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Need help to teaching a blind middle school student (self.Blind)
submitted by CroceForce
I am a Teacher from México.
I have a blind student attending to school, and I dont think we're doing a good job teaching him, specially when it comes to the math subject, the kid is really smart, he shows great math skills at least on arithmetics, but we re not able to help him out in certain math topics. We had a little chat (they called it training) with a blind teacher to help us with the adjusts but it was more of a "just do whatever you can, I wasnt even good at math and he's not gonna need it, just teach hin simple math", or something like that, but I think he can do much more than that.
I would really appreciate if anone could give me any advice or indications about how to approach things like agebra, geometry and such
I have a blind student attending to school, and I dont think we're doing a good job teaching him, specially when it comes to the math subject, the kid is really smart, he shows great math skills at least on arithmetics, but we re not able to help him out in certain math topics. We had a little chat (they called it training) with a blind teacher to help us with the adjusts but it was more of a "just do whatever you can, I wasnt even good at math and he's not gonna need it, just teach hin simple math", or something like that, but I think he can do much more than that.
I would really appreciate if anone could give me any advice or indications about how to approach things like agebra, geometry and such
bondolo 7 points 1y ago
There is a program offering exactly the resources you are looking for offered by the $1 group.
CroceForce [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Thank you I'll dig into it =D!
SeeSawPodcast 6 points 1y ago
Loads of great advice here! We can't add much in the way of resources but instead a principle to keep in mind.
With everything education it is important to include the child/person who is affected. Sometimes you may provide things that aren't helpful and other times small changes can make a big difference. Do not be afraid to ask whether something would help and then be prepared for your efforts to not be useful in the end.
I was provided a lot of things that were thought to be useful but just didn't help me in the end, and I was frustrated that if I was asked I would have told them in advance.
Well done and thank you for taking a positive step in helping a blind child!
With everything education it is important to include the child/person who is affected. Sometimes you may provide things that aren't helpful and other times small changes can make a big difference. Do not be afraid to ask whether something would help and then be prepared for your efforts to not be useful in the end.
I was provided a lot of things that were thought to be useful but just didn't help me in the end, and I was frustrated that if I was asked I would have told them in advance.
Well done and thank you for taking a positive step in helping a blind child!
CroceForce [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Well, that's a concern I've had since I started teaching because I got frustrated at many things that were taught to me but I found them useful and was grateful that I learned them, there's a discussion that you can make about what to teach young students that may not be able to tell what they want/need (hell, sometimes we as adults don't know what we actually want/need), but I don't think we should go into that matter.
The debate I have in my head is if its a good a idea to push him into learning Braille:
He has been using a screenreader (JAWS) all his student life, and is doing great, he is not super into leaning Braille actually, but we been trying to convince him; on the other side I don't actually know if its that important given that he's been good his entire life without knowing how to read/write Braille, but I'm not a blind person so I don't know if its an imperative or not, or even if it's prudent that I question its importance, at the end of the day I'm not sure if I should push him into learning Braille, something he does not want nor he feels/thinks he need, he's a good student so if I tell him to learn it he's gonna do it regardless of what he thinks he's just gonna obbey, but I kind of don't want to be THAT teacher.
Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated on a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of options. From classes I've had with him I know he likes to be the first in class, always aiming for the best possible grade and with a very possitive attitude, he likes to learn maybe a little too much, he's very serious when it comes to school work.
Any point of view or advice would be highly appreciated.
The debate I have in my head is if its a good a idea to push him into learning Braille:
He has been using a screenreader (JAWS) all his student life, and is doing great, he is not super into leaning Braille actually, but we been trying to convince him; on the other side I don't actually know if its that important given that he's been good his entire life without knowing how to read/write Braille, but I'm not a blind person so I don't know if its an imperative or not, or even if it's prudent that I question its importance, at the end of the day I'm not sure if I should push him into learning Braille, something he does not want nor he feels/thinks he need, he's a good student so if I tell him to learn it he's gonna do it regardless of what he thinks he's just gonna obbey, but I kind of don't want to be THAT teacher.
Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated on a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of options. From classes I've had with him I know he likes to be the first in class, always aiming for the best possible grade and with a very possitive attitude, he likes to learn maybe a little too much, he's very serious when it comes to school work.
Any point of view or advice would be highly appreciated.
