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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 10 - 07 - ID#q3fath
18
Screen reader users: What are your pet peeves as far as website accessibility? (self.Blind)
submitted by flapjacktimmy
I'm working on rebuilding my organization's website, and I want to do it right from the start. I've done some research on my own about website accessibility, but I'd love to hear from some of you who use assistive technology on a regular basis.

For those of you who use screen readers or other assistive technologies, what are some things I should keep in mind when building my site? Are there any common issues you run into that make it hard to use sites? Do you have a specific pet peeve regarding web accessibility? Are there any features you've come across that make sites easier to use that a sighted person (like myself) might not think to add?
zersiax 10 points 1y ago
OP ...while I appreciate what you are trying to do, this is going to send you into the weeds more than anything else :)
Everyone is going to give you different responses to this question, because everyone has different needs based on their particular vision impairment, different tech and different skill with said tech. You'll get a number of low-hanging fruit, sure, but you're not going to get them all this way, and if you want to do this correctly, you're kinda supposed to :)

I can give you a couple pointers, but if you want to do this right the best advice I can give you is to invest in someone who is well-versed in accessibility to come give you a hand in the design phase, or to seriously learn about this yourself if you don't have the means to do so.

A couple freebies though:

​

\- Heading structure is important. Headings are supposed to outline your page, not just make text bigger. Using an h6 to make a piece of text a little bigger is an antipattern, use CSS for that instead.

\- Important image? Give it a filled in alt attribute.

\- Where possible, use native HTML elements over enhanced div elements.

\- Make sure to keep in mind that screenreader users aren't the only accessibility target audience. Keyboard-only users, speech recognition users, low-vision users that need sufficient contrast etc. are part of this demographic as well.

\- Use ARIA only as a last resort, as it targets screenreader users only and is often not necessary if the correct native HTML elements are used.

\- Stay away from AccessiBe or any of its competitors; people who actually care and use these kinds of features detest these companies with a passion.
rumster 4 points 1y ago
I'm an accessibility specialist myself and you hit it right on the head. One thing that I would add to this is MAKE SURE YOU USE ROLE'S properly.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 4 points 1y ago
I realize I'm not going to get all the answers I need here, and that my site's not going to be absolutely perfect for everyone. I'm researching this as best as I can, but I also know that, as a sighted person who interacts with the internet in a visual way, I can read articles and learn guidelines and standards all day and still not really understand the best ways to include those who would interact with my site differently than I do, as that's not my lived experience.

Thanks for the tips!
zersiax 3 points 1y ago
You won't, and therefore what you're doing is a good idea, but it's probably good to either get an accesibility consultant (I am one ;) ) to help you in a more structured way, or to have regular moments where screenreader users and people with other accessibility needs test your work to find what they run into when going through the website. Obviously in both cases you'd need to do your best to either make very clear that this would be a voluntary effort, or compensate the people in question.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 2 points 1y ago
These are great suggestions! I know I want others, both abled and those with disabilities, to test the site before it goes live, though I'm still really early in development, so that's still a ways out. At this point I'm mostly trying to get an idea of potential problems as I'd prefer to spend some extra time now avoiding those issues, rather than having to go back later and debug. Great reminder about compensation though; the last thing I want to do is take advantage of someone!
DrillInstructorJan 8 points 1y ago
Cookie popup.

Newsletter signup popup.

Regional preferences popup.

Live chat popup (the live chat is offline)

Would you care to ritually murder the people who wrote this site popup.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 6 points 1y ago
Totally with you here. Even as a sighted user, popups are the worst.
VI_Shepherd 6 points 1y ago
Improper ARIA labeling (or none at all), too many modal or drop-down menus that aren't coded to function with keyboards or mice reading functions, no Tab-indexing to help with content navigation, poorly organized layout that has a billion links, breaks, and spans inside the main content, so I have to constantly reactivate a keyboard shortcut. Constant painful contrasts (dark colors on dark backgrounds, or light on bright), no contrast options, and carousels... They're nightmares for keyboard users! Lol!
With all of this, all I can say is... Look up the WCAG 2.0/2.1 guidelines, as well go to W3.org to find even more helpful information!
It's super nice of you to have asked the community as well! Thank you!
flapjacktimmy [OP] 3 points 1y ago
I've got the WCAG standards bookmarked! Good to know about carousels. I've never thought about how I'd navigate something like that with a keyboard. Thanks!
[deleted] 5 points 1y ago
Dark Mode, Dark Mode, Dark Mode.

