Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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My 80 Year Old Father Just Came Back from Walmart Furious (self.Blind)
submitted by NuisanceTax
After spending an hour and a half filling a grocery cart tonight, my elderly father could not get anyone to check him out at the Springfield, Tennessee Walmart. He is not yet legally blind, but he has early stages of macular degeneration. As a result, he has trouble seeing the screen prompts on the self checkouts due to the glare. He asked a couple of different people for assistance, but they said there were no full service checkouts open. One of them said they were planning to transition to self checkouts altogether. Rather than make a scene, he ended up simply abandoning his cart full of groceries.
He is trying to remain independent, and we encourage him to stay active and do the things he is able to do. Can a store like Walmart legally refuse assistance to someone who is visually impaired? Any advice would be appreciated.
He is trying to remain independent, and we encourage him to stay active and do the things he is able to do. Can a store like Walmart legally refuse assistance to someone who is visually impaired? Any advice would be appreciated.
etalasi 17 points 1y ago
Not sure if Walmart employees are being told to not assist after $1.
>On October 12, 2021 a United States federal judge in Maryland ruled that Walmart does not have to make its self-check kiosks accessible to blind shoppers. This is a disappointing result in a case that started when a Walmart employee stole $40.00 from two blind shoppers while the employee was assisting them with the inaccessible self-check kiosk.
>Ironically, it was an audio aspect of the kiosk that alerted plaintiffs Morales and Boyd that their money had been taken. According to the court opinion: “When they completed their transaction with the employee’s assistance, the automated kiosk declared: “don’t forget your cash.” It was only then that they discovered the clerk had used the cash back feature to take the $40.00.
>On October 12, 2021 a United States federal judge in Maryland ruled that Walmart does not have to make its self-check kiosks accessible to blind shoppers. This is a disappointing result in a case that started when a Walmart employee stole $40.00 from two blind shoppers while the employee was assisting them with the inaccessible self-check kiosk.
>Ironically, it was an audio aspect of the kiosk that alerted plaintiffs Morales and Boyd that their money had been taken. According to the court opinion: “When they completed their transaction with the employee’s assistance, the automated kiosk declared: “don’t forget your cash.” It was only then that they discovered the clerk had used the cash back feature to take the $40.00.
B-dub31 14 points 1y ago
Ok, I checked out this article and the judge ruled that while Walmart doesn’t have to make the technology of the kiosk itself accessible, it does have to accommodate disabled shoppers with using it. So if a shopper needs assistance, the store is required to provide assistance in the form of a “qualified reader.” The disabled person then must roll the dice that the employee is honest or not. It sucks either way. I’m thankful technology is making life easier for the disabled, but it can still be a major roadblock without proper accessibility features.
NuisanceTax [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Thanks for the update. Which pretty much takes Walmart right back to operating a full service checkout for those unable to use the scan and go. Hopefully the court’s judgment ensures that the speed of checkout is the same for disabled people. Otherwise, they will be standing there with melted ice cream dripping out of their carts.
B-dub31 1 points 1y ago
Yeah, I agree that this not an optimal solution. If Walmart really wants to reduce labor hours and human contact (ie squeeze out every cent of profit possible), then making the kiosks accessible would make the most sense. High contrast mode, large font, audio cues would make things much easier.
Myself, I can navigate mostly by sight and I have some usable vision in near the top of my visual field. The kiosks with the larger screens are OK for me, but the payment terminals are nearly impossible for more than just inserting my card and clicking the green button. And I'm fairly tech savvy. I can imagine it was daunting for your grandfather. I suggest you contact the store manager and Walmart corporate and make this issue known. The store is supposed to provide accommodations, so some employees might need some not so gentle retraining on procedure and common courtesy.
Myself, I can navigate mostly by sight and I have some usable vision in near the top of my visual field. The kiosks with the larger screens are OK for me, but the payment terminals are nearly impossible for more than just inserting my card and clicking the green button. And I'm fairly tech savvy. I can imagine it was daunting for your grandfather. I suggest you contact the store manager and Walmart corporate and make this issue known. The store is supposed to provide accommodations, so some employees might need some not so gentle retraining on procedure and common courtesy.
NuisanceTax [OP] 6 points 1y ago
I appreciate the reply. It looks like a store would have to provide some kind of checkout for those who cannot use the self checkouts. Since the regular checkouts were all closed, my father had no option except to leave without his groceries.
carolineecouture 12 points 1y ago
No, the store would have to supply assistance to use the self-checkout. If I were you I would contact the manager of the store and take it up the chain. Since you are in TN the state has an office of disability services and they do have compliant forms.