SeeSawPodcast 1 points 1y ago
Thank you for the context.
It is tricky as I understand that he may not know what he wants or would like and that does put pressure on you to help guide him (and any other student).
In regards to Braille, if he does not want to learn it that is ultimately his decision. We recently did an episode on our show questioning the usefulness of braille in 2022, and for further context I learnt braille when I was younger and have never used it as I found it was not for me. I do know some Blind and VI people who couldn't do what they currently do without braille though. I suppose it comes down to 1) If he doesn't want to learn that is his choice and 2) if there is no benefit due to the environment around him to learning then it might not be worth it (i.e. if braille isn't a common thing in day to day life then I wouldn't bother). Especially if screen readers are what works for him and what he likes then there is your answer.
Becoming a doctor is a noble aim, but I think managing expectations is important. Certain disciplines will be inaccessible so setting a career path is important, for example surgery and visual diagnosis won't work really, but rehabilitation and psychology have work arounds so it is very possible. I myself qualified with a Law degree but found it inaccessible so now work in education as a Blind person.
You sound like you really care and are taking it seriously which is fantastic and rarer than you know. The decisions have to ultimately be your student's but don't be afraid of them making a mistake even after you have given advice.
P.s. if they are hard working that is no bad thing at all, but be aware that some Blind people can cloister themselves and develop social issues, so incorporating collaborative work can really help.
It is tricky as I understand that he may not know what he wants or would like and that does put pressure on you to help guide him (and any other student).
In regards to Braille, if he does not want to learn it that is ultimately his decision. We recently did an episode on our show questioning the usefulness of braille in 2022, and for further context I learnt braille when I was younger and have never used it as I found it was not for me. I do know some Blind and VI people who couldn't do what they currently do without braille though. I suppose it comes down to 1) If he doesn't want to learn that is his choice and 2) if there is no benefit due to the environment around him to learning then it might not be worth it (i.e. if braille isn't a common thing in day to day life then I wouldn't bother). Especially if screen readers are what works for him and what he likes then there is your answer.
Becoming a doctor is a noble aim, but I think managing expectations is important. Certain disciplines will be inaccessible so setting a career path is important, for example surgery and visual diagnosis won't work really, but rehabilitation and psychology have work arounds so it is very possible. I myself qualified with a Law degree but found it inaccessible so now work in education as a Blind person.
You sound like you really care and are taking it seriously which is fantastic and rarer than you know. The decisions have to ultimately be your student's but don't be afraid of them making a mistake even after you have given advice.
P.s. if they are hard working that is no bad thing at all, but be aware that some Blind people can cloister themselves and develop social issues, so incorporating collaborative work can really help.
CroceForce [OP] 1 points 1y ago
BTW! thank you for you input =D!
r_1235 5 points 1y ago
Oh yes sir,
Blind people can do most of the complex math thing that their sighted counterparts are doing, it just takes a bit of workaround, ingenuity and understanding.
Firstly, Thank you so much for taking so diligent care of your students, specially that blind one, with teachers like you, he can achieve great heights.
Now, to solutions:
1. Shapes: use something called wikisticks, they are made out of wax, a bit sticky, and you can draw tactile shapes anywhere.
2. 2. Complex math: This is a bit of challenge, but please look in to doing math with computers, LATEX, Math ML, etc. If your other students are allowed to use calculators in exam, please consider giving a talking calculator, or, better, a laptop with screen reader to the blind student, provided they know how to use it.
3. Ask: as you did just right now, on this subreddit, please ask for help, to fellow teachers, other blind people, whoever you think can help. Not everyone will have definitive solutions, but many of the blind people are doing their career in sciences, computers and other such subjects.
Thank you
Blind people can do most of the complex math thing that their sighted counterparts are doing, it just takes a bit of workaround, ingenuity and understanding.
Firstly, Thank you so much for taking so diligent care of your students, specially that blind one, with teachers like you, he can achieve great heights.
Now, to solutions:
1. Shapes: use something called wikisticks, they are made out of wax, a bit sticky, and you can draw tactile shapes anywhere.
2. 2. Complex math: This is a bit of challenge, but please look in to doing math with computers, LATEX, Math ML, etc. If your other students are allowed to use calculators in exam, please consider giving a talking calculator, or, better, a laptop with screen reader to the blind student, provided they know how to use it.
