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Do you also feel like ableism is taken far more lightly by most people than other types of discrimination (racism, sexism, homophobia etc.)? (self.Blind)
submitted by Arcane_Panacea
tl;dr: Basically the title, but it's worth to read the rest ;-)
Hello everyone
I'm feeling a bit upset at the moment because I've just had a VERY unpleasant exchange with a redditor on another sub. Some self-proclaimed comedian asked the question: "How do blind people know when to stop wiping their ass?" I can't even tell you in words how fucking sick I am of this question. It's been asked on Reddit roughly eighteen quadrillion times and somehow people STILL think it's an incredibly funny and original question. To be clear about this right at the start, I actually find this question ableist, too (and that's partially why I hate it so much). There are soooo many interesting questions that sighted people could be curious about when it comes to blindness: how do blind people shop their groceries? How do they find a romantic partner? How do they perform certain jobs? But nope, the only thing sighted people are interested in is how we use the bathroom. Because "of course", that's the only relevant thing blind people do in their lives, right?! It's like if the ONLY thing white people were interested in about black people was how they find clothes that work well with their skin tone (implying black people have no bigger problems in their lives than shopping clothes).
But that's actually not the thing that made me really hurt and angry. What really brought me over the edge was a comment - not just any comment but THE TOP COMMENT - which read "taste test". Again, this is a comment I've seen thousands of times before on reddit. Lots of sighted people seem to find it awfully humorous. I don't. When I replied with "Ah yes, casual ableism, how funny /s" (meant in a sarcastic way), the guy got angry and told me to stop being a pussy and "take a fucking joke".
Although I've seen this type of comment many times before and I had always felt hurt by it, it was only today that I suddenly understood WHAT about it exactly makes me feel upset. When people say that blind people need to eat their own feces to figure out if their ass is clean, they're essentially saying that being blind is equivalent to being stupid. Simply because I'm blind, I'm now casually compared to the guy who sits on the streetcorner licking his own elbow and drawing pictures into his shit. This is one of the oldest stereotypes about blind people. Just like people used to think every black person is a criminal, they apparently still think that every blind person is a moron. Or at least they like to casually joke about this cliché.
Perhaps the worst part about it is the gaslighting though. If, as a blind guy, I dare to speak up and express my offense, I'm told to shut up, not be a wuss and take a "harmless" joke.
Now, let's turn this into a different form of discrimination for a moment:
Person A: The reason ni**ers have such big dicks is because they don't have a brain!
Person B: Woah dude, that's really insulting! Stop saying shit like that!
Person A: OMG stop being such a pussy and take a joke, it's really not a big deal!
Person A sounds like a giant, racist piece of shit, no?? If someone acted this way on reddit, they would no doubt be downvoted into oblivion and probably be banned, at least temporarily.
And obviously, that's how it should be. Yet, when it's about disabled and especially blind people, both discriminatory jokes and gaslighting are not only accepted but even upvoted, so they become top comments. My remark of offense was downvoted, by the way.
I have made similarly disturbing experiences offline. For example my older brother is an insufferable ableist. He considers himself progressive and even a feminist, never makes sexist, racist or anti-LGBT comments but some of the things he's said to me are truly shocking. There are things he said to me 15 or 20 years ago and I still remember them because they hurt me so much. Yet, every single time I tried to talk about it with my parents or my sister, I get the same reaction: "oh c'mon, don't be so uptight. You know he's only joking. You need to grow up and be a little relaxed about these things." So, essentially my brother can say ANYTHING to me, I can't expect compassion, let alone support from the rest of my family. Even my best friend (who is sighted) once told me to loosen up about these things when he was drunk and his tongue became loose. Literally the ONLY person I know who understands me in this regard is my wife. She's also able-bodied but she's got a lot of empathy.
Anyway, is it just me or do you also feel like able-bodied people take ableism far more lightly? Other forms of discrimination are considered a huge deal (which is good!) but ableist remarks are usually disregarded as "casual jokes". Why is this? It makes me so frustrated and depressed. I've tried explaining my frustration to sighted people (such as my parents) but they wouldn't even listen. They pretend to listen and at the end of my explanation they say something like: "yes, yes, I understand you're upset but that's why you should stop being so over-sensitive about harmless jokes." Ugh.
