therefore more of the visual set of the movie if a lot of scenes take place there. Basically, that way, during a later scene while characters are arguing in the kitchen, I can visualize the kitchen more accurately/better because I know from the intro scene that the kitchen is mostly white with modern chrome designs and slate grey counter tops which, I think, effects the mood of the scene/how it’s perceived compared to if the kitchen was never described in the intro scene and I just made how it looks up since I have no info on it. Otherwise, I don’t care about credits being read ever really because if I want that info, I’ll go look it up. The only rare time it’s useful to me is when I recognize a voice but can’t quite recall their name, but that only applies to end credits and is quite infrequent.

2. Overall, I’ll agree with other commenters here and say it’s probably better to just air on the side of providing as much info as possible. If the text is at all not vanilla plane white text, I want to know that 100% of the time because it could convey something about the plot of the movie or just contribute to the overall experience. For example, if the series/film is a spy thriller and the text that appears on screen is always in a cool coding digital blue font, that would be cool to know because it’s purposefully inline with the aesthetic of the series/film. When it comes to the vanilla white text however, I say announce that “text appears” if theres time. Personally, I like knowing that it was text appearing on screen because it helps the constant visualizing of the movie going on in my head feel more realistic/accurate. I think I also do not always make the assumption that, if AD says “three weeks later” without announcing that text appeared, it was made clear visually too. That’s just me though.

Also, I would love if you could do a post on how a film/series goes about being selected for description. I think it would be cool if there was a way for blind/VI viewers to vote/submit content they want described most so the industry could have a way of prioritizing what gets AD and when. Last thought, I would love if you could speed up the speech rate for AD sometimes because, during action scenes, theres so much going on to be described and they’re speaking way too slowly to get it all. Thank you for reaching out to the community to get more perspectives!
WadjetAD [OP] 3 points 2y ago
Woah, great response! In brief, films and series are selected for various reasons. If it's an older film, description is usually created when there's a rerelease (a movie getting the Criterion Collection treatment, for example). Often times access services companies like mine simply see a series that doesn't have description and make a bid to whoever distributes that series to describe it. What makes them say 'yes' is a complex combination of factors, some of which I'm not privy to.

I love the idea of a polling system to indicate demand because that would make the process so much more deliberate. Sometimes I'm writing on an incredibly obscure movie and think, 'Like two people are going to hear this.' Then I constantly see posts online like the person's above which says they want to listen to 'The Lord of the Rings' and I wonder, 'How is that not described?'

The problem is that not all distribution companies have their heart in making description to the same degree. It's cynical but true that the majority of distributers will produce description for whatever random titles, as long as they meet the mandated amount of described content they must put out. I think a platform to give them a direct line to what people want might influence them to target their efforts more effectively.
rp-turtle 1 points 2y ago
I am so happy my reply made sense lol. Thank you for the info about how/why something ends up getting described.thats very interesting.

I am curious as to who should manage this hypothetical polling system. Should companies like yours (the ones doing the scripting and actual describing) conduct the polling in an effort to make your bids more persuasive to distributors or should the distributors themselves do it so they can better select which bids to accept and deny? I think the company doing the describing should do it for two reasons. First, I do think it would be pretty persuasive in getting more bids accepted if you could show up with data demonstrating higher levels of interest (which will translate to more streams on their platform from the blind/VI people that wanted the content described) for given content. I just think it could probably be framed as a “effective business decision” easier when submitting a bid to a distributor that way. Second, as you mentioned, often times, distributors don’t really care what gets described and are sometimes only getting things described because they were legally forced so I don’t see them taking the initiative to develop/maintain this AD polling system. I also know literally nothing about the industry so if you think otherwise, super curious to hear why. Also, I think the polling platform would work best if all the AD companies used just one but I could see how maybe that results in more competition. There are also lots of logistics that would probably need to be worked out but I really do think it’s a great idea and wish it was a thing. I think another alternative is that distributors use their existing streaming data to decide what to get described because they can just assume that the blind/VI community has similar viewing patterns to the rest of their consumers.
WadjetAD [OP] 2 points 2y ago
My thinking is in line with your reasoning here. I think creating and managing a polling system like that would not only serve the community but also give the company that creates the most popular poll an edge. Thanks for the great idea!
SeptemberJoy 2 points 2y ago
1. I prefer to hear the opening credits. If they need to be concise to fit with description of action I'd prefer that than extra detail with the credits moved to the end.

2. It may be my inner screenwriter talking, but if there are significant stylistic differences to text I'd like to know. E.G. does the text appearing from flames hint to something later in the movie, does the title appear from code suggesting The Matrix is a program, etc. As another commenter said - it helps to know if it's a text message, if they're reading a letter, if Mulder and Scully are at FBI Headquarters...

I also wanted to take the opportunity to highlight the \*amazing\* work done on Sense8. I've watched it both with and without AD multiple times and while I usually feel the AD is best when unobtrusive... the narrator's performance was out of this world.
napoleon88 2 points 2y ago
compression/EQ is sometimes an issue. The description is either much louder than the dialogue, or with a load more bass. This means that you get very quiet bits of dialogue, interspersed with booming audio description tracks that rumble the floor a bit. Or you get that compression pumping artifact where the volume raises and lowers very rapidly, which is disconcerting, especially if its happening constantly.
bradley22 2 points 2y ago
1. I’m from the UK and they used to have the credits spoken at the end of the movie, I don’t mind knowing who played who but can take it or leave it.

