Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Petition to improve accessibility by unlocking Siri voices (self.Blind)
submitted by ivanicin
At the moment Apple is investing only in Siri voices making them better each year, while there has been no work on other voices for years. However Apple does not allow 3rd party apps to use Siri voices which artificially limits the level of accessibility that they can provide.
A friend has put an effort to create a petition to ask Apple to fix this. There is a good video and text there that fully explains the problem and how it can be easily fixed if Apple decides to. Please check it and sign it to make one step to the more accessible world: $1
UPDATE 2: Just for the record I have wrote to $1 regarding this and they have answered that it will be considered by the development teams. So it is not impossible to unlock Siri voice just like some people claimed below.
DISAMBIGUATION UPDATE:
Thanks to a comment below I understand that this might be somewhat confusing to some users that may not understand some technical terms mentioned above properly.
To the most part this confusion is made by Apple as Apple uses term 'Siri' for two entirely different functions. First there is Siri the voice. You can go to the system Settings > Accessibility > Spoken Content > Voices and see that Siri is listed as just another voice, just like Alex or Samantha. The other thing is Siri the assistant which is a system app that handles conversational style requests from the user. Those are two entirely different things and if Apple allowed you to pick the custom voice for the assistant there would be virtually no connection between them.
This petition is about Siri the voice. You have paid to be able to use Siri the voice wherever you want including for example in Voice Dream Reader. But you can't as Apple considers this unsafe. The reason is that technically some app could use Siri the voice to trick you into talking with it and providing sensitive data if you think that it is Siri the assistant as you may not look into the screen but just hear the voice. However the privacy problem is not a novel thing and Apple allows apps to access dozens of privacy sensitive functions as long as they get approval by the user. There is no reason why this wouldn't be the case with Siri the voice. Again you have paid for it and you have the right to use it the way you want. And the fact that this limits accessibility makes it much more urgent.
A friend has put an effort to create a petition to ask Apple to fix this. There is a good video and text there that fully explains the problem and how it can be easily fixed if Apple decides to. Please check it and sign it to make one step to the more accessible world: $1
UPDATE 2: Just for the record I have wrote to $1 regarding this and they have answered that it will be considered by the development teams. So it is not impossible to unlock Siri voice just like some people claimed below.
DISAMBIGUATION UPDATE:
Thanks to a comment below I understand that this might be somewhat confusing to some users that may not understand some technical terms mentioned above properly.
To the most part this confusion is made by Apple as Apple uses term 'Siri' for two entirely different functions. First there is Siri the voice. You can go to the system Settings > Accessibility > Spoken Content > Voices and see that Siri is listed as just another voice, just like Alex or Samantha. The other thing is Siri the assistant which is a system app that handles conversational style requests from the user. Those are two entirely different things and if Apple allowed you to pick the custom voice for the assistant there would be virtually no connection between them.
This petition is about Siri the voice. You have paid to be able to use Siri the voice wherever you want including for example in Voice Dream Reader. But you can't as Apple considers this unsafe. The reason is that technically some app could use Siri the voice to trick you into talking with it and providing sensitive data if you think that it is Siri the assistant as you may not look into the screen but just hear the voice. However the privacy problem is not a novel thing and Apple allows apps to access dozens of privacy sensitive functions as long as they get approval by the user. There is no reason why this wouldn't be the case with Siri the voice. Again you have paid for it and you have the right to use it the way you want. And the fact that this limits accessibility makes it much more urgent.
Fridux 3 points 1y ago
While I agree that all voices should be available to third-party apps, I find the Siri voices quite bad when compared to Samantha Compact at faster rates. Furthermore I do think that accessible applications should use the accessibility facilities provided by iOS and MacOS, such as announcements posted with the UIAccessibility.post method and the UIAccessibility.Notification.announcement value or the NSAccessibility.post method and the NSAccessibility.Notification.announcement value, as doing so not only saves developers from a lot of trouble with AVSpeechSynthesizer or NSSpeechSynthesizer but also uses VoiceOver with all the settings configured by the user.
ivanicin [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Just to note that I fully agree with you and I do understand that this may not be helpful to everyone in this community. But I do believe that nearly everyone in this community does understand that it is helpful to many people and thus may support the petition not just because he may benefit from it, but because many members of this group may benefit from it.
While you may not be user of such apps, there are many apps that do use voices as their regular function for all users, not just for those that need accessibility. I have already provided an example of Voice Dream Reader. There are also navigation apps which may be used by some blind people to navigate their walks. Those suggestions that you have made cannot be applied to such apps. There should be not artificial limitation of voices that one can use in such situations and thus also artificial limitation of accessibility.
While you may not be user of such apps, there are many apps that do use voices as their regular function for all users, not just for those that need accessibility. I have already provided an example of Voice Dream Reader. There are also navigation apps which may be used by some blind people to navigate their walks. Those suggestions that you have made cannot be applied to such apps. There should be not artificial limitation of voices that one can use in such situations and thus also artificial limitation of accessibility.
CloudyBeep 1 points 1y ago
Blindfold and Ears Games have been able to use Siri voices for years. Perhaps you should contact Marty Schultz (marty@blindfoldgames.org) to ask how this is done so you can approach other developers.
ivanicin [OP] 0 points 1y ago
First, thanks for trying to help.