Hello everyone
I'm feeling a bit upset at the moment because I've just had a VERY unpleasant exchange with a redditor on another sub. Some self-proclaimed comedian asked the question: "How do blind people know when to stop wiping their ass?" I can't even tell you in words how fucking sick I am of this question. It's been asked on Reddit roughly eighteen quadrillion times and somehow people STILL think it's an incredibly funny and original question. To be clear about this right at the start, I actually find this question ableist, too (and that's partially why I hate it so much). There are soooo many interesting questions that sighted people could be curious about when it comes to blindness: how do blind people shop their groceries? How do they find a romantic partner? How do they perform certain jobs? But nope, the only thing sighted people are interested in is how we use the bathroom. Because "of course", that's the only relevant thing blind people do in their lives, right?! It's like if the ONLY thing white people were interested in about black people was how they find clothes that work well with their skin tone (implying black people have no bigger problems in their lives than shopping clothes).
But that's actually not the thing that made me really hurt and angry. What really brought me over the edge was a comment - not just any comment but THE TOP COMMENT - which read "taste test". Again, this is a comment I've seen thousands of times before on reddit. Lots of sighted people seem to find it awfully humorous. I don't. When I replied with "Ah yes, casual ableism, how funny /s" (meant in a sarcastic way), the guy got angry and told me to stop being a pussy and "take a fucking joke".
Although I've seen this type of comment many times before and I had always felt hurt by it, it was only today that I suddenly understood WHAT about it exactly makes me feel upset. When people say that blind people need to eat their own feces to figure out if their ass is clean, they're essentially saying that being blind is equivalent to being stupid. Simply because I'm blind, I'm now casually compared to the guy who sits on the streetcorner licking his own elbow and drawing pictures into his shit. This is one of the oldest stereotypes about blind people. Just like people used to think every black person is a criminal, they apparently still think that every blind person is a moron. Or at least they like to casually joke about this cliché.
Perhaps the worst part about it is the gaslighting though. If, as a blind guy, I dare to speak up and express my offense, I'm told to shut up, not be a wuss and take a "harmless" joke.
Now, let's turn this into a different form of discrimination for a moment:
Person A: The reason ni**ers have such big dicks is because they don't have a brain!
Person B: Woah dude, that's really insulting! Stop saying shit like that!
Person A: OMG stop being such a pussy and take a joke, it's really not a big deal!
Person A sounds like a giant, racist piece of shit, no?? If someone acted this way on reddit, they would no doubt be downvoted into oblivion and probably be banned, at least temporarily.
And obviously, that's how it should be. Yet, when it's about disabled and especially blind people, both discriminatory jokes and gaslighting are not only accepted but even upvoted, so they become top comments. My remark of offense was downvoted, by the way.
I have made similarly disturbing experiences offline. For example my older brother is an insufferable ableist. He considers himself progressive and even a feminist, never makes sexist, racist or anti-LGBT comments but some of the things he's said to me are truly shocking. There are things he said to me 15 or 20 years ago and I still remember them because they hurt me so much. Yet, every single time I tried to talk about it with my parents or my sister, I get the same reaction: "oh c'mon, don't be so uptight. You know he's only joking. You need to grow up and be a little relaxed about these things." So, essentially my brother can say ANYTHING to me, I can't expect compassion, let alone support from the rest of my family. Even my best friend (who is sighted) once told me to loosen up about these things when he was drunk and his tongue became loose. Literally the ONLY person I know who understands me in this regard is my wife. She's also able-bodied but she's got a lot of empathy.
Anyway, is it just me or do you also feel like able-bodied people take ableism far more lightly? Other forms of discrimination are considered a huge deal (which is good!) but ableist remarks are usually disregarded as "casual jokes". Why is this? It makes me so frustrated and depressed. I've tried explaining my frustration to sighted people (such as my parents) but they wouldn't even listen. They pretend to listen and at the end of my explanation they say something like: "yes, yes, I understand you're upset but that's why you should stop being so over-sensitive about harmless jokes." Ugh.
MaplePaws 14 points 1y ago
I am still new to my vision problems which while very problematic are not to the point of being legally blind. But I was born disabled, and I unfortunately agree that it really is true that ableism is the discrimination that is taken the least serious and it definitely is not limited to just jokes which honestly are incredibly ableist most of the time.