3. Ask: as you did just right now, on this subreddit, please ask for help, to fellow teachers, other blind people, whoever you think can help. Not everyone will have definitive solutions, but many of the blind people are doing their career in sciences, computers and other such subjects.
Thank you
CroceForce [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Thank you!
1.- Love the Idea of the wikisticks, I think it will help me set geometry problems and show some principles and theorems like pythagoras, thanks!
2.- He uses a computer with JAWS (screen reader) takes notes on wordpad and such, with math, the reader does not properly read things like "\^". I'm the vice principal, I'm trying to help the math teacher, on how to understand each other. For the teacher I d like to give her some tools so she can set the problems and exercises, and for the student to help him articulate and elaborate on how to justify his answers.
I may be wrong even on the approach but it is kind of a shock for me that there's close to no guidance when it comes to teaching a blind student (specially in Mexico accesibility is not a concern) I would like to provide him with some tools he can use when he goes to high school and college so he's not dependent on a teacher to do the proper research (because it probably won't happen).
3.- I been trying to reach blind programmers, since I know that there is a great opportunity on that field, so they can tell what things they have learned were particulaly useful, what was not useful and that kind of stuff, the blind teachers I've talk to are kind of orientated on guiding him to social studies or something like that, and the kid does not show much interest on studying that, he likes to show he's smart and to be challenged with hard and complex exercises to prove that he's the smartest of the school, he clearly impresses us all with the math he can do in his head and I'm sure he can do much more that that and I'm trying to find ways to challenge him on fair ways so he does not feel frustrated if he can't solve something that was irreal to ask him to solve given his condition.
What are your thoughts on pushing him into learning Braille?... he kinda does not want to learn it.
Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated on a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of options. From classes I've had with him I know he likes to be the first in class, always aiming for the best possible grade and with a very possitive attitude, he likes to learn maybe a little too much, he's very serious
when it comes to school work.
Thank you so much!
1.- Love the Idea of the wikisticks, I think it will help me set geometry problems and show some principles and theorems like pythagoras, thanks!
2.- He uses a computer with JAWS (screen reader) takes notes on wordpad and such, with math, the reader does not properly read things like "\^". I'm the vice principal, I'm trying to help the math teacher, on how to understand each other. For the teacher I d like to give her some tools so she can set the problems and exercises, and for the student to help him articulate and elaborate on how to justify his answers.
I may be wrong even on the approach but it is kind of a shock for me that there's close to no guidance when it comes to teaching a blind student (specially in Mexico accesibility is not a concern) I would like to provide him with some tools he can use when he goes to high school and college so he's not dependent on a teacher to do the proper research (because it probably won't happen).
3.- I been trying to reach blind programmers, since I know that there is a great opportunity on that field, so they can tell what things they have learned were particulaly useful, what was not useful and that kind of stuff, the blind teachers I've talk to are kind of orientated on guiding him to social studies or something like that, and the kid does not show much interest on studying that, he likes to show he's smart and to be challenged with hard and complex exercises to prove that he's the smartest of the school, he clearly impresses us all with the math he can do in his head and I'm sure he can do much more that that and I'm trying to find ways to challenge him on fair ways so he does not feel frustrated if he can't solve something that was irreal to ask him to solve given his condition.
What are your thoughts on pushing him into learning Braille?... he kinda does not want to learn it.
Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated on a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of options. From classes I've had with him I know he likes to be the first in class, always aiming for the best possible grade and with a very possitive attitude, he likes to learn maybe a little too much, he's very serious
when it comes to school work.
Thank you so much!
r_1235 2 points 1y ago
Oops
I had the notifications turned off, sorry, for replying so late.
For advance math, I also use built-in windows calculator, as well as microsoft excel. I type my notes on Microsoft word.
I am using a free screen reading software called NVDA, not sure how to do this on Jaws. But, I am like 90% sure that we can do it on Jaws as well.
But, with NVDA, while reading math or programming related content, I set NVDA to read all of the symbols, by pressing Insert and p, and I do that until it says "Symbol level All". Then, for this (\^) symbol, NVDA will read "Left paren caret right paren". I think you are using that symbol for raising a number to some power, like 2\^8, Where NVDA will read it as "2 Caret 8". This works for me. It's a workaround.