$1
If your father has a smartphone he can use I'd investigate an app called "Be My Eyes" which allows a VI/Blind person to connect with a sighted person for assistance for things like shopping.
I'm spitting mad on your father's behalf self-checkout was not meant to close people out of being independent. I'd even go so far as to contact local media.
Good luck and I'm sorry this happened to him.
$1
If your father has a smartphone he can use I'd investigate an app called "Be My Eyes" which allows a VI/Blind person to connect with a sighted person for assistance for things like shopping.
I'm spitting mad on your father's behalf self-checkout was not meant to close people out of being independent. I'd even go so far as to contact local media.
Good luck and I'm sorry this happened to him.
NuisanceTax [OP] 2 points 1y ago
I appreciate the link, and I will follow up on that. Although the fact that he has not yet been declared “legally” blind might be an obstacle.
When I started thinking about all the disabled people that the advent of total self checkout will affect, I got mad all over again. My little granddaughter has Down Syndrome, and this could affect her life someday too.
When I started thinking about all the disabled people that the advent of total self checkout will affect, I got mad all over again. My little granddaughter has Down Syndrome, and this could affect her life someday too.
WorldlyLingonberry40 2 points 1y ago
Accessibility is for everyone, not only people with disabilities.
just--questions 3 points 1y ago
The store has to provide some method of your father being able to check out (whether that’s a full service register, assistance at the self-checkout, or a more accessible self-checkout). Next time, if he can’t get help at self-checkout, maybe head to customer service and see if they’ll give him assistance?
NuisanceTax [OP] 3 points 1y ago
I’ll suggest that to him, however, Dad tends to vote with his feet. I talked to him again today, and the chance of getting him back into Walmart again is pretty remote.
[deleted] 1 points 1y ago
[deleted]
FaerilyRowanwind 11 points 1y ago
Had this happen yesterday. First time I’d been in a Walmart in a year. The first thing I thought was about what if I had a disability, small children, or was elderly. Make as many complaints as you possibly can about this. Because they have no intention of even thinking about this.
NuisanceTax [OP] 7 points 1y ago
Really. Imagine a very frail older person, or a disabled person, or a parent trying to watch small children and bag groceries. And the employees appear to be just as plentiful, but now management has them standing there watching instead of doing something useful. Makes no sense.
I’ll make some complaints at different levels, but once a corporation or a government makes a bad decision, they will force it through even if it bankrupts them.
I’ll make some complaints at different levels, but once a corporation or a government makes a bad decision, they will force it through even if it bankrupts them.
lvlint67 2 points 1y ago
> what if I had a disability
Luckily this attitude is likely to correct eventually. The ADA has teeth. Failure to accommodate while providing a public service will draw attention of the lawyers and eventually the bean counters will figure out that the fines are steeper than the price of accommodations.
It may take awhile, but eventually the audit folks will conduct an attitude change.
Luckily this attitude is likely to correct eventually. The ADA has teeth. Failure to accommodate while providing a public service will draw attention of the lawyers and eventually the bean counters will figure out that the fines are steeper than the price of accommodations.
It may take awhile, but eventually the audit folks will conduct an attitude change.
LibraryGeek 5 points 1y ago
The ADA, unfortunately, does \*not\* have the teeth that the other equal rights measures do. The definitions of disability have changed over the years to where the gentleman who was instrumental in writing it and getting it pass is no longer covered by it (has epilepsy controlled by meds). They also really messed with what is considered a "burden" to the defendant (employer/store owner/etc).
BUT this sure seems like a clear case, where they could have assigned one of the clerks to be on the alert for disabled customers needing help checking out and to help them. It's not ideal but it is a way they could follow the law and they didn't even do that.
OP here's a guide to filing a complaint with your local office it includes what info you need:
$1
Here is where you can file online
$1
BUT this sure seems like a clear case, where they could have assigned one of the clerks to be on the alert for disabled customers needing help checking out and to help them. It's not ideal but it is a way they could follow the law and they didn't even do that.
OP here's a guide to filing a complaint with your local office it includes what info you need:
$1
Here is where you can file online
$1
retrolental_morose 5 points 1y ago
I'm in the Uk, so sorry that I can't speak to your experience directly.
Here, the staff would only react in such a way if the visual impairment was not obvious. If you have a white cane, service dog etc, you'd almost always get assistance without even asking. If they refused, the social media blitz, not to mention local newspaper coverage, would do such harm to their local reputation that it's just not worth it.
There was a video of a blind guy being quite argumentative - I'n say rather rude in fact a few months ago - and the public were still on his side, even though he was being a total arsehole and the shop staff dicn't actually do anything objectively wrong.