One of the things I am most sick of is the fact that we are inspirational for living a normal life. I am not amazing because I climbed a set of stairs, nor is a woman inspirational for voting or a person of colour for having a job. It would be one thing if we were talking about a person getting their Doctorate or some other actual achievement. Honestly parents of disabled children, especially Autistic children are the worst for this.
Actually parents of Autistic youth lead into another main gripe of mine, the fact that we are the one group it is socially accepted that "Allies" have more of a say in our representation than the disabled individuals themselves. Imagine if white women were dictating how to act around people of colour and what language should be used. Or a cis-male telling a male to female trans person that to participate in certain activities they need to carry a specific item outing them as trans(speaking of the stupid Halloween blue bucket thing here).
Far to often I am accused of being racist or sexist for being frustrated about how representation in media only matters until it is disability by people of other minorities while they simultaneously make very ablest comments or actions getting offended when I point them out. I am glad that the other minorities are seeing some outrage for the many injustices they experience, and that some real changes seem to be in the works. But time and again the fact that I have not participated in protests, or advocated in the way they feel appropriate even if the reasons for not is because of inaccessibility or other societal barriers I am the problem. I might just be surrounded by individuals who are assholes completely independent of them being part of one or more minorities, but it remains my experience with the matter.
One of the things I am most sick of is the fact that we are inspirational for living a normal life. I am not amazing because I climbed a set of stairs, nor is a woman inspirational for voting or a person of colour for having a job. It would be one thing if we were talking about a person getting their Doctorate or some other actual achievement. Honestly parents of disabled children, especially Autistic children are the worst for this.
Actually parents of Autistic youth lead into another main gripe of mine, the fact that we are the one group it is socially accepted that "Allies" have more of a say in our representation than the disabled individuals themselves. Imagine if white women were dictating how to act around people of colour and what language should be used. Or a cis-male telling a male to female trans person that to participate in certain activities they need to carry a specific item outing them as trans(speaking of the stupid Halloween blue bucket thing here).
Far to often I am accused of being racist or sexist for being frustrated about how representation in media only matters until it is disability by people of other minorities while they simultaneously make very ablest comments or actions getting offended when I point them out. I am glad that the other minorities are seeing some outrage for the many injustices they experience, and that some real changes seem to be in the works. But time and again the fact that I have not participated in protests, or advocated in the way they feel appropriate even if the reasons for not is because of inaccessibility or other societal barriers I am the problem. I might just be surrounded by individuals who are assholes completely independent of them being part of one or more minorities, but it remains my experience with the matter.
Iamheno 3 points 1y ago
May I use quotes from your comment in a paper I am writing for my Psycho-Social Aspects of Disability course I’m currently enrolled in for my MA as a Vision Rehabilitation Therapist? I’m getting sick of pointing I am a person with blindness, and would like to share others opinions.
MaplePaws 2 points 1y ago
Sure. If you need me to I can go through and edit the grammatical and spelling errors. Or if you need anything from me feel free to ask
Iamheno 2 points 1y ago
Thank you
GaelicCat 10 points 1y ago
I'm not blind, I lurk here cause my son has vision loss, but I am a wheelchair user. I play video games and one particular meme uses wheelchairs when a class is thought of as bad and I hate it. I spoke out against one recently on the FFXIV subreddit and got the same kind of "it's just a joke" responses, but there were a few other wheelchair users voicing their discomfort too. I think non-disabled people don't even consider how it makes us feel.
guitarandbooks 9 points 1y ago
I lost my sight as a teen and although they were supposed to restore my vision, the eye surgeries failed in the end. In high school, college, and at a couple jobs I've had in the past, I've overheard people saying some really out of line things in relation to my blindness.
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While I dated girls without disabilities, I did date a girl who was hearing impaired and a girl that had albinism. I also taught a few students who had epilepsy and autism.
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In all of these cases, I heard things that you would never say about, or never assume about, somebody who's Latino, black, Asian, gay, etc. I mean really ignorant ass shit here. I don't get it. Do people think they have some sort of pass? Like it's fine to insult somebody or believe some stereotype because somebody having a disability is somehow funny? I don't understand it.
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I have no other issues besides my blindness and I'm a college graduate but I've been in situations where I've been turned down for jobs, apartments, band auditions, you name it and it just seems like we're supposed to be fine with it and walk out the door. I even spoke to a lawyer about a couple of these incidents and he said I didn't have much of a case. Okay so you can deny somebody a job or a place to live because they are blind but if you did it because they were black, your ass would be dragged into court. (as it should be.)