2. I don’t mind either way.
Lust4Me 2 points 2y ago
Not what you asked but perhaps you can pass this along...

For visually impaired (or anyone, really), the font of subtitles on our Netflix service is too thin and often white on a light background scene. That makes it very difficult to read foreign shows (in my case, anime). I end up streaming from other services.

Is this a function of the downstream TV app, or something in the control of Netflix as a provider?
MostlyBlindGamer 3 points 2y ago
There are subtitle font settings in your Netflix profile (on the website), but some apps ignore them.
mantolwen 2 points 2y ago
I have noticed that subtitles on my laptop are different to my tablet when I am watching Netflix. The laptop subtitles are much more traditional (thick white and outlined) but the tablet is modern and thin.
ginsenshi 2 points 2y ago
If you’re using Netflix on a iOS device you can go into accessibility settings and captions/subtitles and it will modify the subtitles on screen to a solid background and the text to whatever size is needed
Frikandelneuker 1 points 1y ago
Blind guy here. Please have more actions described. Thanks! :D
Rogue_Henchman 1 points 1y ago
I'm curious are the audio descriptions from the actual script?
WadjetAD [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Generally, no. The AD script is originated by the AD writer. In some cases a screenplay is provided as a reference for the writer. The video we write off of isn't always top quality, so action from the script sometimes makes it into the AD script if what's onscreen is unintelligible to the writer. This may also happen if the writer is working off a video which has not yet gotten visual effects that are described in the script.
Rethunker 1 points 2y ago
To go meta on a post nearly a week old: **this** is what a survey post should be. Nicely done, John!
CloudyBeep 1 points 2y ago
I'm opposed to omitting "words appear" from descriptions. Imagine the following lines from a hypothetical audio description script.

a. Text appears: "Three days earlier." John steps out of a taxi and enters a glass building.

b. Three days earlier. John steps out of a taxi and enters a glass building.

c. Three days earlier, John steps out of a taxi and enters a glass building.

Removing the indicator makes c seemingly an interpretation of what has happened, and it's only distinguishable from b by intonation, which users may not pick up on. Users deserve to know which parts of their experience are being interpreted by the describer and which are part of the movie itself. It would not be inconceivable to assume that it is an interpretation—imagine if an event from earlier in the film had occurred three days prior to the current point in time.
Morzorak 1 points 2y ago
I appreciate the work Netflix and yourself do. Please keep it up. Do you think at some point there will be a push to AD the back catalogue of 70 years of television and movies?
I don’t think I would like seperate voices announcing different aspects (text vs action, etc). I believe that would be distracting and cumbersome.
The credits should be announced, but I see these falling under a priority scheme. Meaning, put them after the movie/show so the information is there, but not taking up the valuable real-estate at the beginning.
WadjetAD [OP] 1 points 2y ago
Thanks for your perspective. Yes. In fact, production companies are already describing the back catalogues. The thing is, they've made A TON of movies! From my experience, it seems they're mired in the 90's and 00's, working their way back from their most recent films.
weirdlywondering1127 1 points 2y ago
Might be a stupid idea but as someone with some vision I find the full audio description awkward and annoying when I can see what's going on but there's times I'd really need it like subtitles, title cards, if a person is reading text messages on screen, etc...

It would be great to have more preferences/options for AD
WadjetAD [OP] 3 points 2y ago
Not stupid at all. I've heard this suggestion quite a bit and it speaks to me especially because the low-vision people in my life don't use AD for this reason. I want to create this option, but since I only make the content and don't distribute it, I don't have the power to change this yet. It's on the list.
weirdlywondering1127 1 points 2y ago
The fact that you're even taking the time to read through these comments means a lot even if you don't have the means to get to everything people are suggesting.
chrystalalex 1 points 2y ago
Hi John. In answer to your first question, I'd prefer the opening credits be shifted to the end to make room for more scene description.
As for your second question, I totally agree with you. It would certainly make the audio description sound more natural I think.
[deleted] 1 points 2y ago
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charliesdesk 1 points 2y ago
Hi John,

Keep up the good work! I like the voice on trailer park boys. She really fits the show, without standing out too much. It is nice to hit that inbetween vibe of a well matched voice, like in the hobbit movies too, but that isnt too emotive, kind of like a good straight man in a comedy routine. What I wish most of
All is just more audio description
WadjetAD [OP] 2 points 2y ago
Thank you! I appreciate you bringing up shows with description you enjoy. I get a lot of good ideas from listening to other companies' description, and knowing which description actual people enjoyed helps me get a better idea of what works.
charliesdesk 1 points 2y ago
If you can influence them to make audio description for LOTR that’d be great
WadjetAD [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I just wrote the audio description for *The Fellowship of the Ring* and *The Return of the King.* I'm not sure why they didn't choose to create description for *The Two Towers* as well. Probably a licensing issue. Harumph! Your post stuck with me and I'm so jazzed to come back and report that at least the first and the third movie in the trilogy will soon be accessible.
WadjetAD [OP] 1 points 2y ago
I'm surprised they have it for *Hobbit* and not the original trilogy. There are a lot of entities involved in giving a movie/series the green light to be audio described, but I'll see what I can do. That's a series I'd love to write on!
charliesdesk 1 points 2y ago
The hobbit came out later. I think it has to do with laws in england because the potter films have it too
Morzorak 1 points 2y ago
I agree. Admittedly I’m only on season 7, and the thing that drives me nuts is how the AD pronounces sh*t mobile. She puts the long I in (moe bile). Arg!
rumster 1 points 2y ago
From friends - You do a lot of good work for movie buffs I know of. :D
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