Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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Screen reader advice (self.Blind)
submitted by chuckejeesus
Hey everyone, I am new to screen readers and am currently in university, I've learned talkback on my Samsung well enough but I'm deciding on whether to learn voice over on my iPad or nvda on my computer since I have to learn one of these at least to do assignments and navigate school work.
Anyone have a recommendation for which one I should learn for convenience for doing school work? With voiceover on my ipad, it might be harder for me to learn the touch gestures now since I am pretty used to the touch gestures on TalkBack on an Android so I might get confused, though possibly if I work at it I might get used to both and be fine with remembering the separate touch gestures eventually? Also, would it be less useful to learn how to use a screen reader on my iPad then on my computer in terms of doing online school? Or does it not matter?
For nvda on my windows computer, I've heard it is harder and takes longer to learn that then on an iPad or mobile device, which is less convenient.
Any advice? And thanks!
Anyone have a recommendation for which one I should learn for convenience for doing school work? With voiceover on my ipad, it might be harder for me to learn the touch gestures now since I am pretty used to the touch gestures on TalkBack on an Android so I might get confused, though possibly if I work at it I might get used to both and be fine with remembering the separate touch gestures eventually? Also, would it be less useful to learn how to use a screen reader on my iPad then on my computer in terms of doing online school? Or does it not matter?
For nvda on my windows computer, I've heard it is harder and takes longer to learn that then on an iPad or mobile device, which is less convenient.
Any advice? And thanks!
RagingRoman01 5 points 1y ago
I’m in the same boat. I barely learned how to use VoiceOver for iOS and in not sure if I should use NVDA or get a MacBook. I would recommend learning the VoiceOver commands to know it just in case. However, I think NVDA is the way to go for school work. Working on computer makes school much easier then doing everything on a touch screen. I use my iPad to take notes and save files but everything else is on a PC. Some of your class websites might not even be compatible on the iPad. Screen readers on desktops are harder to learn because of all the keys you have to remember but it pays off to learn in the long run.
Kelashara 1 points 1y ago
if anyone here, needs training and voiceover, NVDA, Jaws, or talk back, please feel free to contact me, and let us talk, my hourly rate, is $15 an hour. Let me know if you need training.
chuckejeesus [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Ya I think I'll probably try nvda then, thank you !
modulus 3 points 1y ago
Each person has a different situation. It depends on which software in particular you need to use and so on. Personally I couldn't be paid to do serious work on a phone or tablet, I want a real computer for that, so I would much rather use NVDA. However, other people seem to manage ok. Bear in mind with NVDA you have quite a few options for the voice, don't be put off by the ESpeak default one.
nullatonce 3 points 1y ago
I'll second this. Pc is more powerfull than a tablet. And by powerfull i mean shortcuts, applications, customibility & more.
Recently (finally) got into auto hot keys, now reddit is 3 keys away (ctrl+numpad0+r) :).
Also find out (thanks r/blind) that you can get multiple desktops to switch between. Prepared for work? But it's a break? win+d to goof around. Oh work resumed? win+alt+f4. No evidence.
Recently (finally) got into auto hot keys, now reddit is 3 keys away (ctrl+numpad0+r) :).
Also find out (thanks r/blind) that you can get multiple desktops to switch between. Prepared for work? But it's a break? win+d to goof around. Oh work resumed? win+alt+f4. No evidence.
CloudyBeep 3 points 1y ago
eSpeak NG is no longer the default synthesizer. If you're using Windows 10 or 11, the default synthesizer is Microsoft OneCore.
No-Satisfaction7842 2 points 1y ago
I don’t find that the Microsoft voices perform as efficiently as the eSpeak ones, despite eSpeak sounding like crap. LOL. I still switch back to the good old robotic eSpeak voice because I just fine it’s less processor intensive and more responsive
chuckejeesus [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Good to know, thanks :)
Nighthawk321 2 points 1y ago
I would definitely go with NVDA on PC: Android and Windows work well together. Windows is also just easier for getting schoolwork done compared an to iPad, I feel most on this sub would agree. The only time where an iPad would probably be preferable is the portability.
ukifrit 1 points 1y ago
I actually like pretty much the windows and iOS combination.
It won't integrate so well like an apple only ecosystem, but I can write notes and stuff then sync using dropbox to organize it on my laptop.