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Finally, the thing that really frustrates me is that I've tried talking to people who have also faced discrimination thinking somebody would understand and be on my side... Nope! I was told that it wasn't right, but, I don't know how it feels to really be discriminated against because racial discrimination is serious. What the fuck does that even mean? This isn't a freaking contest.
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While I dated girls without disabilities, I did date a girl who was hearing impaired and a girl that had albinism. I also taught a few students who had epilepsy and autism.
​
In all of these cases, I heard things that you would never say about, or never assume about, somebody who's Latino, black, Asian, gay, etc. I mean really ignorant ass shit here. I don't get it. Do people think they have some sort of pass? Like it's fine to insult somebody or believe some stereotype because somebody having a disability is somehow funny? I don't understand it.
​
I have no other issues besides my blindness and I'm a college graduate but I've been in situations where I've been turned down for jobs, apartments, band auditions, you name it and it just seems like we're supposed to be fine with it and walk out the door. I even spoke to a lawyer about a couple of these incidents and he said I didn't have much of a case. Okay so you can deny somebody a job or a place to live because they are blind but if you did it because they were black, your ass would be dragged into court. (as it should be.)
​
Finally, the thing that really frustrates me is that I've tried talking to people who have also faced discrimination thinking somebody would understand and be on my side... Nope! I was told that it wasn't right, but, I don't know how it feels to really be discriminated against because racial discrimination is serious. What the fuck does that even mean? This isn't a freaking contest.
Iamheno 2 points 1y ago
May I use quotes from your comment in a paper I am writing for my Psycho-Social Aspects of Disability course I’m currently enrolled in for my MA as a Vision Rehabilitation Therapist? I’m getting sick of pointing I am a person with blindness, and would like to share others opinions.
You know what really sucks about your example is ADA says we can’t be denied employment based on our disability without ‘reasonable accommodation’ but how can you prove beyond doubt you were turned down because of your disabilit? They’ll always find some other excuse.
You know what really sucks about your example is ADA says we can’t be denied employment based on our disability without ‘reasonable accommodation’ but how can you prove beyond doubt you were turned down because of your disabilit? They’ll always find some other excuse.
[deleted] 8 points 1y ago
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Iamheno 2 points 1y ago
>May I use quotes from your comment in a paper I am writing for my Psycho-Social Aspects of Disability course I’m currently enrolled in for my MA as a Vision Rehabilitation Therapist? I’m getting sick of pointing I am a person with blindness, and would like to share others opinions.
[deleted] 1 points 1y ago
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Iamheno 0 points 1y ago
Thank you
Tarnagona 7 points 1y ago
Unfortunately, people don’t have the same kind of awareness of ableism as they do about sexism, racism, &c. But I think that’s why we ought to speak out when we see it (assuming you have the spoons). Because otherwise people won’t become aware. They’ll continue thinking we’re a funny joke, or other, even more harmful ableist attitudes. I mean racist jokes hasn’t decreased because white people figured it out on their own, but because people of colour spoke up about the issue.
I think it’s easier to speak up about these things on social media because you’ve got space to write a measured response, but at the same time, it’s easier to dismiss as “over-sensitive, special snowflake, PC bullshit” or whatever they’re calling it these days. I try to remember that the poster isn’t the only one reading, and while I may not be able to get them to see why they’re problematic, I might cause other readers to consider why something is ableist and harmful. At least, that’s what I tell myself.
It’s harder in person, because it’s so easy to get heated, or say something that will put the other person on the defensive. Not that you’re wrong to be angry or frustrated! Just that people tend to stop listening as much when they feel attacked.
I think it’s easier to speak up about these things on social media because you’ve got space to write a measured response, but at the same time, it’s easier to dismiss as “over-sensitive, special snowflake, PC bullshit” or whatever they’re calling it these days. I try to remember that the poster isn’t the only one reading, and while I may not be able to get them to see why they’re problematic, I might cause other readers to consider why something is ableist and harmful. At least, that’s what I tell myself.
It’s harder in person, because it’s so easy to get heated, or say something that will put the other person on the defensive. Not that you’re wrong to be angry or frustrated! Just that people tend to stop listening as much when they feel attacked.
