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Audio Description Erases People of Color (bitchmedia.org)
submitted by rkingett
DrillInstructorJan 10 points 1y ago
Well then my everyday life erases everyone I meet. Headlines like that make people feel victimised when they aren't.
But honestly, making race a subject of the AD when it isn't relevant to the story just comes off as political point making. It shines a spotlight on people in a way that I wouldn't ever want a spotlight shone on me. There already isn't enough time to get over all the info we would ideally like, and I don't want that made even worse.
Describing people in general is nice when there's time, and sure, if you're going over what the characters look like include it there, but honestly, this is almost always going to be the least important thing in a scene. And if we're pretending it isn't... why?
But honestly, making race a subject of the AD when it isn't relevant to the story just comes off as political point making. It shines a spotlight on people in a way that I wouldn't ever want a spotlight shone on me. There already isn't enough time to get over all the info we would ideally like, and I don't want that made even worse.
Describing people in general is nice when there's time, and sure, if you're going over what the characters look like include it there, but honestly, this is almost always going to be the least important thing in a scene. And if we're pretending it isn't... why?
rkingett [OP] 1 points 1y ago
The article clearly explains why.
DrillInstructorJan 5 points 1y ago
I don't think it explains much. Like a lot of essays on this subject, it makes a lot of unsubstantiated claims about how people in general think about race which I think are a lot less true than people often say they are. It's full of really huge generalisations which nobody would put up with normally.
There seems to be this idea that the way to make the world fairer is to constantly claim the world isn't fair, as if you get some sort of purity points every time you talk up how awful everything is. All this does is stoke up exactly the kind of division we're trying to avoid.
But as far as audio description goes, if there isn't time to describe essential plot points then ethnicity is way down the list. Even if you still want to single certain people out for special consideration, bear in mind that once you claim those people are somehow different, you don't get to control society's views about what those differences are or how much they matter, and you might want to give some thought as to where this ends up.
There seems to be this idea that the way to make the world fairer is to constantly claim the world isn't fair, as if you get some sort of purity points every time you talk up how awful everything is. All this does is stoke up exactly the kind of division we're trying to avoid.
But as far as audio description goes, if there isn't time to describe essential plot points then ethnicity is way down the list. Even if you still want to single certain people out for special consideration, bear in mind that once you claim those people are somehow different, you don't get to control society's views about what those differences are or how much they matter, and you might want to give some thought as to where this ends up.
rkingett [OP] 2 points 1y ago
I have given it much thought, it's normalizing people of color. I'm not the only one, either, given that Thomas and others are pushing for the same thing.
ukifrit 0 points 1y ago
not ever bothering to find time to describe people's skin collour is also a political statement.
DrillInstructorJan 4 points 1y ago
No more than describing the colour of their socks.
The problem is that you can reach any conclusion you want. Mention it, you're pointing a finger at people. Don't mention it, you're ignoring them. You need to be really careful you aren't just following a political crowd with this stuff, and saying things that are popular right now but might not have great outcomes in the long term.
Do we want to push the idea that having people in movies who aren't white, or who are disabled, or women in jobs done traditionally by guys, or anything else, is somehow unusual or worthy of note? I don't think we do.
The problem is that you can reach any conclusion you want. Mention it, you're pointing a finger at people. Don't mention it, you're ignoring them. You need to be really careful you aren't just following a political crowd with this stuff, and saying things that are popular right now but might not have great outcomes in the long term.
Do we want to push the idea that having people in movies who aren't white, or who are disabled, or women in jobs done traditionally by guys, or anything else, is somehow unusual or worthy of note? I don't think we do.
ukifrit 1 points 1y ago
I don't think it's necessary to explain the difference of socks and skin collour.
rkingett [OP] 1 points 1y ago
By describing color and other racial attributes, we are normalizing it. If we keep trying to hide those things only when necessary, we are making race this weird thing.
DrillInstructorJan 5 points 1y ago
Are you taking the position that going out of your way to mention something, even when it's literally difficult to find time, is a way of making that thing stand out... less? I think you might find that exactly the opposite is true.