As far as I understand you refer to one specific case when the app uses VoiceOver and VoiceOver uses Siri voice. In that particular case you can hear the apps speaking with Siri voice. This is fine for short interactions/sentences on unlocked screen when the app doesn't expect that the users without visual impairment should hear the message.
However if you want something like accessible PDF similar to what Voice Dreamer do, you can't have the app reading to you with Siri voice in any way and there are some other use cases where this is not relevant too.
As far as I understand you refer to one specific case when the app uses VoiceOver and VoiceOver uses Siri voice. In that particular case you can hear the apps speaking with Siri voice. This is fine for short interactions/sentences on unlocked screen when the app doesn't expect that the users without visual impairment should hear the message.
However if you want something like accessible PDF similar to what Voice Dreamer do, you can't have the app reading to you with Siri voice in any way and there are some other use cases where this is not relevant too.
blind_system 1 points 1y ago
Apps have been using system voices for years, no VoiceOver required.
ivanicin [OP] 1 points 1y ago
That's correct, no one said anything different.
I really try not to be negative, but what is the point of seeing someone who wants to help, not taking the time to read and understand the topic and then downvoting and providing negative comments?
If I was selling something I would quite understand that it might cause negative comments even if the product is useful to some people. But trying to help and receiving negative feedback? Even if I was completely wrong (which is not the case as Apple confirmed everything above) that wouldn't be nice.
I really try not to be negative, but what is the point of seeing someone who wants to help, not taking the time to read and understand the topic and then downvoting and providing negative comments?
If I was selling something I would quite understand that it might cause negative comments even if the product is useful to some people. But trying to help and receiving negative feedback? Even if I was completely wrong (which is not the case as Apple confirmed everything above) that wouldn't be nice.
blindworrell 1 points 1y ago
Not everybody here is trying to be negative. Your comments are just completely false. The blind square GPS app and all of the Marty’s blindfold games use the Siri voices as you’re talking about. You might need to do a little bit more research on your claims.
CloudyBeep 1 points 1y ago
I'm not referring to using these voices in VoiceOver. I'm saying that the apps can be self-voicing using the Siri voices.
ivanicin [OP] 0 points 1y ago
Again I appreciate your willingness to help, and I'll try to explain you further.
I do understand that you perceive the thing like that you describe, but technically it is not correct.
The apps can ask VoiceOver to say anything at any time. The user u/Fridux has very well explained above how it is being done and I fully agree with him. I do understand that you personally may perceive this as "self-voicing". However if you want to really understand how it works try the following - change the voice of VoiceOver to something very distinctive from Siri. Play those games. You will see that there is no Siri voice anymore.
I do understand that you perceive the thing like that you describe, but technically it is not correct.
The apps can ask VoiceOver to say anything at any time. The user u/Fridux has very well explained above how it is being done and I fully agree with him. I do understand that you personally may perceive this as "self-voicing". However if you want to really understand how it works try the following - change the voice of VoiceOver to something very distinctive from Siri. Play those games. You will see that there is no Siri voice anymore.
CloudyBeep 2 points 1y ago
I'd like you to download one of the games and try it for yourself. I can assure you with 100% confidence that what I have told you twice now is correct.
blind_system 1 points 1y ago
Third-party apps already integrate with Siri through extensions that the developer controls. You're asking for Siri functionality to be built right into the app when you open it, which isn't going to happen unless the developer uses their own assistant with the Siri voice, which is a big undertaking and not really necessary.
ivanicin [OP] 0 points 1y ago
I have already provided the explanation above. There is Siri the voice and Siri the assistant. Those are two entirely different and independent system services. You are talking about Siri the assistant. I am not talking about that at all.
Siri the voice is in no way connected to the assistant. You can use it just like any other voice for example by activating the function 'Spoken content' which is completely unrelated to Siri, it is rather an accessibility function.
I do understand that Apple made in unnecessary confusing with its name scheme, but it is a bit destructive to comment negatively on the petition with the incorrect arguments.
Siri the voice is in no way connected to the assistant. You can use it just like any other voice for example by activating the function 'Spoken content' which is completely unrelated to Siri, it is rather an accessibility function.
I do understand that Apple made in unnecessary confusing with its name scheme, but it is a bit destructive to comment negatively on the petition with the incorrect arguments.
gunfart 1 points 1y ago
** edited because brain no good sometimes sorry
retrolental_morose 1 points 1y ago
what link are you clicking? The title clearly reads Apple, please allow 3rd party apps to use Siri Voices for improved accessibility.
gunfart 1 points 1y ago
the change.org link in the post, the one that talks about improving third party siri accessibility and nothing to do with siri voices? if you can clarify how the voice of siri has anything to do with accessbility in 3rd party apps, i will happily remove my comment
ivanicin [OP] 1 points 1y ago
There is no need to remove the comment, it was helpful to understand that this may be confusing to some users. I have updated the post to make disambiguation. Hopefully it is more understandable now.
gunfart 1 points 1y ago
i'm even more confused now. could you perhaps explain to my peanut sized brain right now exactly what it is you're trying to do with the siri voice and 3rd party apps because i'm just not getting it. if the video you spke of could explain it as well, please link that because i wasn't able to find a video on the change.org page.
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