It won't integrate so well like an apple only ecosystem, but I can write notes and stuff then sync using dropbox to organize it on my laptop.
retrolental_morose 1 points 1y ago
I use iOS and Windows, too.
Calendars and mail sync through Outlook
I have rec-up and drafts talking to dropbox.
I can control my laptop from the phone using NVDA Remote
Whatsapp, Telegram, Threema, slack, TeamTalk, the Google Suite, Zoom and Amazon Alexa and music are all cross-platform
I have accessible iOS andWindows clients for IRC, my MUD games and offline text adventures
Pretty happy with the combination here.
Calendars and mail sync through Outlook
I have rec-up and drafts talking to dropbox.
I can control my laptop from the phone using NVDA Remote
Whatsapp, Telegram, Threema, slack, TeamTalk, the Google Suite, Zoom and Amazon Alexa and music are all cross-platform
I have accessible iOS andWindows clients for IRC, my MUD games and offline text adventures
Pretty happy with the combination here.
ukifrit 1 points 1y ago
wat is rec-up? I use drafts too, although it's more of a virtual scrapbook for text for me.
retrolental_morose 1 points 1y ago
A dropbox voice recorder
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/recup-record-to-the-cloud/id416288287
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/recup-record-to-the-cloud/id416288287
No-Satisfaction7842 2 points 1y ago
Admittedly it’s been like 20 years since I was in college LOL so smart phones/tablets were not a thing and we all used computers, but I would still think it would be easier to do actual homework on a computer versus a mobile device. If that’s the case for you, I would recommend learning NVDA on your PC, otherwise I guess just go with whichever device you find most comfortable to work on and learn it’s screen reader
CloudyBeep 2 points 1y ago
I'd not normally recommend using an iPad for doing serious work. However, it depends on how much you're willing or able to use your vision.
JAWS is easier to learn than NVDA. It also comes with comprehensive training material included, whereas that is an additional purchase for NVDA.
JAWS is easier to learn than NVDA. It also comes with comprehensive training material included, whereas that is an additional purchase for NVDA.
chuckejeesus [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Ah alright, thank u
pictouguy -1 points 1y ago
As a long time Android user I strongly suggest you stick with Android. Based on personal hands-on experience with all of what you mention Android will give you wide flexibility and support. I also didn't hear you mention JAWS. If you're in Canada or the USA you can also get a yearly subscription which will give you full access to JAWS for about $90. Because you're a student you might also be eligible for a discount. I suggest JAWS because it's what's used most widely and it's something I would recommend to my clients
chuckejeesus [OP] 2 points 1y ago
The thing is that I'm not blind, I use screen readers because I have a dry eye condition that makes it hard for me to read / look at screens, but it fluctuates and might get better eventually so I'm not sure about a yearly subscription. I've heard that Jaws can be expensive otherwise though. But that's a good point about discounts for being a student, I'll look into options that might offer that if I go the computer route.
Also, I currently have a Samsung as well as an iPad and a computer I can use, so I'm using TalkBack for my phone but in terms of school work it's hard to do on my phone so I would rather use an iPad or computer, and both of those require learning a new screen reader system that isn't Android's talkback so I'm choosing between Voiceover and NVDA.
I appreciate your reply anyway, thank you!
Also, I currently have a Samsung as well as an iPad and a computer I can use, so I'm using TalkBack for my phone but in terms of school work it's hard to do on my phone so I would rather use an iPad or computer, and both of those require learning a new screen reader system that isn't Android's talkback so I'm choosing between Voiceover and NVDA.
I appreciate your reply anyway, thank you!
retrolental_morose 2 points 1y ago
I teach a lot of people NVDA as part of my day job. Those with remaining vision find it important to ...
* use a clear voice they can be comfortable with. This might mean buying a license, which might be the price of an annual JAWS membership in the US but far cheaper than JAWS in the rest of the world and of course is usable in perpetuity. $1
* Adjust NVDA's visual settings to both highlight what it's talking about, and the object presentation and document formatting settings to not say too much. Generally those who can see some want the text read more than whether things are headings, list items or so on. Reducing the verbosity will almost certainly improve your experience and reduce the listening fatigue. Particularly section $1
* NVDA can optionally read what the mous is moving over, but this is only desirable sometimes. Learn the keyboard shortcuts to toggle mouse tracking, adjust punctuation and pause/resume speech early on.
