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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 10 - 03 - ID#q0hjj8
17
A question about Braille — from a non-blind person (self.Blind)
submitted by bitchyswiftie
I was interested in learning Braille. Heck, I still am. I wanted to buy one of those slate and stylus things and dedicate myself to learning it BUT I realized that the little dots are incomprehensible to me.

Memorizing everything is difficult, but actually *reading* with your hands is another monster entirely. I have braille signals on my tv remote and I can't even determine if it has 2 or 3 dots, let alone the position of each one.

Do visually-impaired people have this problem as well when learning Braille?
gunfart 12 points 1y ago
uncontracted braille, or at least just the alphabet, is extremely easy to learn. you only need to memorize the first ten letters, a through j. everything after is just adding a position to either dot three or dot six, with the exception of the letter w.

so like, the alphabet looks kinda like this:

a is dot 1, k (being the 11th letter) is just a plus dot 3

b is dots 1 & 2, l (12th letter) is b plus dot 3
c is dots 1& 4, add a dot 3 and you got m

this cycle just repeats until you get to u, to which you then start adding a dot to both position 3 and 6. so for the letter u, it would be a plus dots 3 and 6 because it just cycles through the first ten letters of the alphabet.

again, the only exception being w because the french didn't have w in their alphabet when braille was invented so it was added later. it's just a backwards r by dot positions.

i hope this helps some of you that may be struggling to learn the alphabet because using this tip i taught myself how to write uncontracted braille overnight.

now reading it, that's a whole new beast. there are some tips to help out with determining cell positions (such as the corner letters d, f, h, and j) but once you get the positioning down and those first ten letters, you should be pretty well off.
DrillInstructorJan 2 points 1y ago
I've been blind for a long time and much as I understand the principle you are talking about, I have never once been able to figure out braille. The first time anyone ever handed it to me it just felt like rough paper and it still just feels like rough paper now. I've never even been able to find the horizontal rows, let alone the individual cells, much less figure out which dot is where. I think people overlook the basics and start talking about cell configurations without really thinking about the stuff you already need to be able to do even to get to that stage. Sometimes I can do two or three letter sequences on clothing labels and such but beyond that I have never got braille and I don't think I ever will. It's a complete nightmare.
gunfart 2 points 1y ago
It can no doubt be daunting and confusing for sure. I have to stick with it because career goals kinda require it but it’s a constant learning process and I’ve got just enough motivation to stick it out. I hear children’s books are a good resource for getting better at reading braille better
Unlikely-Database-27 2 points 1y ago
Lol I've been blind my whole life and never thought of this before. I always just saw the letters as the letters. But that makes sense. Interesting.
gunfart 3 points 1y ago
Yeah, once I realized that it was simply a very easy pattern, it made the whole process a breeze. I really hope that other people that are trying to learn braille are able to have this information click as easily as I did
Unlikely-Database-27 2 points 1y ago
I'm far passed the learning process, but I'll keep that in mind for teaching others. Its definitely a neat technique.
zersiax 8 points 1y ago
Just a thing nobody brought up yet, but I am about 75% sure the "braill" on your remote isn't braille at all but likely just a tactile marker for something or other.
Altie-McAltface 7 points 1y ago
Yeah. Lots of people assume any random collection of dots is braille. I even saw a claim in a product description for a flight stick that said the buttons were marked with braille. They just had different groups of dots on each of the buttons on the base of the joystick. Don't get me wrong, any tactility is better than nothing, and you don't necessarily need braille if you just want to differentiate controls by touch.
rumster 3 points 1y ago
Its exactly that.
stas-prze 5 points 1y ago
I learned braille when i was 4/5 so i guess it was easier for me since i was a kid. Unfortunately i can't give you any advice because as i said it's just natural to me. My mum did somehow learn it though. She still doesn't remember certain letters some times and asks me but most of them she does remember, although i think she looks at them instead of touching them.
oncenightvaler 5 points 1y ago
You can easily train yourself to read Braille by sight, my parents had to and my one educational assistant who I met like 23 years ago learned Braille at the same time as I did but by sight.

I am totally blind and have been using Braille my whole life. There are two types of Braille. There's the alphabet Braille, and then there's short forms symbols like: and, for, of, the, with, and around 130 others.
bitchyswiftie [OP] 3 points 1y ago
Yes, I think I can learn braille by sight, but my problem is reading it. It's hard to discern between letters, let alone words just by feeling through the dots. Did you have this problem as well?
Altie-McAltface 4 points 1y ago
The key is practice. It will be harder for you to get your hands on braille materials since most people AFAIK get braille materials either through their school or from dedicated library services like Bookshare or NLS. These places will assume you're either blind yourself or have a kid who is blind and will want proof to that effect before giving you anything.

You might try a braille transcribers' course, but that probably assumes you're learning braille visually.