Jaws will have some different keyboard shortcut, or setting for same.
For tools for your teacher, look in to Bookshare and their math reader. Also, your blind student can get free membership to Bookshare library found at $1 , There's some registration process, but it's free, and there are lot of accessible books, so please look in to that.
For their Mathshare tool, look in to this page: $1
​
As far as learning braille, I don't really use it these days, but it's a very useful thing to know as a blind, so I suggest he learns it in his free time. It's not that tough, I learnt English braille like in 30 days.
Again, sorry for late reply.
I had the notifications turned off, sorry, for replying so late.
For advance math, I also use built-in windows calculator, as well as microsoft excel. I type my notes on Microsoft word.
I am using a free screen reading software called NVDA, not sure how to do this on Jaws. But, I am like 90% sure that we can do it on Jaws as well.
But, with NVDA, while reading math or programming related content, I set NVDA to read all of the symbols, by pressing Insert and p, and I do that until it says "Symbol level All". Then, for this (\^) symbol, NVDA will read "Left paren caret right paren". I think you are using that symbol for raising a number to some power, like 2\^8, Where NVDA will read it as "2 Caret 8". This works for me. It's a workaround.
Jaws will have some different keyboard shortcut, or setting for same.
For tools for your teacher, look in to Bookshare and their math reader. Also, your blind student can get free membership to Bookshare library found at $1 , There's some registration process, but it's free, and there are lot of accessible books, so please look in to that.
For their Mathshare tool, look in to this page: $1
​
As far as learning braille, I don't really use it these days, but it's a very useful thing to know as a blind, so I suggest he learns it in his free time. It's not that tough, I learnt English braille like in 30 days.
Again, sorry for late reply.
r_1235 2 points 1y ago
Also, sorry, I don't know blind doctors, I've seen some blind doctors, but they were doing homeopathy or something like that, so I ignored them.
I am not sure if your student will have the same career preference in next 5 years or so, but if he is excited about career as a doctor, I would suggest helping him in whatever ways possible. I personally didn't like biology subject that much, but there are tactile models of the organs and such, you can look in to that.
One thing that might be important is making sure that he always chooses the right subject combination, like advance math or standard math, physics or biology, etc etc. I had a big career problem when I found out that advance math was needed for career in computer science.
I am not sure if your student will have the same career preference in next 5 years or so, but if he is excited about career as a doctor, I would suggest helping him in whatever ways possible. I personally didn't like biology subject that much, but there are tactile models of the organs and such, you can look in to that.
One thing that might be important is making sure that he always chooses the right subject combination, like advance math or standard math, physics or biology, etc etc. I had a big career problem when I found out that advance math was needed for career in computer science.
TechnicalPragmatist 1 points 1y ago
I think braille is very essential I do all of my math work manually all just book braille perkins typewriter, and paper. It can be done, relatively low tech.
HeftyCryptographer21 1 points 1y ago
There are blind docors! However, if the boy is from a rural community with a lower standard of education, he may have a hard time when he gets to college.
PrincessDie123 5 points 1y ago
Geometry has some tactile shapes to help explain concepts, sighted students often find them helpful as well but they are basically plastic blocks and shapes that the student can touch and visualize in their head. As for algebra sorry I graduated years ago and still can’t tell you what algebra was good for.
CroceForce [OP] 2 points 1y ago
BTW thank you so much for your input! =D!
PrincessDie123 1 points 1y ago
You’re welcome!
CroceForce [OP] 2 points 1y ago
When it comes to knowing the shapes we have some shapes which we use, but when it comes to things like theorems, problems and exersises is kinda hard beacause it is important the way to show them so they can solve the problems, theres lot of sources where I can find exercises and problems for sighted people, I was hoping there was something alike for blind people. I don't really know if he's gonna find some use for algebra because he wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs thathe could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to giveh im as many tools as I can so he can choose from a wider variety of options.
Thank you and whatever advice or point of view is highly appreciated.
Thank you and whatever advice or point of view is highly appreciated.
TechnicalPragmatist 1 points 1y ago
I am a stem major here myself an algebra is actually immensely important if he wants to go in to higher level math, trigonometry and precal and beyond especialy if he wants to do stem it is impairative for him to do well.
