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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2021 - 11 - 26 - ID#r2qdnp
15
Switching from Android to iPhone: looking for opinions, pros/cons/complaints from blind users who exclusively use screen readers (self.Blind)
submitted by orangelimes
Hey everyone! There have been some posts about this topic, many of which have suggested Android is great for low vision and Apple is great for no vision. But I haven't found much about the nitty-gritty and was hoping to get opinions here.

My dad is totally blind and currently has an old, laggy Samsung phone with Android 9's version of Talkback. We were considering switching to an iPhone SE, with the Google Pixel 5a as a backup choice. But I saw one complaint that said Voiceover doesn't work while you're in a phone call (frustrating if you have to dial an extension). I was wondering if this was accurate, and it got me thinking about other potential complaints some of you might have about Voiceover.

None of my family has an iPhone, so I want to be aware of what different issues there might be compared to Android Accessibility. Just so we're prepared to solve or adapt to those issues (or just stick with Android). I'd appreciate it a lot. Thanks everyone.


Update (30/11/2021): If any of you have returned to this post, I wanted to thank you again for all your help and suggestions. I got the iPhone and my dad actually does not like it so far. The lack of a universal back button is frustrating. Having to scroll with three fingers page by page instead of one continuous scroll is also proving to be cumbersome. I'm hoping another day or two of me practicing on it and re-reading everyone's suggestions will help make it so good that it's worth the frustrations. If not, I'll have to exchange it. I still really appreciate all the help and hope all your comments help someone else.
retrolental_morose 9 points 1y ago
* the way in which the phone switches between earpiece and speaker with VO active can be weird, you can lose focus on parts of the screen when on a call. it's much easier if you use headphones or choose to use the speaker manually rather than using the sensor.
* The rotor takes some practice, as does the optimum time to do a double-tap. The screen is very sensitive and that can be a bad thing on occasion.
* It's easy to accidentally magic tap (2 fingers twice), turn the speech off (3 fingers twice) or turn the screen curtain on (3 fingers 3 times). These gestures are all reversable by repeating them, but people panic if they grab at their screen and hear "speech off" and have no idea what to do.
* People also in my experience easily get lost in infinite scrolling lists: the calendar, photos, lists of social media posts etc. flick gestures are great, but learning some screen layout will be useful.
* the "z" back gesture can be hard for me, especially if I'm trying to do it in the hand in which i'm holding the phone. I have re-mapped this to a 2-finger flick down, because having VoiceOver read the screen from the top is never useful to me - I can put the cursor at the top with a single touch regardless. On the subject of re-mapping, a 2-finger left or right is also unmapped by default. it may be easier to re-map your rotor that way, move to previous/next container, spelling error, heading - whatever best suits itself to your use case. Some people even prefer to map them to top or bottom of screen, finding the default 4-finger taps awkward and extending the analagy that a single flick left/right moves you back or forward, 2 fingers moves you backmost and forwardmost.
* Gesture learning is invaluable (it's activated with space+k on a keyboard or a 4-finger double-tap). you can practice many of the gestures with this mode, except for the back one (which turns it off). Scrolling seemd like a pointless thing for me to learn as a blind person at first, until I realised that it saved me "scrolling over" multiple items singly.
* take the time to set up your typing feedback and typing style. These influence what you hear whilst you type and the method by which you enter text. Touchscreen typing has never been an enjoyable experience for me as a totally blind person who grew up with a qwerty keyboard and then a button phone but choosing the right input method takes a little pressure off. Braille Screen Input and Bluetooth keyboards are a useful extension if he's a Braillist or a typist, and ddictation has gotten quite accurate lately and can be triggerdwith a magic tap when a keyboard is visible.
* Also take a little time to look at the voices. You can use the same voice that Siri uses, which sounds higher quality to many ears, than the default default VoiceOver one. You can download higher quality versions of voices in settings, and don't need to be limited to your phone's base language for accent (i.e. you can use British English in the US, etc). you can also set up profiles so you have a different voice when reading in kindle, for instance, compared to reading in Mail.
* There's probably a tonne of things I've not thought about but hopefully this is a useful starting point.
orangelimes [OP] 2 points 1y ago
I'd never bought Reddit gold in my life and thought I never would but I didn't know how else to thank you. This is the most in depth comment I've seen on this! So incredibly helpful. Also, Bluetooth keyboard is a great idea; we hadn't used one before and one of his concerns about the SE's smaller screen was typing. Thank you so much for taking the time.
retrolental_morose 4 points 1y ago
a pleasure, truly. I do this for a living. :)

If he'd like to consider Braille input as an alternative I'd be happy to help further. Grade 2 (or contracted) Braille takes a long time to learn, but introductory (grade 1) Braille requires only learning the dot patterns that represent the alphabet and a few punctuation symbols, you can do it all with 5 fingers) and it means you can type efficiently, speedily and accurate directly onto the phone's touchscreen, without a bluetooth aid. I hope iPhone works out well if he goes down that route and please reply here or messagme with questions.