If you're \*really\* serious, you could buy a braille display and load text documents onto it. That's really expensive though. The cheapest ones are just under $1000.
oncenightvaler 2 points 1y ago
I had a problem at first with distinguishing between letters, but within a few weeks of having to use it every day the problem disappeared.
Nighthawk321 4 points 1y ago
Many sighted people read braille with their eyes. It's nothing to be ashamed or guilty about because others have had the same trouble as you.
retrolental_morose 3 points 1y ago
it's perfectly acceptable to read Braille visually; sighted teachers do for the most part.
rumster 3 points 1y ago
You can contact the NFB and they will mail you braille cards to learn braille.
TwoSunsRise 3 points 1y ago
Yes, I have two blind people in my family who took braille lessons for years and years. Neither of them were able to learn it. It's very hard!
Das-Lebensfieber 2 points 1y ago
I lost my sight in 4 months during college a couple years ago and taught myself Braille in 2 months.

I am sure you’ll be able to teach yourself by sight.
You may find this website useful, as it is free:

https://uebonline.org

I also suggest purchasing a slate and stylus (they are cheap), writing and reading what you wrote back over again. This will improve your reading skills.
SoapyRiley 2 points 1y ago
It just takes practice. It took me about 2 months before I could actually read books in Braille and I’m still very very slow 6 months later. Also practice increasing your tactile awareness. Close your eyes and feel things that have subtle textures. Comparing fabrics on your clothes is a good way to start. No 2 tshirts truly feel the same unless they happen to have been made from the same thread on the same loom by the same operator.
BlakeBlues 2 points 1y ago
I'm a braille teacher. It's pretty fun for me! It's possible for you to learn try to learn it visually, rather than tactually. It'll be easier for you
gofindyour 2 points 1y ago
You can Google braille alphabet. Start with the first ten letters. If you have vision you can learn it by sight. I'm a teacher of the Visually Impaired and taught myself the alphabet before my classes started. You can message me with questions if you want! Always love to hear people are interested in braille
[deleted] 2 points 1y ago
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gunfart 1 points 1y ago
in braille, numbers are represented by their letter in the alphabet so an h is still an h unless you see a number sign before it (dot 3-4-5-6). so a letter by itself is either going to be a single letter, or a contracted word
[deleted] 2 points 1y ago
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gunfart 3 points 1y ago
Oh, I see what you’re saying now. Understood!
buckeyes4me 2 points 1y ago
Check out Hadley School for the Blind. They have a free online Braille class.
Iamheno 2 points 1y ago
I’m learning Braille now, with some sight, but I also practice by feel, as my video will continue to fade. The key is practice and a LIGHT touch. Look into the Mangold Method, if you’re really intereste.
AutisticPearl 1 points 1y ago
Seeing as you're not blind probably can't use the tactile functionality of this but try Hadley they're really good I'm taking their bro courses now although technically I stopped for a while because they change systems so I've been debating whether or not to continue with the blessings as is or just stop.
mdizak 0 points 1y ago
I've been blind for 5 years now, and have to admit, not once have I ever thought to myself, "I sure wish I knew brail".With modern technology, I'm quite confident brail is pretty outdated now.
retrolental_morose 7 points 1y ago
I've been blind for over 30 and wouldn't be employed or able to join in with much of the gaming around my dining room table without it. Technology can do much but it doesn't need to replace Braille.
mdizak 2 points 1y ago
I don't know, I wouldn't be employed myself either if it wasn't for the advent of things such as screen readers and Siri on my iPhone. In the past 5 years, the only instance I can think of where brail may have helped me is elevator buttons.
QuentinJamesP89 1 points 1y ago
Do you never have to read in public or read aloud? I don't think it would be acceptable for a sighted person to get by on only audio. That's basically illiteracy. I can still read print a bit, but I'm still immensely grateful my parents made me learn braille when I was young before I had lost most of my vision. I'm still slow, and I still read print as much as I'm able, but I'm so thankful to know braille and find it very useful. I use it for many different things: for labeling, for reading aloud, for playing games, reading sheet music, among many others. Audio is just not an adequate substitute.
mdizak 4 points 1y ago
While attending business meetings and the like, I request that any necessary documentation be e-mailed to me beforehand. Then I have my laptop with me with a wireless keyboard and set of ear buds. I only wear one of the earbuds and the other stays out to hear conversation. All depending, if it's more appropriate I just put the computer on the floor and sit with my keyboard in front of me to allow for more of a personable conversation.

Not having the computer with me wouldn't work anyway, as I need a way to take notes.

Then for things like labeling, there's scannable QR codes that do the trick. If knowing brail is beneficial to your life, then that's great to hear. I've never personally had a use for it or desire to learn it, and I'm getting on just fine with being blind.
bradley22 3 points 1y ago
I've heard this argument before and have to disagree. I can read braille, well; grade one and a little grade two but prefer audio.


People say you can't learn to spell with just audio alone and I disagree again, you are able to use your arrow keys to move letter by letter.


Braille is great if you need it but it wouldn't surprise me if we find blind people being completely fine with screen raeders in the future.


I'll say this though, I've heard maths is easier with braille along with sheet music.
Das-Lebensfieber 1 points 1y ago
If a person is unable to read printed text or Braille, and just gets by using tech, then they are considered functionally illiterate… Modern technology is not a sufficient replacement for Braille.

https://nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/pdf/braille_literacy_report_web.pdf
mdizak 1 points 1y ago
I'm pretty confident I'm not illiterate, but thanks for the generalization.
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