Here, the staff would only react in such a way if the visual impairment was not obvious. If you have a white cane, service dog etc, you'd almost always get assistance without even asking. If they refused, the social media blitz, not to mention local newspaper coverage, would do such harm to their local reputation that it's just not worth it.
There was a video of a blind guy being quite argumentative - I'n say rather rude in fact a few months ago - and the public were still on his side, even though he was being a total arsehole and the shop staff dicn't actually do anything objectively wrong.
NuisanceTax [OP] 5 points 1y ago
Dad wears rather thick corrective lenses, but he otherwise gets around well. However, nobody at Walmart seemed concerned when he told them he couldn’t see the prompts on the screen. The glare of the fluorescent lights overhead amplifies his visual impairment, and he tried to tell them that. They just kept trying to usher him to the self checkouts. Knowing Dad, it will be a cold day in purgatory when he goes back there.
It makes you wonder how older people in general will be able to transact at stores, once they all go self serve. Different checkout systems, different prompts, etc. Makes a lot more sense to train a handful of workers to use it efficiently, rather than trying to educate your entire customer population so they can halfway muddle through it.
It makes you wonder how older people in general will be able to transact at stores, once they all go self serve. Different checkout systems, different prompts, etc. Makes a lot more sense to train a handful of workers to use it efficiently, rather than trying to educate your entire customer population so they can halfway muddle through it.
bradley22 2 points 1y ago
Do you have that video?
retrolental_morose 1 points 1y ago
sorry, it was a facebook thin that didn't last long. blinddad on twitter, I think he goes bye now
bradley22 1 points 1y ago
Ah ok :)
rumster 4 points 1y ago
Want to make a change? Contact Walmart Corporate and explain what happend. I bet it will help move the policy needles on their end.
NuisanceTax [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I did that online last night. If I don’t get a response, I’ll follow up with a phone call.
rumster 1 points 1y ago
Usually takes a bit of time.
athennna 4 points 1y ago
I know this isn’t the solution you’re looking for, but if your father has a smartphone with a camera, he can use the Aira app for free for 5 minutes and a trained agent can help him with the screen prompts. The app Be My Eyes is also free.
It’s awful that the employees at Walmart wouldn’t help him!
It’s awful that the employees at Walmart wouldn’t help him!
NuisanceTax [OP] 3 points 1y ago
Thanks for the recommendations, I will pass those along to him. Those might be helpful if everyone goes to self checkouts. From what he said last night, however, I doubt he will ever walk back into a Walmart store. Kroger still has full service aisles, so that’s probably where he will go. I’m inclined to do likewise for as much of my shopping as possible.
TwoSunsRise 2 points 1y ago
Not to be that person but is there anywhere else he can go to shop? Walmart is the worst and has abysmal CS. Most stores are helpful with blind people (in our experience) but I'd never go into a Walmart if at all possible.
NuisanceTax [OP] 2 points 1y ago
He went to Kroger last night and bought a carload. They had his groceries bagged in five minutes, and even offered to help him take everything to the car. And since he uses the Kroger Plus card and their fuel points discount, I’d say any price difference at Walmart is insignificant.
TwoSunsRise 2 points 1y ago
Oh good! I'm glad he found a place that's more helpful to him.
goldendragon775 2 points 1y ago
It’s for this reason why I have a W+ membership so I can scan and go, then get the hell out of there and not have to wait on someone else to ring up and improperly bag my items. Technology is good!!!
NuisanceTax [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I’m not saying self checkouts are bad. I use them myself occasionally when I only have a few items. But there are many people who, because of some disability or circumstance, simply cannot use them.
goldendragon775 3 points 1y ago
Not self-checkouts per se. I use the app itself and scan my stuff and then use a QR to end the transaction. And for blind people you don’t need to be spot on with the camera either. It’ll pick it up usually before you can get in frame.
Bubbly-Duck3232 1 points 1y ago
Another reason why I don’t like shopping at Walmart.
NuisanceTax [OP] 1 points 1y ago
It’s kinda our fault in a way. We like the convenience of the big box stores, and we’ve let the little mom-and-pop stores close. But this has been a wakeup call for us. I already buy most of my beef directly from farmers, but now I’m going to source as much of my other meat and vegetables as possible.
dunktheball -1 points 1y ago
When I read that first part I thought you were going to say after he filled the basket some dummy took the basket... Twice in the past month or two I left a basket at the grocery store for like two MINUTES to go look at something on another aisle and got back and employees had considered the basket "abandoned" and took it away. lol. But anyway your situation/story is even worse, not being able to check out.
NuisanceTax [OP] 2 points 1y ago
That has happened to me years ago when I was using two carts. But now that the kids are grown, I’m a one-cart shopper again.
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