* the training materials from the $1 are inexpensive and thorough. It's not the most exciting thing to read through, but in the absence of a trainer to work with you it's almost certainly the next best thing. They will provide you with a comprehensive grounding in not only NVDA but the use of Windows from the keyboard, which is tied in closely to the way NVDA works. Start with the basic training then work your way through whatever else you need.
* Pay particular attention to learning about NVDA's browse and focus modes for navigating the web, it's one of the biggest differences between something like NVDA and a tablet-based screenreader. Browse mode is also brilliant in some office packages for proofreading.
* Find something that works and stick with it. Whether that's Microsoft Office, Google Docs, Jarte etc. Hopping between software that does a similar job is irritating for everyone but can be more so for a screen reader user.
* Look into useful NVDA addons if you need to. windows magnifier has one, as does Outlook, which provides extra convenient keyboard shortcuts if you are using that app.
Just afew top-of-the-head thoughts.
* use a clear voice they can be comfortable with. This might mean buying a license, which might be the price of an annual JAWS membership in the US but far cheaper than JAWS in the rest of the world and of course is usable in perpetuity. $1
* Adjust NVDA's visual settings to both highlight what it's talking about, and the object presentation and document formatting settings to not say too much. Generally those who can see some want the text read more than whether things are headings, list items or so on. Reducing the verbosity will almost certainly improve your experience and reduce the listening fatigue. Particularly section $1
* NVDA can optionally read what the mous is moving over, but this is only desirable sometimes. Learn the keyboard shortcuts to toggle mouse tracking, adjust punctuation and pause/resume speech early on.
* the training materials from the $1 are inexpensive and thorough. It's not the most exciting thing to read through, but in the absence of a trainer to work with you it's almost certainly the next best thing. They will provide you with a comprehensive grounding in not only NVDA but the use of Windows from the keyboard, which is tied in closely to the way NVDA works. Start with the basic training then work your way through whatever else you need.
* Pay particular attention to learning about NVDA's browse and focus modes for navigating the web, it's one of the biggest differences between something like NVDA and a tablet-based screenreader. Browse mode is also brilliant in some office packages for proofreading.
* Find something that works and stick with it. Whether that's Microsoft Office, Google Docs, Jarte etc. Hopping between software that does a similar job is irritating for everyone but can be more so for a screen reader user.
* Look into useful NVDA addons if you need to. windows magnifier has one, as does Outlook, which provides extra convenient keyboard shortcuts if you are using that app.
Just afew top-of-the-head thoughts.
chuckejeesus [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Wow, I'll definitely refer to this later, thank you so much for this reply, I really appreciate it!
ukifrit 1 points 1y ago
Jarte is pretty good, although you can’t do advanced formatting with it. Libre office is another alternative which is quite accessible with NVDA.
chuckejeesus [OP] 1 points 1y ago
I do have a question actually about what's more common for screen reader users Microsoft office or Google docs? I have mostly experience with Google docs but I've tried it with a screen reader on my phone and ipad and it seemed to be working weirdly, though that might have been because I wasn't used to the screen reader as much yet, and it would be different with nvda on a computer. Is there one you recommend more or do they work similarly enough with screen readers that it just depends on the person's preferences?
ukifrit 2 points 1y ago
DOCs on a pc is quite good after you adapt to it’s weird keyboard shortcuts. On ios it’s kinda crappy, but you can do basic stuff on it.
Office is almost fully accessible on pc. I haven’t used it on my iphone so can’t tell about the mobile app.
In short, I’ll use docs for collaborative work and office for solo stuff on pc. On iOS I usually go for scrivener, for literary writing, and notebooks for notes and stuff I want to work both on the phone and laptop, as it has dropbox synchronisation.
Office is almost fully accessible on pc. I haven’t used it on my iphone so can’t tell about the mobile app.
In short, I’ll use docs for collaborative work and office for solo stuff on pc. On iOS I usually go for scrivener, for literary writing, and notebooks for notes and stuff I want to work both on the phone and laptop, as it has dropbox synchronisation.
retrolental_morose 2 points 1y ago
the downloadable version of Office has been around for decades and has better support with NVDA and JAWS. Docs does work, but I'd consider it less efficient still, even though it's usable.
I'll use Docs to collaborate with others if needs be, or to produce some shared material. But i still do big client reports and such in MS word.
I'll use Docs to collaborate with others if needs be, or to produce some shared material. But i still do big client reports and such in MS word.
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