PrincessDie123 1 points 1y ago
Well I’m not sure but I know you can do carpentry type things without sight there’s a device called a click ruler that makes sound and has ridges you can feel to do measurements so there are accommodations for certain things. But theorems are hard to conceptualize at the best of times.
WorldlyLingonberry40 2 points 1y ago
Is the student a Braille reader?
CroceForce [OP] 2 points 1y ago
No, he has been using a screenreader (JAWS) all his student life, and is doing great, he is not super into leaning braille actually, but we been trying to convince him; on the other side I don't actually know if its that important given that he's been good his entire life without knowing Braille, but I'm not a blind person so I don't know if its an imperative or not, or even if it's prudent that I question its importance, at the end of the day **I'm not sure if I should push him into learning Braille**, something he does not want nor he feels/thinks he need, he's a good student so if I tell him to learn it he's gonna do it regardless of what he thinks he's just gonna obbey, but I kind of don't want to be THAT teacher.
Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated in a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of options.
Any point of view or advice would be highly appreciated.
Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated in a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of options.
Any point of view or advice would be highly appreciated.
CroceForce [OP] 1 points 1y ago
BTW Thank you so much for your help! =D!
Misaelz 2 points 1y ago
You can create a braile-like system for every symbol you want to use. The hardest part will be in the future with calculus and 3d figures and graphs.
CroceForce [OP] 1 points 1y ago
BTW Thank you so much for you input! =\]!
CroceForce [OP] 1 points 1y ago
>He doesnt know how to read write Braille, we're working on that, I was thinking on going around by using the computer which he kind of is good at. 3d figures, graphs, geometry problems and that kind of stuff are what I'd like to have some advice or guidance on what could be a good exercise or what should I expect him to learn.
>
>He has been using a screenreader (JAWS) all his student life, and is
doing great, he is not super into leaning braille actually, but we been
trying to convince him; on the other side I don't actually know if its
that important given that he's been good his entire life without knowing
Braille, but I'm not a blind person so I don't know if its an
imperative or not, or even if it's prudent that I question its
importance, at the end of the day I'm not sure if I should push him into learning Braille,
something he does not want nor he feels/thinks he need, he's a good
student so if I tell him to learn it he's gonna do it regardless of what
he thinks he's just gonna obbey, but I kind of don't want to be THAT
teacher.Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated in
a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the
kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become
a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that
he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give
him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of
options.Any point of view or advice would be highly appreciated.
>
>He has been using a screenreader (JAWS) all his student life, and is
doing great, he is not super into leaning braille actually, but we been
trying to convince him; on the other side I don't actually know if its
that important given that he's been good his entire life without knowing
Braille, but I'm not a blind person so I don't know if its an
imperative or not, or even if it's prudent that I question its
importance, at the end of the day I'm not sure if I should push him into learning Braille,
something he does not want nor he feels/thinks he need, he's a good
student so if I tell him to learn it he's gonna do it regardless of what
he thinks he's just gonna obbey, but I kind of don't want to be THAT
teacher.Something I should mention is that the school is ubicated in
a rural area with little internet acces and low expectatives, and the
kid wants to become a doctor, now, I don't know there's a path to become
a blind doctor but I know there's a path for many degrees and jobs that
he could easily do, of course, thats up to him, my concern is to give
him as many tools as I can so he can choose on a wider variety of
options.Any point of view or advice would be highly appreciated.
TechnicalPragmatist 1 points 1y ago
Do you guys have embossed tactile graphics?
oncenightvaler 1 points 1y ago
I am totally blind and I know algebra very well, through just using my arithmetic and writing down everything step by step in Braille.
I can put together a graph on Braille raised graph paper, with stickers or pins, and then have this wax substitute "wick stick" to place along the lines (also using glue gun)
As to geometry, I know what all of the shapes are, and some of the area formulas, can picture two dimensional and three dimensional shapes. Mainly how this was done for me was I just had to find plastic examples of the shapes and then touch them repeatedly while mumbling the formulas to myself.
I can put together a graph on Braille raised graph paper, with stickers or pins, and then have this wax substitute "wick stick" to place along the lines (also using glue gun)
As to geometry, I know what all of the shapes are, and some of the area formulas, can picture two dimensional and three dimensional shapes. Mainly how this was done for me was I just had to find plastic examples of the shapes and then touch them repeatedly while mumbling the formulas to myself.
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