iPhone's screen recording makes demonstrating things really easy, so don't be shy. :)
Berenice101 7 points 1y ago
Voiceover has its own bugs but overall it’s a good screen reader.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Thanks for replying. Do you happen to have specific examples of Voiceover bugs or are they very general "restart your phone and it'll fix itself" issues?
Berenice101 2 points 1y ago
Sometimes voiceover will stop talking and I have to turn voiceover off and on to get speech back.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Irritating, but familiar—Talkback occasionally does that, too. I'm feeling way more confident about getting Apple now! Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
Berenice101 2 points 1y ago
My pleasure
Let me know if you need any more help
cereal_puncher 6 points 1y ago
I work at a school for the blind. Most of my students prefer VoiceOver. The issue with Talkback deals with its angled gestures. VoiceOver is much easier to learn and master. If you do get an iPhone make sure to turn on the accessibility shortcut for VoiceOver.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Talkback's gestures are a pain. His phone is older so we got an update with the new gestures this year and neither of us has mastered them. Thanks for responding and for the suggestion; will do!
retrolental_morose 3 points 1y ago
the accessibility gesture is enabled with all new models already, my latest upgrade (to anSE) was simple without any eyesight whatsoever.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Oh that's awesome! Good to know, thank you.
Marconius 5 points 1y ago
Hmm, VoiceOver works just fine for me when I'm on a call and need to dial an extension. It helps to have Touch Typing mode on so you just have to drag your finger to the number on the screen and release to press it, plus have the accessibility option set that automatically switches to speakerphone once you move the phone away from your ear.

Ultimately, VoiceOver is just a much much better option overall. It will take a little getting used to when switching over, but the benefits of VoiceOver are all still lightyears ahead of where TalkBack is right now, even with the new version that Samsung released.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I appreciate this! Someone else commented saying it works for them, too, so I'm guessing it was just a one off complaint. Thank you for the tips and for taking the time to respond. I want to make it as seamless a transition as possible and all of these comments have helped immensely.
Marconius 3 points 1y ago
We also have a large community on http://www.applevis.com where we rate and review iOS and MacOS apps for how well they work with VoiceOver, plus the website team puts together a good comprehensive list of the fixed and currently open bugs in each new iOS release. Super helpful for keeping track of what works and doesn't work.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Just checked it out and already know I'll be referring to it a lot. Thanks so much!
Fridux 5 points 1y ago
VoiceOver does work during phone calls. By default it even automatically switches to speakerphone so you can hear it properly when the proximity sensor detects that it's not close to your ear, a feature that annoys me whenever I have to hand the phone over to someone else as people think I switched to speakerphone on purpose so I have it disabled all the time. In addition, VoiceOver also switches to the keypad automatically so you don't have to do it yourself to navigate voice menus, but you can always switch back if you need any of the functions provided to sighted users by default such as switching to an AirPlay speaker,, muting the microphone, or starting a conference call.

One gesture you should absolutely be familiar with is Magic Touch, which is double-tapping the screen with two fingers. This gesture does a lot of things depending on the context, but the gist of it is that it either starts or stops things and is great for quickly answering calls without having to locate a button on the screen.

As for the comparison with Android, I'm absolutely clueless as I've never tried an Android device.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
My folks are the kinds of people who always put their phones on speaker. LMFAO. So my dad will actually love that.

You're awesome. Thank you so much for the detailed response!
AllHarlowsEve 4 points 1y ago
Would you like a gesture list with keyboard equivalents? I got the link eons ago on facebook, and I reference it sometimes when I'm using a bluetooth keyboard to this day. $1
orangelimes [OP] 2 points 1y ago
I absolutely would! Thank you so much!
cebeezly82 2 points 1y ago
As someone who came from non accessible phones, to windows mobile, to iPhone to android, back to iPhone for a month, and back to android I'd definitely say android is a quicker experience. I feel like I'm using a toy that is very slow and limiting when using iPhone. with the various gestures on android I can make calls, send and check emails, post on social media, and send a pic one handed before all my blindiphone using friends can respond to a text message. I just feel as if VoiceOver on iPhones though consistent and stable limits the user's navigation compared to talkback. Just me though.
[deleted] 1 points 1y ago
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orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I appreciate this perspective! What Android phone do you prefer? We were thinking of the Pixel for stock Android, but he's used Samsung and Motorola in the past.
cebeezly82 2 points 1y ago
Do you want to add if I'm on a budget I will definitely pick up a $100 Motorola or $100 Samsung a or e. I've also had the LG Stylo as a budget phone as well. I was in a pinch one time and even picked up a Moto e for 50 bucks with a free month of service. I actually loved all of those phones because again the camera really didn't mean anything to me and despite a few little hiccups with performance I was just as happy getting a phone like that that was 100% accessible than a $1,000 phone that probably messes up becomes obsolete or is broken. My last phone was in LG fin q dual screen which is a super amazing phone and was 100% accessible with no hiccups even with the second screen. I'm a Google tester and have been receiving free pixel phones since 2014. Though I love the pixel stock Android experience I am most of the time not impressed with build quality and have most definitely experienced hardware flaws. However I did buy a $1,000 note for which was one of my favorite phones and had amazing performance. However it bricked and wouldn't even turn on after a year and a half of ownership. Sorry for the lengthy post I've just been in the technology field plus I'm a social worker and have used all types of devices since literally 1982.
orangelimes [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I like a detailed post! Helps me make a better decision. Thank you again.
cebeezly82 2 points 1y ago
I don't know? If you really likes a super awesome premium feel then yeah go with a Samsung. I personally like to stock Android feel and when using a screen reader all the skins and overlay stuff just get in the way of the performance. When you peel back the layers it's almost always the same experience other than the performance issues you will experience when you move beyond the stock operating system. You have to think Samsung and Motorola aren't designed for accessibility their designed for a visual experience so layer all kinds of unnecessary things that get on the way of a functional navigation of operating system with a screen reader. Is definitely one thing that iPhone has right and the same reason performance is always stable. With the pixels though sometimes jumping ahead and getting the first Android updates can be a double edge sword though because it always messes with something in terms of accessibility.
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