You can broaden this out to any minority status, gender, disability, whatever. My dark suspicion is what's actually happening here is that people are trying to get political capital from talking up problems way beyond the level that problem really warrants.
Virtue signalling may seem like a victimless crime until you're in the position I have sometimes been in, with very young people who have recently gone through serious sight loss. What they encounter is a lot of people telling them that the world is out to get them and they are going to have a terrible time when in my experience that is only as true as you let it be. That is what you risk doing to people here. I hope it's worth it.
You can broaden this out to any minority status, gender, disability, whatever. My dark suspicion is what's actually happening here is that people are trying to get political capital from talking up problems way beyond the level that problem really warrants.
Virtue signalling may seem like a victimless crime until you're in the position I have sometimes been in, with very young people who have recently gone through serious sight loss. What they encounter is a lot of people telling them that the world is out to get them and they are going to have a terrible time when in my experience that is only as true as you let it be. That is what you risk doing to people here. I hope it's worth it.
RollForParadise 4 points 1y ago
I understand the whole being equally represented in the media… But come on. Wouldn’t it be better to teach everyone who has site not to judge others by the colour of someone’s skin? After all I judge someone by their actions, personality, and other traits that are tangible. If you are an asshole then you’re just an asshole, plain and simple. What does it matter if you’re white, black, Asian, or any mixture? If you’re nice then I will respect you and want to be friends with you! Heck the person I voted for this year apparently had a hijab on, but being blind I only based my opinion on their points and actions.
It even mentioned it in the article, here is the direct quote:
> Yet, for years the working standard for describing race, ethnicity, or skin color in media has been to only include those things that are deemed applicable to the plot—meaning the film or scene is implicitly about race. When that’s not considered the case, the common practice has been color blindness—a choice to purposefully not include a character’s color or racial identification in the description and assume the default is whiteness. Color blindness is based on the idea that advancements in society are based on one’s merit. It’s a social construct that completely eliminates race and therefore allows individuals to believe they’re judging others solely by the content of their character. End quote
The default is whiteness? Maybe if that’s how you were raised. I listen for accents, regional dialects, and other things that they’re interested in that give me clues to who they might be. But if you grew up in a different culture surrounded by certain types of people then your default shouldn’t be just white.
And yes, the describers opt for more important info for the story because it’s literally entertainment. There’s only approximately two hours for a movie to tell a complicated and elaborate story full of people, places and events.
It’s just funny to me, it might be the way I was raised but this just seems like making a problem out of nothing really. As I said before, it’s important to be inclusive… But also maybe we should try teaching and learning how to not judge someone based on one visual aspect.
It even mentioned it in the article, here is the direct quote:
> Yet, for years the working standard for describing race, ethnicity, or skin color in media has been to only include those things that are deemed applicable to the plot—meaning the film or scene is implicitly about race. When that’s not considered the case, the common practice has been color blindness—a choice to purposefully not include a character’s color or racial identification in the description and assume the default is whiteness. Color blindness is based on the idea that advancements in society are based on one’s merit. It’s a social construct that completely eliminates race and therefore allows individuals to believe they’re judging others solely by the content of their character. End quote
The default is whiteness? Maybe if that’s how you were raised. I listen for accents, regional dialects, and other things that they’re interested in that give me clues to who they might be. But if you grew up in a different culture surrounded by certain types of people then your default shouldn’t be just white.
And yes, the describers opt for more important info for the story because it’s literally entertainment. There’s only approximately two hours for a movie to tell a complicated and elaborate story full of people, places and events.
It’s just funny to me, it might be the way I was raised but this just seems like making a problem out of nothing really. As I said before, it’s important to be inclusive… But also maybe we should try teaching and learning how to not judge someone based on one visual aspect.
TwoSunsRise 1 points 1y ago
Interesting article! I was literally thinking about this the other day when I noticed the AD never mentioned the skin color of the characters. Not really any other way to tell the ethnicity of the person without it being spoken.
rkingett [OP] 2 points 1y ago
His Flipping the script on Audio Description podcast series dives into this more.
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