Uncle is blind, need ideas for some sort of sensor(self.Blind)
submitted by motoBonsai
Hey All-
So my uncle has had a couple of issues trying to navigate outside of his home. This morning he was hit by someone on a bicycle for the 3rd time while walking on a side walk.
I was wondering if there’s some sort of technology that exists that could warn him of someone coming up in front of or maybe behind him…any ideas? Thanks.
WorldlyLingonberry4014 points1y ago
A cane will serve as a navigation tool and it'll warn cyclists that he is blind. These accidents tend to happen because the cyclists believe that the pedestrians are going to move to the side to let them go by.As he does not see them coming, there is no opportunity to move.
motoBonsai [OP]7 points1y ago
I should have added that he has been blind for 15 plus years, and has a cane/seeing eye dog.
lil-alfalfa-sprout2 points1y ago
I'm pretty sure the guide dog trainer can work with him on this. Also he should be holding at least an ID cane even when using a guide dog in these situations, so that people will be more likely to recognize him as blind (and not just some guy walking his dog)
lil-alfalfa-sprout8 points1y ago
Is he connected with his local blindness organization? If he lives in the US, there should be some sort of state agency under the Department of Human Services. It sounds like he could use orientation and mobility instruction, and a white cane if he doesn't already have one.
MetisMaheo3 points1y ago
Also contacting your city and requesting bicyclists be required to use bike lanes or streets.In some towns bicyclists are required by law to ride in bike lanes,or the street if no bike lane,for the safety of pedestrians.A college town is full of bicyclists,and bike lanes are painted on the edges of streets. Cars can't park in them and a bike route map is available free.It should be law everywhere.Younger kids are excused,but parents are encouraged to teach them safety measures,like dismounting and walking the bike carefully around pedestrians. Also,cane trainers may be available who can sometimes bill Medicaid or Medicare if his opthalmologist documents need.It's only about 2 hours of training I think,and may be affordable.A simple prescription if using any kind of insurance,and may not require another Dr visit.Canes don't require a prescription. Lastly,if he has poor hearing as well,which of course seniors and others often have,there are canes with 2 red stripes,one low and one nearer the handle to indicate Deaf Blind or low vision and hard of hearing(I hate that term.Am I also hard of seeing?) It seems there is usually one Deaf/Blind state and one county office who can help locate resources,like canes and trainers.Senior centers can usually look up resources,cane sellers,trainers and so on from their resource material. A good cane trainer can make a great deal of difference in safety. Simple instructions for beginners in the internet at Federation for the Blind national office too.I think they even send a free cane if you contact them.Be careful,be visible.
motoBonsai [OP]4 points1y ago
Yeah so he has used a cane for 15 years, and also has a seeing eye dog. This is more of an issue of people on bikes riding on the sidewalk and not giving a fuck, hence the need for some sort of sensor.
epic_null2 points1y ago
Maybe the solution isn't a sensor, but a sign. It could say BLIND PEOPLE CAN'T SEE YOU. STICK TO THE STREETS.
vwlsmssng4 points1y ago
From reading all the comments, this is a policing issue. Not necessarily the boys in blue, but possibly neighbours, community leaders or local authority wardens telling people to obey the law or at least ride responsibly.
lil-alfalfa-sprout3 points1y ago
Right, I'm sure if someone posted about this issue on a neighborhood Facebook group or Nextdoor app the message would get across fairly widely
Rethunker2 points1y ago
This is an excellent point, and I'll be referring to your comment in mine.
AutomaticChair94 points1y ago
There are a few different kinds of proximity sensors. One is the $1, another is being developed by a company called $1. I'm pretty sure I've also encountered others. You can try google searches for "wearable proximity sensor" or "navigation aids for blind and visually impaired" to see what else is out there.
Rethunker3 points1y ago
Sunu doesn't detect far enough, and wouldn't give enough warning for a bike traveling at speed. As I'll describe in what will turn out to be a very long answer, there are several reasons why no currently available sensor is suitable for the tasks.