Iamheno 2 points 1y ago
May I use quotes from your comment in a paper I am writing for my Psycho-Social Aspects of Disability course I’m currently enrolled in for my MA as a Vision Rehabilitation Therapist? I’m getting sick of pointing I am a person with blindness, and would like to share others opinions.
Tarnagona 2 points 1y ago
Sure, why not. I trust you won’t take me out of context.
redotrobot 7 points 1y ago
Jerks think ableist jokes are okay relative to openly racist jokes because they think it's more universal. For example, anyone can be blind regardless of race/gender/sexuality.
Unfortunately ableism isn't taught as repeatedly as racism.
I'm sorry you're experiencing this, especially the gaslighting. My parents told me many times to not be so sensitive while siblings and seemingly everyone else walked over me.
Fuck those people. And anyone else who wants to use you as a doormat or a punching bag. There are a lot of them and they won't listen when you protest. They don't know what it's like to be you and few will listen when you try to tell them.
I hope you feel better and find some peace.
Unfortunately ableism isn't taught as repeatedly as racism.
I'm sorry you're experiencing this, especially the gaslighting. My parents told me many times to not be so sensitive while siblings and seemingly everyone else walked over me.
Fuck those people. And anyone else who wants to use you as a doormat or a punching bag. There are a lot of them and they won't listen when you protest. They don't know what it's like to be you and few will listen when you try to tell them.
I hope you feel better and find some peace.
Iamheno 2 points 1y ago
May I use quotes from your comment in a paper I am writing for my Psycho-Social Aspects of Disability course I’m currently enrolled in for my MA as a Vision Rehabilitation Therapist? I’m getting sick of pointing I am a person with blindness, and would like to share others opinions.
redotrobot 1 points 1y ago
Sure
Shadowwynd 4 points 1y ago
"Class" jokes are considered funny because you can generalize about a class of which you are not a member. Hair Color / Gender / Ethnicity / Country of Origin etc. are pretty much fixed; e.g. someone who makes racist jokes is never going to wake up one day and accidentally be a different race / gender.
I suspect the disabled are targeted specifically because of the terrifying awareness - however far suppressed - that you can lose sight or hearing or cognition or mobility at any point. You can become a part of this minority at any point. You can have a stroke or be in an accident or have a reaction to medication or slip or sneeze wrong or any of a million things and your senses or function can be altered significantly.
Making the disabled the butt of the joke is a way of saying "lalalala NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME". With 26% of adults in the USA having some form of disability, it is a dangerously unfunny gamble.
I suspect the disabled are targeted specifically because of the terrifying awareness - however far suppressed - that you can lose sight or hearing or cognition or mobility at any point. You can become a part of this minority at any point. You can have a stroke or be in an accident or have a reaction to medication or slip or sneeze wrong or any of a million things and your senses or function can be altered significantly.
Making the disabled the butt of the joke is a way of saying "lalalala NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME". With 26% of adults in the USA having some form of disability, it is a dangerously unfunny gamble.
elusivespark 4 points 1y ago
This is sadly incredibly relatable. Sorry you have to deal with it. It happens on just about every social media platform out there and it's very frustrating. Even more so when it happens in real life. On the internet you can just disengage but you don't always have that option in real life. I wish I had some advice for you, but I'm not much good at handling it either.
ChellVaquita 3 points 1y ago
You’re very right. I’ve also been thinking of these same comparisons. At the end of the day, it’s discriminatory. We as, blind and visually impaired people are vastly underrepresented. I mean what celebrities openly talk about their struggles being blind or visually impaired? Next to none. We all just need to keep raising awareness and using our unique voices!
kescba 3 points 1y ago
I dont like it, it's not okay, and lucky me for not meeting such people on Reddit!
I would recommend to make it more loudly, somehow, since it should be taken up and it's NOT okay!
I would recommend to make it more loudly, somehow, since it should be taken up and it's NOT okay!
bradley22 2 points 1y ago
It doesn't bother me personally, I just inform people and moveon.
People are always going to make silly jokes like this; it's just how the internet is.
People are always going to make silly jokes like this; it's just how the internet is.
thatblindgirl 2 points 1y ago
Even those who are very politically correct still do not consider their own personal able ism and comments. I have friends who are gay and I’ve said things about my disability that, if it were flipped, would’ve greatly upset them. I think it’s due to a lack of education and the scarcity of blind people. My general response is to look at them like they’re crazy and explain calmly how I do things.