Dark mode is an incredibly easy fix and would help like 80% of blind people. Most blind conditions have difficulty with contrast, and reading black on white is nearly impossible. Dark mode goes such a LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGG way in helping us, and is a relatively easy fix for websites compared to integrating braille reader tech and stuff.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Good to know! Thank you!
Superfreq2 3 points 1y ago
Check out these surveys from WebAIM for more general data.

https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey9

For me though, the worst are unlabeled/improperly labeled controls "link" "button" "clickable" and double labels on form controls or labels in an inconsistent order, (this is especially bad for those elements without obvious uses like back buttons in the top left corner of an app screen)

Followed by auto popups which either don't have an easy way to exit them, or always come up at a certain point while scrolling.

Next would be quickly repeating alerts "ad will end in 30, 29, 28, 27" or auto playing videos outside of dedicated video player pages, particularly those without easily accessible controls.


Not using even basic headings to separate out your content is another big issue, especially common on some recipe websites.

Please contain your ads/sidebars to areas outside the main content, rather than slapping them haphazardly within your text. Common in listical style articles.


Alt text is great, but if you can't for what ever reason, please at least don't leave us with the obnoxious file location/name to read instead.
This similarly applies to any scripting, please make sure it's guts aren't accidentally being exposed to screen readers, it's pretty irritating to have to wade through multiple lines of code just to get to what I want, and confusing on sites like Lastpass.com for instance when logging in and seeing "error, success, error" on page load.


If you are going to have a dialogue come up on a button press, or even just have one hanging out somewhere like many sites do for live chat, make sure that dialogue is labeled as such when arrowing over it with a screen reader, and definitely make sure there is an alert letting the user know it's been launched and where to find it if moving their focus to it right away isn't ideal.

Don't design with full senses as a given when ever possible. What I mean is, things like forms with errors having the input boxes which need to be redone marked in red and nothing else, or click and drag as the only option for uploading an avatar.


In a similar way, try to remember that not everyone is on the same device. Good keyboard access and proper tab order are great, but make sure mobile users can still enter into your edit fields, check your check boxes, and especially problematic, use your comboboxes properly.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 1 points 1y ago
These are excellent tips! Thank you so much! I'll take a look at those surveys as well.
Dietzgen17 3 points 1y ago
In addition to the comments here, contact organizations that provide services to the visually impaired and blind. Some of them have created educational materials and I imagine computer accessibility is one of the topics.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 3 points 1y ago
Are there any organizations in particular you recommend?
bradley22 2 points 1y ago
You could download NVDA and try your site with it, after reading the manual and practising a bit.



I'd recommend changing the synthesizer to microsoft, I don't think you'll like the one it comes with.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Already have it downloaded! I've been playing with it the last few weeks, trying to get a feel for navigating sites without looking at the screen. It's definitely been helpful as far as planning out my site, but I also know that there's a good chance I'll miss something that would be confusing to others since I'm already familiar with my site's layout.
bradley22 2 points 1y ago
True. If you like you can pm me and I'll go over your site for free, I've been blind for 28 years so know what to look out for, having said that getting someone who's trained in this stuff wouldn't be a bad idea iether.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I might just have to take you up on that offer! I'm still a ways out from the point where it will be ready for testing, but I'll certainly keep you in mind later on. Thank you so much!
bradley22 1 points 1y ago
No problem.
Littlebiggran 2 points 1y ago
I think there should be a code or ability to recognize the meat of an article. To ignore ads, extraneous boxes, etc. Too much time is wasted explaining everything on the screen. This would have to be impeded in all websites. Messy websites with a hundred click bait ads is awful.

Edit: The rest is trying to read and use computers generally, not readers. I'm reading with my face two inches from my phone.

For VI, Microsoft should shell out a few pennies for extra large pointers etc. Maybe we are small in number, but if we developed a universal way of useful website structure, universal keyboard, reader, magnifier, speed of reader etc we could operate as fast as anyone.

So far, I see things provided to the blind very piecemeal by many private companies or organizations but I don't see working together.

The dead have very different situations. United by eyes and sign allows them to develop a noisy opinionated, demanding group. VI is individual, lonely, and is my humble opinion, subject to the mercy or goodwill of others.

I just became blind. I need more information at the fingertips and ears, easy button identification. Shortcuts. Accessibility from the moment we turned it on.

A screen is pretty useless no matter how big unless it is super-close. Even then, I am constantly moving my head and eyes to read or find, for example, the menus at the top of a MS Office document.

Sorry. Those are my peeves of the month. If this isn't what you need.
flapjacktimmy [OP] 3 points 1y ago
This is great! Thanks for the response. I can't do anything about Microsoft or the internet as a whole, but things like easy-to-find menus, buttons, and shortcuts are things I can implement on my own website. I can't do much, but maybe I can take a step towards making VI a little less individual and lonely, even just in my own little corner of the internet!
kelpangler 2 points 1y ago
Hi, I’m not much of a Windows user but I know there are magnification settings you can turn on. They allow you to zoom around the screen and make your it larger when you need it. Also, there are settings for the cursor so you can customize the size, color, and contrast. These are things I’ve fine-tuned on my computer. Hope that helps!
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