The fact that the article reads "This startup wants to replace the white cane for blind people" suggests that startup is headed for failure. From a cursory review their website doesn't make the same claim, at least not that I've found, but that they're using haptics for feedback also suggests some serious usability issues ahead.
AutomaticChair92 points1y ago
That is entirely possible. I'm not an expert on all the options - just offering a place to start!
Rethunker2 points1y ago
I'm going to write a long answer. I develop assistive tech with sensors. Feel free to post follow-up questions, send me a direct message, or tell me "Stop! Oh please, just stop."
Your uncle uses a cane and seeing eye dog. He's already done a LOT.
vwlsmssng's comment about policing is the most straightforward at this point. Report all such accidents to the police. Attend community meetings. Push for large fines.
And thank you for the question! I hope to summarize some of what I know from working image processing, 3D sensing, machine learning, and also from discussions with O&M professionals and members of the BVI community.
There are several problems that make the sensing technology necessary an impracticality, assuming it's not simply infeasible. I'll summarize briefly first, then go into a bit more detail.
1. At bicycle speeds, a large sensing range is required. 2. Only a few sensors can provide meaningful data at great enough ranges. Those sensors are not wearables. The sensors most typically used for autonomous vehicles are nowhere near small enough or light enough to be worn. 3. Omnidirectional sensing would be required. That is, it would be necessary to sense all around, not just in front the way a sighted person sees. (This point in particular is often missed by sighted engineers.) 4. Legal liability is significant. 5. Identifying objects on roads is already hard, and would be very difficult indeed on a sidewalk. 6. Reaction time is a limiting factor. Even if a threat is detected, what could your uncle do? 7. Machine learning--techniques for sensor-based systems to automatically recognize things the way people do--sucks worse than most people realize.
**Bicycle speeds.** Even assuming a bike has slowed down somewhat to travel on a sidewalk, it could be traveling at a pace much faster than a fast walker. If the bike were traveling slower, it might stop in time, assuming the cyclist is paying attention.
**No suitable wearable sensors.** Long-distance wearable sensors don't exist. There are sensors that are arguably wearable, but not as off-the-shelf assistive technology. And the sensor alone isn't the problem; significant computing power and battery life would both be required.
**Omnidirectional sensing required.** Detecting in just one direction isn't enough. Safety-critical sensing should be, and I claim needs to be, 360 degrees. The spinning sensors that can do this are neither light nor generally suitable for wearing. Omnidirectional cameras for various reasons wouldn't be suitable for detection fast-moving objects.
**Legal liability.** This is a biggie, perhaps the biggest obstacle. Assume for the moment that a weightless omnidirectional sensing device could provide warnings well in advance. What happens in court when someone wearing the device is injured or killed? Even if the device were working perfectly, imagine the arguments that the device didn't perform as expected. But well before that, consider the significant barrier to even testing a device meant for safety. I indefinitely delayed development on a related project for this reason.
**Reaction time.** Assume that perfect device again: weightless, long sensing, omnidirectional, instant feedback. A cyclist could take a corner at speed in less than your uncle's reaction time, which we'll say is 0.75 seconds. And even then he'd have to do something when he reacts.
**Identification on a sidewalk.** Autonomous vehicles have lots of sensors, lots of computing power, lots of companies spending lots of investor money, etc., and yet I still can't buy one. And I certainly couldn't lift all that tech. And that's for something running on flat roads with other cars. Sidewalks are complex, crowded, and clustered with lots of stuff cars don't have to deal with.
**Machine learning.** At least some of the techniques required for this use would rely on machine learning. And not many people would accept machine learning algorithms that are only accurate 80% of the time. 90% if you're really lucky.
There are more issues. Feedback to the user would be hard to implement for technical reasons and human reasons; for example, haptic feedback has heaps of problems. Warning sounds have their problems. Text to speech requires time, cutting into the reaction time.