Winnmark 2 points 1y ago
I think you need to relax.
A buddy of mine has a mom and a wheelchair. When she was at the gym one day, a man told her to get out of the gym because she wasn't even really truly human since she was in the wheelchair, and thus had no right to try to work out.
But you're over here complaining about the taste test? Why don't you run with it? Why don't you make a joke with it too? I once answered "I know I'm done because your mom stops licking". Got upvotes and lols.
Just get over it.
A buddy of mine has a mom and a wheelchair. When she was at the gym one day, a man told her to get out of the gym because she wasn't even really truly human since she was in the wheelchair, and thus had no right to try to work out.
But you're over here complaining about the taste test? Why don't you run with it? Why don't you make a joke with it too? I once answered "I know I'm done because your mom stops licking". Got upvotes and lols.
Just get over it.
DrillInstructorJan 2 points 1y ago
Now this is how we handle this sort of thing. Although Mr T would not approve of your bringing people's mothers into this.
God I'm old.
God I'm old.
Winnmark 2 points 1y ago
He would pity the fool.
DrillInstructorJan 2 points 1y ago
Whatever you want to call it and however bad anyone thinks it is, if it's making you frustrated and depressed then that's not a good thing. The reason people are telling you to let it slide is not because it's a great thing that everyone wants to happen. Nobody thinks that. The reason they're saying that is that it isn't really a great thing long term for you to become, how did you put it, so frustrated and depressed over people saying stupid things.
I don't want to preach hopelessness here but people are always going to say stupid things. We are unusual. People will get the wrong idea because they haven't met a blind person before. You don't have to like it, but you probably do have to live with it to at least some extent. We can try to decrease how much it happens, and we should and we do, but no matter how strongly you feel about it, there's not much point in living every second in a pit of despair over this stuff. It doesn't help anyone, least of all you. It doesn't help reduce how much it happens. It doesn't help clue anyone in on the reality.
Personally I focus on the fact that most of the time when people say oh, he's only joking, that is true. I don't think there are many people who are deliberately going out to wind blind people up.
In short don't ignore it because it's okay, ignore it because it's not worth bothering yourself over.
I don't want to preach hopelessness here but people are always going to say stupid things. We are unusual. People will get the wrong idea because they haven't met a blind person before. You don't have to like it, but you probably do have to live with it to at least some extent. We can try to decrease how much it happens, and we should and we do, but no matter how strongly you feel about it, there's not much point in living every second in a pit of despair over this stuff. It doesn't help anyone, least of all you. It doesn't help reduce how much it happens. It doesn't help clue anyone in on the reality.
Personally I focus on the fact that most of the time when people say oh, he's only joking, that is true. I don't think there are many people who are deliberately going out to wind blind people up.
In short don't ignore it because it's okay, ignore it because it's not worth bothering yourself over.
RapperNev 5 points 1y ago
I doubt OP is seriously going to be losing sleep over this but I do understand where he is coming from as it perpetuates ignorant stereotypes. I try not to frequent places where randos speak about blind people in any kind of ignorant fashion in the first place but the fact of the matter is that people just look at us different. We're not equal to them. Not all, to be clear. But I'm speaking from experience here.
And I don't need anyone's sympathy cards... That's not my point. I'm gonna keep doing my thing regardless. But the truth is the truth.
And I definitely agree with the double standard between this and race. Especially the different responses the blind joke and the race joke would elicit.
And I don't need anyone's sympathy cards... That's not my point. I'm gonna keep doing my thing regardless. But the truth is the truth.
And I definitely agree with the double standard between this and race. Especially the different responses the blind joke and the race joke would elicit.
Tarnagona 5 points 1y ago
I don’t think we should ignore it, though. That’s how things like this keep happening, why people still think it’s a funny joke.
I do think, however, it’s useful to approach carefully. If you go in seeming angry (no matter how deserved that anger is), you’ll be dismissed out of hand as uptight and over-sensitive. I’d say a better approach is to start by acknowledging the person was only making a joke, but here’s how that joke can be harmful. Try not to attack, or call the person ableist (even though they are), because that will cause them to stop listening and dismiss you. And remember that with something like Reddit you’re not just trying to educate the poster (who may be uninterested in listening) but other readers as well. At least, that’s how I try to handle things like this, so that, hopefully, my words will be dismissed less often, and ableist attitudes will start to shift more, one reader at a time.