And to top it off, a lot of sighted engineers who develop assistive technology start with weird assumptions like the notion that replacing a white cane would be good, or that BVI folks should only be brought into discussion after engineering is halfway complete, etc. That's a whole 'nother story.
Mamamagpie2 points1y ago
What percentage of the collisions are head on versus from behind?
athennna2 points1y ago
Have you looked into the Aira app? A visual assistance agent could easily warn him about oncoming cyclists.
Rethunker2 points1y ago
AIRA would only be able to warn of what they see from the viewpoint of the camera. And since they've dropped their smart glasses, from what I understand, the only option would be to hold a smart phone camera.
Also, there are limitations to safety-critical applications in which they can provide support. That's based on what I've heard from friends who have used AIRA, and not from my own use of the service.
athennna2 points1y ago
Yes, it would only work for cyclists approaching directly from the front, not the sides or back. I think most frequent users use something like this for navigation.
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Yes, agents are not permitted to make judgements if something is safe or not, only to provide the user with visual information of what is in the view of the camera and the user can make their own judgments about safety.
DrillInstructorJan2 points1y ago
I don't think the solution is technology. If he's not using a cane, this is one reason to get one. If I don't have my cane out, even if I'm being guided by someone else, I constantly get pummelled. It's not really about knowing people are coming, it's about them understanding you're really not going to slide out of the way, at least unless you can hear them, which you often can't on a noisy street. No, I don't like having to be a walking signpost to the situation I'm in, but I'll take that rather than a pedal cycle to the face.
motoBonsai [OP]3 points1y ago
He is using both a cane when needed, and a seeing eye dog. This is more of an issue of people riding bikes on sidewalks and not obeying the law....he cant really prevent people from doing that. Getting some sort of warning would be great though
Mamamagpie1 points1y ago
Might a hi-vis vest also help?
SpektrumKid-1 points1y ago
I’m talking to some other guy randomly about a sonar haptic wrist band he’s made. I can try to find the link if you’re interested.
motoBonsai [OP]2 points1y ago
This actually would be interesting. Everyone here is pushing the "use a cane!" agenda yet no one has suggested something like this. The guy has been blind for 15 years and has both a cane/seeing eye dog. The reality of the situation is that people ride bikes on sidewalks when they shouldnt, and really dont pay attention when doing so. having something like this would be helpful to at least warn him of an oncoming object
KillerLag6 points1y ago
One of the main reasons that sonar based devices haven't been suggested for bicycles if they don't work well in that situation. The vast majority of sonar based devices have a range of three to five meters. Because anything greater will generally have a lot of false positives. Unfortunately, bikes travel significantly faster than people do, which means by the time the sonar picks it up and starts to inform the person, they will have virtually no reaction time.
I've tested it out with a buzzclip with a client in an area that frequently had bicycles. By the time the ultrasonic sensor was able to inform him a bicycle was coming, and the client was able to react, the bicycles already passed him.
Rethunker1 points1y ago
I referred to sensing distance and reaction time in my response as well. Glad an O&M instructor is posting here, too.
Mamamagpie4 points1y ago
I live in city where not just cyclists ride on the sidewalk, but cyclists on motorized bikes are on the sidewalk (also electric scooters, like Lime scooters - I think the lime contract ended when a toddler was hit by one).
I wish you luck. I don’t know anything that can warn a sighted person much less a blind one a demon biker is behind them.
Back before I had a cane every time on of these demons passed me from behind in the park with signs all over it say NO BICYCLES I fantasized a cane going though the spokes creating havok.
Rethunker2 points1y ago
>I don’t know anything that can warn a sighted person much less a blind one a demon biker is behind them.
This comment sums up the problem nicely.
motoBonsai [OP]1 points1y ago
Yeah it kinda sucks and I think is just the reality. People can say WELL TELL THE POLICE! MAKE SIGNS! But without some sort of tech…those solutions are short term and don’t really scale well.
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