I’ve got no advice for trying to explain this to people close to you in person, because you don’t have the ability to step back and carefully construct what you have to say like you do with posts online.
I do think, however, it’s useful to approach carefully. If you go in seeming angry (no matter how deserved that anger is), you’ll be dismissed out of hand as uptight and over-sensitive. I’d say a better approach is to start by acknowledging the person was only making a joke, but here’s how that joke can be harmful. Try not to attack, or call the person ableist (even though they are), because that will cause them to stop listening and dismiss you. And remember that with something like Reddit you’re not just trying to educate the poster (who may be uninterested in listening) but other readers as well. At least, that’s how I try to handle things like this, so that, hopefully, my words will be dismissed less often, and ableist attitudes will start to shift more, one reader at a time.
I’ve got no advice for trying to explain this to people close to you in person, because you don’t have the ability to step back and carefully construct what you have to say like you do with posts online.
DrillInstructorJan -1 points 1y ago
To me "ableist" means discriminating against someone because of a disability. I don't think making an attempt at a joke is that, no matter how crappy a joke it is. It's more likely an attempt, no matter how awkward, at being friendly from someone who is hyper sensitive to the situation and wants to seem at ease when they're really not. The irony is, the more we talk up how awful and offensive this is, the less at ease people are likely to be. I don't think you can ever make it go away completely but I think you can make it worse, and I think you are making it worse.
I do not want people walking on eggshells around me, they do that enough already. I have very rarely felt that anyone was genuinely intending to insult or attack me about being blind, who on earth would. On the other hand, I absolutely have got the impression that people had been programmed by all this social justice crap to treat me like a china doll, and I do not appreciate that.
In the end people seem to be looking for an argument, as if there's some merit in finding a way to take offence, as if working out an elaborate reason for being angry at the world somehow makes you a better more upstanding person. It really doesn't. Maybe I'm just old enough to be a bit more mellowed out but I don't think any of this stuff really helps anyone.
I do not want people walking on eggshells around me, they do that enough already. I have very rarely felt that anyone was genuinely intending to insult or attack me about being blind, who on earth would. On the other hand, I absolutely have got the impression that people had been programmed by all this social justice crap to treat me like a china doll, and I do not appreciate that.
In the end people seem to be looking for an argument, as if there's some merit in finding a way to take offence, as if working out an elaborate reason for being angry at the world somehow makes you a better more upstanding person. It really doesn't. Maybe I'm just old enough to be a bit more mellowed out but I don't think any of this stuff really helps anyone.
Tarnagona 1 points 1y ago
I mean, being treated like a china doll is another kind of ableism, and “PC” or “social justice warriors” haven’t anything to do with it. It’s been happening since before these things were part of common vocabulary.
Like I said, I think there’s a way to call out ableist jokes without the other person needing to walk on egg shells. Acknowledging it was meant as a joke, but here’s why it’s not as harmless as you think (although I have trouble seeing how anyone wouldn’t see how “the taste test” for ass cleanliness is degrading; the whole joke is that blind people are disgusting and dirty). And some jokes are more ableist or harmful than others. If it’s just a mildly awkward sort of blind joke, then whatever. Heck, I make jokes about my sight, and laugh at my blindy oopses all the time (much to the confusion of sighted people who don’t know me well, I think).
I guess there’s an element of deciding when to speak up, when it’s mild enough to not bother, or when it’s egregious enough to warrant speaking out.
Like I said, I think there’s a way to call out ableist jokes without the other person needing to walk on egg shells. Acknowledging it was meant as a joke, but here’s why it’s not as harmless as you think (although I have trouble seeing how anyone wouldn’t see how “the taste test” for ass cleanliness is degrading; the whole joke is that blind people are disgusting and dirty). And some jokes are more ableist or harmful than others. If it’s just a mildly awkward sort of blind joke, then whatever. Heck, I make jokes about my sight, and laugh at my blindy oopses all the time (much to the confusion of sighted people who don’t know me well, I think).
I guess there’s an element of deciding when to speak up, when it’s mild enough to not bother, or when it’s egregious enough to warrant speaking out.
[deleted] 0 points 1y ago
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